Gypsy Forest...again

[TheInquisitor]

Hi guys,

For any of you that have been around a while, you may remember a long time ago that I attempted to make a forest backdrop for an RPG battle scene. The effort ended up turning into a right fiasco. I got stuck with it to the point that I gave up.
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/index.php?topic=11912.msg121394#msg121394

Since then, after a second attempt where the file corrupted, I've now gone for a 3rd iteration and here's what I've come up with.




Updated:



I'm much happier with this effort. I'm happy enough with it as it is, but I thought I'd show it here before calling time on it as a piece of work. Now I'm looking for your verdict on whether it's good or could do with some work help to take it the next level because, once again, I've hit a brick wall.

- I've re-jigged the frog man since the original version, giving him a changed (and probably more anatomically correct) pose and a darker outline, to help make him a focus of the piece. Considering this is an RPG battle, I didn't want the character to blend seamlessly into the background. What you guys think about this compared to how the hero looks in the scene?
- Do you find the whole scene too dark and recommend I increase the contrast in the shades?
- Any other recommendations?

I'm open to design changes, palette changes etc. Perhaps not anything as drastic as a complete redesign though.

Help is most appreciated
Thanks
Inq

[Facet]

Some nice stuffs since the last time around, the leafy vignette is pretty sweet. Did a ruff, non-drastic edit:



There isn't much continuity between the fg vignette and the bg pines so I brought a bit of that forward, I reckoned the pines were a bit regimented; all triangles, no trunk or branches, so I mussed them up a tad. I also tried to demonstrate the VP with the clouds too, and took out the trees in front of the sun as they put a stopper on the depth; made the gap between the trees into a clearing rather than an infinite gamespace.

I don't think it's too dark; where it matters anyway, probably the warm lightsource would grey out the the greens more, thinking realistically, the moon from before would be a better fit if you're up for putting that back in. Obviously the characters aren't showing any effect of the light from the scene but I guess that isn't on the menu .

Only noticed later it was double res .

[PypeBros]

I really love it. Yet, I think there's something to be fixed in the guy's hair highlight.
Either the hue is off, or it is excessively de-saturated.

[TheInquisitor]

I see what you're saying there with splitting the details of the trees up, Facet. However, I'm trying to get a close approximation to this tileset that I made.



You can see on here that the trees are very cone-like and cartoony. Your replacement designs definitely have merit and, fairly enough, I didn't even consider that approach. Do you have any midway point between our two shapes that you could recommend so that they may look a bit more tree-like, but still retain that cartoony "pine tree" look?

Your vignette is very interesting. In fact, I'm impressed how you've managed to quickly sketch in some very nice, tree looking shapes. I think your version looks a little busy, so I'll try and make a foreground that's somewhere between yours and mine.

I really like the way you've done the rim of orange on the tree tops. This was something I was really struggling with on the original effort on that other link. I dropped it this time around because I was finding it too complicated. Now that you've shown me that, I think I'll go and put it back in. I'll also change my palette around the sunset to match yours. It looks better and more natural.

I've decided that the darks on the frogman creature are too dark. I'll be changing this. I don't think I'll go back to the night scene/moon though, I prefer what I've got now.

PypeBros:
Yeah, the saturation and colours were just me experimenting with colour mixing. It's not my strongest area but seems to work out. I'll be editing the characters soon.

Keep your posted for the next version
Ta.

[Seiseki]

The frogs face freaks me out a bit because of how flat it is..
The sun looks a bit tall..

And if you can do it without pulling attention from the characters, you should add rocks, tree stumps, logs, mushrooms or something to the background, since it's quite empty.
I'm also thinking due to the sunset, the shadows should be longer. But since the characters don't follow the lighting of the environment anways, so I dunno.

I saw this piece and the titleset when I was searching the forums and I remember it because it's very well done! Keep it up

[TheInquisitor]

Not much to show here, but I've started out by adding some orange shine onto the trees and reduced the trees in the background (in front of the sun). I've also, with this edit made the sun "shorter". Is this for the better?

[TheInquisitor]

Made some further changes to the picture. Added more of the sunset shine and edited the two characters. I think the frogman looks noticeably better.

[TheInquisitor]

Hi guys, I'm back again...



Made a bit of progress. Focused on the sky and followed Facet's example. I have to say, it looks a hell of a lot better, so thanks Facet. I think this is now getting closer to a finished product. It's been suggested to me that the Frogman creature is "a bit boring" and poorly designed. Is that agreed with?

Also, should I add some sunset reddening to the near-most trees and the leaves in the foreground?

[Ymedron]

The face at least is a bit vague and unresolved. The chin is so low contrast, I actually have trouble seeing where his mouth is.

I drew some frogpeople ambhibianpeople, maybe that will give you an idea what you want to do?

[TheInquisitor]

Thanks for the help there, Ymedron. That's excellent! You've obviously got quite a knack for creative poses.

I really like the leftmost and rightmost ones. The left for it's pose and the right for it's design, especially with the way he is sitting. I never really considered drawing the frogman from the back, as if hunched over.

I'll look into trying to make a combination of those two designs.

Thanks a lot

[Seiseki]

If we're talking poses, I think it would look more interesting if he held the staff with both hands, with the bottom pointing towards the sword guy. Sorta like a kungfu pose where he's ready to strike.
Right now he doesn't look very interested in fighting

[Crow]

If we're talking poses, I think it would look more interesting if he held the staff with both hands, with the bottom pointing towards the sword guy. Sorta like a kungfu pose where he's ready to strike.
Right now he doesn't look very interested in fighting

That really depends on the character of ol' Kaeru-san here, don't you think? Might be a calm one, who knows

[Seiseki]

But that makes mr.swordguy seem like a total douche
"If you won't give me your glowing ball thing, I'm gonna slash you with mah sword.."

[Ymedron]

To me it was more that he was going to cast a spell, or something..!
After all, a static sprite can actually be in a pretty exotic pose to best put across what kind of a personality the creature has.

[TheInquisitor]

Hi guys,

Here's yet another update. I've been focusing on improving the background and taking it to that next stage. I've added in some shine onto the trees to give them more shape, texture and detail. I think it makes the trees look less disjointed from the sunset.

After some helpful critique by Jinn (from pixeljoint) I've slightly altered the colours to make the sunset more vibrate and the sky more creative. One particular change I like is how he suggested making the dark grey tone in the sky much closer to the purple. The low contrast between them really works.

Unless someone has something to say otherwise, I think it's fair to call time on the actual background in this scene now. I'll still be open to further recommendations though.

I'm happy with the hero, so I guess it's now time to focus on redesigning the frogman. To settle the little debate, I see this frogman, and by extension all of his frogman compadrés, as mystical, magical druid folk. I don't think a kung fu action pose would best represent their style. However, I think that arched, over the shoulder pose that Ymedron sketched up is definitely fitting for the creature.

Just for the record, Seiseki, this frogman is pure evil. We're talking the Hitler of frogs.

[TheInquisitor]

Hi guys,

Another update, this time I've tackled the frogman! I've followed Ymedron's designs by taking the pose of one and the general body shape of another. The legs are splayed out in that frog-like squat. I certainly prefer this one for readability. It's clearly a frog this time around.



What do you guys think about him?
And also, what do you think of the scene as a whole now?

[Ymedron]

Yes, it really is quite froggy now.
What about making him brown?

He might be more fun to look at if he had some kind of patterns like here, also it'd make him stand out from all the other frogs in fiction (they commonly seem to be green and patternless).
Hm, wonder if you should show the other hand with the spell, or maybe switch the staff into the other hand so the more visible hand can be there to show off the magic.
Making a small hole in between the arm and the body (so the silhouette has a small hole in it) might also help the clarity of the pose. :3c

[TheInquisitor]

I think patterns would become extremely difficult to pixel up because the details would leave it looking cluttered. However, here's a re-colored effort to give him some more earthy, brown tones. 



He probably fits into the scene more convincingly now as well.

[Ymedron]

Yes, he looks better now. Though I wonder if giving him dark areas around his eyes+stripes on his legs would clutter him that much..?
But the browner color + the hue changes make him stand out and fit in at the same time, it's... Magical even.

[HarveyDentMustDie]

Maybe, frogman should be in more aggressive stance like the other character. Right now he looks very calm and not very interested in boy with sword. For me that kinda ruins "battle anticipation" feeling.

Btw, your last update is best so far. Your work is amazing. I admire your "pixeling" skill. 

[Ymedron]

Well, maybe Im biased because he chose a pose I drew for it but...

I don't think every enemy has to be like all "RAR IM GONNA EET UU" I mean, sometimes you just get a situation where the enemy isn't all KUNG FU ATTACK GO at you. For example, if the enemy is super confident or if their fighting style doesn't depend on physical attacks. I could imagine a wizard standing around looking calm while preparing their deathly strong magic. That's why the frogman would probably need to show it clearer that he's going to cast something at you.

Or you surprised them. The problem is that in most games you fight random animals and creatures of the forest, and it's a bit ambiguous whether they deserve it or not. How many crows and tigermen are you entitled to kill before you are committing genocide?

HRM. It's a more guarded pose, as well as shows off the frogginess of the character (as most of the time we see frogs back-on.) Hm hm hmm.

[TheInquisitor]

I opted for this pose because of the relaxed nature. My thought process on this is "Magi = calm" To perform magic in a battle you need a cool head, which this frogman has.

I've added some magical sparkles.  I don't think the other arm needs to be shown. It would just be an unnatural position and wouldn't add any more to what I think is an already solid pose.

[Cyangmou]

the warm/cold contrast of the frogs staff and the sunn is now to strong and destroys the whole color balance of the piece.
I am also not too confident about showing the frogs backside (and the new frog design is imho boring as hell) - it repulses the view and destroys the whole composition. The new position of the staff underlines the clutter even more.
All the changes you made within your last 3 posts seems to make it worse instead adding something interesting to the piece.

[Corinthian Baby]

My only gripe with it is that the frog is very wise-looking and sage like instead of menacing/opposing. Why would our hero want to hurt such a creature?

[TheInquisitor]

Unexpected criticism of the changes there, Cyang. But I'm nothing if not open and versatile.

I much prefer the new layout of the frogman and was in complete agreement with the other posters. However, to address some of your views, I've moved the frogman further to the left in order to move his staff away from the sunset. I've also changed the colour of his staff back to the greenish tones from the original so that it's all less severe. I dropped the stars - they weren't working.



I've also changed the colours of the frogman back do a darker, greener tone again. Somewhere in between the two versions I had before.

For all of you who're clammering for the frogman to be more aggressive, I won't be changing the pose, but I've changed his eyes to make him look a little moodier. 'appy?  Wise, sage and friendly he is not.

Obviously it's impossible to satisfy everyone, but I'm content with how it looks now. I'm happy to call this one done.