AuthorTopic: New here and in Pixel art aswell.  (Read 13414 times)

Offline odedrt9

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 105
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

New here and in Pixel art aswell.

on: January 12, 2013, 06:52:22 pm
Hi, Im new here and in Pixel arting too.
I made some thing and I want opinions and suggestions to improve my skills :P

On some of the tiles I worked alot of time, I tried 10000 ways to make them look better(I mean with different designs)..
Hmm.. Thats all I think..

Here are some arts:

Tiles:
This is my first grass tile(16x16)

This is better I think and its 32x32:

These are 16x16 stone tiles:

Side:

With grass:

This is 32x32 stone tile:

Two versions with grass:

And:

This is a rock  ;)

This is a tiled map:


Tree:
Old:

New:                       Without bananas:
           
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 09:38:09 am by odedrt9 »

Offline odedrt9

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 105
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: New here and in Pixel art aswell.

Reply #1 on: January 13, 2013, 06:11:27 pm
Hmm no replies? I worked really hard on them, I think I deserve a reply or something..

Offline Lachie Dazdarian

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 141
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • The Maker Of Stuff

Re: New here and in Pixel art aswell.

Reply #2 on: January 13, 2013, 07:25:20 pm
Hrm....dude, nobody deserves anything in life.

When there is not replies, maybe there isn't anything educative to criticize on your work, or people are simply busy. Just keep trying.

I personally love the first grass tile, but I think you need to make few more patterns, because inside the map repetition is quite obvious. Rock tile could use a reboot. All rocks inside the tile have same color edges, independent of light source. That is wrong. Try not to think of this tile as a lump of rocks, but as a rocky-texture.

Also, shadow under the rock mustn't be grey, as it is casting shadow on green surface. Make it dark green.

Try this kiwinuptuo tutorial on textures: http://kiwinuptuo.deviantart.com/#/d3d4ufx

Really awesome.

When stuck with an object, always look for reference, whether real objects, drawings or pixel art:
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/17121.htm
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/25590.htm
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 07:26:59 pm by Lachie Dazdarian »

Offline odedrt9

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 105
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: New here and in Pixel art aswell.

Reply #3 on: January 14, 2013, 07:05:23 pm
Hrm....dude, nobody deserves anything in life.

When there is not replies, maybe there isn't anything educative to criticize on your work, or people are simply busy. Just keep trying.

I personally love the first grass tile, but I think you need to make few more patterns, because inside the map repetition is quite obvious. Rock tile could use a reboot. All rocks inside the tile have same color edges, independent of light source. That is wrong. Try not to think of this tile as a lump of rocks, but as a rocky-texture.

Also, shadow under the rock mustn't be grey, as it is casting shadow on green surface. Make it dark green.

Try this kiwinuptuo tutorial on textures: http://kiwinuptuo.deviantart.com/#/d3d4ufx

Really awesome.

When stuck with an object, always look for reference, whether real objects, drawings or pixel art:
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/17121.htm
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/25590.htm


Thanks for the reply Lachie, I know I was kinda impatiant..

Hmm I took your advice about taking a references and I redoing the tree.
Here it is(Still WIP):


As you can see the bananas looks kinda weird hmm I dont sure how to do them so Ill leave them like that until Ill finish the tree itself..

About the shadow under the rock:
Hmm I did it like that because its not suppose to be just on grass its can be on any kind of ground tile so Its look weird if its was dark green on dirt path..

About the grass:
Yes I was going to make more patterns, I noticed after I finished it that its looks repetitive.. Thats why I did the 32x32 grass tile its dosent has a pattern its doesnt look repetitive when tiled..

P.S
Sorry for the late reply Im busy and I had math test today so I had to learn all week..(Went good btw :P )
Hmm I hope Ill finish the tree tomorrow and Ill keep updating this thread.

P.S.S
Mabye nobody deserves anything but there are people that deserves more than other.. (Just had to mention it). And sorry for my english Im from Israel..
« Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 07:26:35 pm by odedrt9 »

Offline Seiseki

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 915
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Starmancer
    • OminuxGames
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/35207.htm
    • StarmancerGame
    • View Profile
    • Starmancer Patreon

Re: New here and in Pixel art aswell.

Reply #4 on: January 14, 2013, 08:17:40 pm
I don't believe anyone deserves anything here except the people here that go to great lengths to help out with critique and examples, which deserves huge thanks.
You're not really entitled to anything here just because you drew something, no one here is.
Talent and skill vary for every person here, but no one can say someone deserves more or less attention.
Of course some work is more interesting, but that doesn't really have anything to do with what anyone deserves.
You shouldn't think in terms of what you or anyone else deserves, because that's not really how life works.
At least that's what I think.

I think you need to be more observant of how things actually look.
As with any art, if you don't have experience drawing these things or know what they look like, you need to study and draw them over and over.
For example, on your palm tree the leaves slope down as if it's dead. While in the reference they're vibrant and pointing outwards.
Perhaps it's meant to be the perspective, but that also means you need to train on your sense of perspective and thinking in 3D, since right now it points straight down instead of towards the viewer. (although to be fair, the perspective is kinda weird on the reference too)

I'd say the reason no one hasn't really been replying is that you could benefit a lot more from training regular art skills like sketching and drawing things from reference than from pixel art.
As for the pixel art itself it lacks contrast and sometimes clear shapes, the 32x32 stone tile has outlines that just look out of place. Most of the tiles appear kinda fuzzy.

Also there are tons of RPG tilesets here, it's the most common thing posted.
You should go and check out other tilesets and see how they solve things.

Also impatience is your worst enemy when learning any art form. It's all about hard work and tons of practice.
You'll also need to develop your brain into seeing the pieces an image is built from, shapes, shading, light, reflections, etc.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 08:23:57 pm by Seiseki »

Offline Lachie Dazdarian

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 141
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • The Maker Of Stuff

Re: New here and in Pixel art aswell.

Reply #5 on: January 14, 2013, 11:10:44 pm
Everything on the side, I think you are on a good road with replicating that palm tree. Finish it. I don't think you need bananas, at this point. But if you insist on them, think about their shape, shadow that falls on them from the leaves, or the light that casts on them from the sun. Add more juice to them. Something like this:



This is only to illustrate my idea. I, myself, am still a quite poor pixel "artist". There is some conflict of styles between the bananas and everything else in my edit.

It all depends on what you want to accomplish with your pixel art, atm. Are you making a game? Freeware of plan to sell it? Or you plan to become a professional pixel artist? I personally want to up pixel art in my freeware games, so I allow myself to skip some rules and steps to accomplish my humble goals, but am aware of the negative sides of this approach, like having to re-learn many things.

If you plan to become a professional pixel artist you will need to take much smaller steps.

Offline odedrt9

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 105
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: New here and in Pixel art aswell.

Reply #6 on: January 15, 2013, 05:24:21 am
I think you need to be more observant of how things actually look.
As with any art, if you don't have experience drawing these things or know what they look like, you need to study and draw them over and over.
For example, on your palm tree the leaves slope down as if it's dead. While in the reference they're vibrant and pointing outwards.
Perhaps it's meant to be the perspective, but that also means you need to train on your sense of perspective and thinking in 3D, since right now it points straight down instead of towards the viewer. (although to be fair, the perspective is kinda weird on the reference too)

I'd say the reason no one hasn't really been replying is that you could benefit a lot more from training regular art skills like sketching and drawing things from reference than from pixel art.
As for the pixel art itself it lacks contrast and sometimes clear shapes, the 32x32 stone tile has outlines that just look out of place. Most of the tiles appear kinda fuzzy.

Also there are tons of RPG tilesets here, it's the most common thing posted.
You should go and check out other tilesets and see how they solve things.

Also impatience is your worst enemy when learning any art form. It's all about hard work and tons of practice.
You'll also need to develop your brain into seeing the pieces an image is built from, shapes, shading, light, reflections, etc.

Thanks for the reply. Can we just ignore the who deserves thing? Its off topic..

Hmm yes I know I need to work on the prespective and light/shadow its the hard part for me..

Everything on the side, I think you are on a good road with replicating that palm tree. Finish it. I don't think you need bananas, at this point. But if you insist on them, think about their shape, shadow that falls on them from the leaves, or the light that casts on them from the sun. Add more juice to them. Something like this:



This is only to illustrate my idea. I, myself, am still a quite poor pixel "artist". There is some conflict of styles between the bananas and everything else in my edit.

It all depends on what you want to accomplish with your pixel art, atm. Are you making a game? Freeware of plan to sell it? Or you plan to become a professional pixel artist? I personally want to up pixel art in my freeware games, so I allow myself to skip some rules and steps to accomplish my humble goals, but am aware of the negative sides of this approach, like having to re-learn many things.

If you plan to become a professional pixel artist you will need to take much smaller steps.

Hmm Im not sure If the bananas are neccessery but also I dont see a way to put there another leaf..

Yes Im making games with my friend freeware for now until we will get better coders and then we can sell pro games..
I dont want to become a pro pixel artist but I want to improve to be able to make good graphics for my games/myself(I kinda like pixel art..).

What samller steps do you suggest?

Offline Lachie Dazdarian

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 141
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • The Maker Of Stuff

Re: New here and in Pixel art aswell.

Reply #7 on: January 15, 2013, 06:01:00 am
Quote
What samller steps do you suggest?

Simply saying that learning while developing graphics for a specific project is not such a good idea if you final goal is to be a professional pixel artist. IMO, if you aim to become a professional you need to develop and practice pixel art specifically to improve, which means producing nondedicated pixel art and also working on your drawing skills, which might even mean putting pixel art on the side for a while.

Offline odedrt9

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 105
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: New here and in Pixel art aswell.

Reply #8 on: January 15, 2013, 08:00:07 pm
Quote
What samller steps do you suggest?

Simply saying that learning while developing graphics for a specific project is not such a good idea if you final goal is to be a professional pixel artist. IMO, if you aim to become a professional you need to develop and practice pixel art specifically to improve, which means producing nondedicated pixel art and also working on your drawing skills, which might even mean putting pixel art on the side for a while.

I didnt done anything today.. I was short on time..
But I did a quick test about prespective with a book..(I took real one as a reference and draw it flat and top-down)
Here it is:


Anyways its late here so Ill check the thread tomorrow after school..

Edit: Here is the current banana tree:

As you can see I fixed the trunk to look less flat and I edited  the bananas abit now they have more than one color..
Hmm and I finished the leaves.
Can you see anything that need to be worked on?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 08:22:53 pm by odedrt9 »

Offline Blackhawk22

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: New here and in Pixel art aswell.

Reply #9 on: January 16, 2013, 10:13:07 pm

Okay, so I added darker shadows/ lighter hues. I don't think the vector look fits, but it's up to you.

Offline odedrt9

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 105
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: New here and in Pixel art aswell.

Reply #10 on: January 17, 2013, 06:27:28 am

Okay, so I added darker shadows/ lighter hues. I don't think the vector look fits, but it's up to you.

Ok Ill add some lighter and draker shadows.
But Im not sure that the dithering in the "other side" leaves is neccessery because there are parts that kinda look weird..
And what did you mean by "I don't think the vector look fits"? What vector?

Edit:


I updated the main post with the newest versions and banana less version xD
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 05:32:29 pm by odedrt9 »

Offline Blackhawk22

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: New here and in Pixel art aswell.

Reply #11 on: January 17, 2013, 08:41:07 pm
@odedrt9 You're right the dithering didn't fit, it was just a fast edit though. Your palm tree did not have much detail like the vector palm tree. That's all I was saying, just an opinion.

Offline odedrt9

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 105
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: New here and in Pixel art aswell.

Reply #12 on: January 17, 2013, 08:49:41 pm
@odedrt9 You're right the dithering didn't fit, it was just a fast edit though. Your palm tree did not have much detail like the vector palm tree. That's all I was saying, just an opinion.

Your right that its kinda empty so I did another try:

Its not finished yet Ill work on it more tommorow.

Offline coffee

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 190
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • JohanAronson
    • View Profile

Re: New here and in Pixel art aswell.

Reply #13 on: January 18, 2013, 12:09:22 pm
ok!

I'm gonna go back a bit. First of all, having a reference can be helpful and all, however going straight off it it's not always a good thing, especially when it's cartoony like this piece.

The problem here is the translation to pixelart, It gets very weird.

Now if you want to do it straight off anyway there are a cupple of things you need to think about.

The outlines around the tree make less use in this format. The only purpose it serves right now is to make it look sharp and edgy, not in a good way and far from the original reference. It's ofc achieveable, but it would take plenty a colours for AA, which is just not needed. Also when you are using outlines like this, you don't want to put them "inside" the sprite. Like, between the bright piece of leaves and the dark parts, there is already a contrast which is not needed to show further, same goes for the trunk.

And it looking empty is not a problem

I made a very sloppy edit to show you this:


I also made a version so you might compare this to something, I'm sure there will be plenty of Palmtrees around the forums aswell.



Jad made this edit of one of jedzeds art:


Keep it up and good luck!

« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 12:11:54 pm by coffee »

Offline odedrt9

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 105
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: New here and in Pixel art aswell.

Reply #14 on: January 18, 2013, 12:40:39 pm
ok!

I'm gonna go back a bit. First of all, having a reference can be helpful and all, however going straight off it it's not always a good thing, especially when it's cartoony like this piece.

The problem here is the translation to pixelart, It gets very weird.

Now if you want to do it straight off anyway there are a cupple of things you need to think about.

The outlines around the tree make less use in this format. The only purpose it serves right now is to make it look sharp and edgy, not in a good way and far from the original reference. It's ofc achieveable, but it would take plenty a colours for AA, which is just not needed. Also when you are using outlines like this, you don't want to put them "inside" the sprite. Like, between the bright piece of leaves and the dark parts, there is already a contrast which is not needed to show further, same goes for the trunk.

And it looking empty is not a problem

I made a very sloppy edit to show you this:


I also made a version so you might compare this to something, I'm sure there will be plenty of Palmtrees around the forums aswell.



Jad made this edit of one of jedzeds art:


Keep it up and good luck!

First of all thanks for the critique.
Now, I understand the "inside" outlines and to be honset I always did it that way and nobody told me that its wrong/not usefull. Ill try to make another version with the suggestions you gave me and Ill post it here.

Edit:
Here I did something like you said(at least I think that its what you meant)
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 02:27:55 pm by odedrt9 »

Offline coffee

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 190
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • JohanAronson
    • View Profile

Re: New here and in Pixel art aswell.

Reply #15 on: January 18, 2013, 08:18:12 pm
Dont get me wrong, outlines is good, when you know when to apply it.

This looks a lot better! However, I would still get rid of the stripes on the leaves.

 :y:

Offline odedrt9

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 105
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: New here and in Pixel art aswell.

Reply #16 on: January 19, 2013, 06:19:30 am
Dont get me wrong, outlines is good, when you know when to apply it.

This looks a lot better! However, I would still get rid of the stripes on the leaves.

 :y:

Well thanks xD
But what should I put if not the stripes? Banana leaves have stripes..
See:

Offline Ymedron

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 306
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • All draw and no paint!
    • View Profile
    • My Deviantart account

Re: New here and in Pixel art aswell.

Reply #17 on: January 19, 2013, 06:43:33 am
I think you should rather put an overall light-shape, and at the edges of that -imply- some lines. Surface texture comes out the best at the edges of shadows and highlights, after all.
Uniform lines flatten the leaves and make them look fabric-like.

I attempted a fix of some kind on the front leaf, by adding a higher contrast shine. It might be too shiny.
Also my art tumblr: ymedronart.tumblr.com

Offline odedrt9

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 105
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: New here and in Pixel art aswell.

Reply #18 on: January 21, 2013, 05:11:04 am
I think you should rather put an overall light-shape, and at the edges of that -imply- some lines. Surface texture comes out the best at the edges of shadows and highlights, after all.
Uniform lines flatten the leaves and make them look fabric-like.

I attempted a fix of some kind on the front leaf, by adding a higher contrast shine. It might be too shiny.


Sorry for the late reply...
Thx Ill try to make another version like you said.