AuthorTopic: [WIP][C+C] Lava Serpent[EDIT 3: long time no see]  (Read 6346 times)

Offline MLA

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

[WIP][C+C] Lava Serpent[EDIT 3: long time no see]

on: December 13, 2012, 09:37:30 pm
Hello everyone.

I wish to gain mastery of what I have been told is the most challanging and stuctured of artistic mediums. I have done some forrays into the shores of this vast ocean of technique but I did not get very far. This is my first serious work and it was suggested to me that I join a pixel art forum in particular in order to further advance my skill in this craft.



I would greatly appreciate some heavy duty critique on this. The primary reason being that I do not know precisely where all the problem areas are in the image.


EDIT: this is a bit odd now I can't see it. anyway here is a link to its page on deviantart

http://mlaproduction.deviantart.com/#/d5nz2df.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 04:21:39 pm by MLA »

Offline Yngar

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Part-time Ludologist
    • View Profile
    • Blog

Re: [WIP][C+C] Lava Serpent

Reply #1 on: December 13, 2012, 11:35:35 pm
Your image isn't loading for me.

Offline Lachie Dazdarian

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 141
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • The Maker Of Stuff

Re: [WIP][C+C] Lava Serpent

Reply #2 on: December 13, 2012, 11:48:57 pm
I think the fire (?) going from serpent's mouth (?) could use some detached flames and maybe small particles flying out with smokey trail. ATM, it looks like an orange/red teared cloth...to me.

And I think the lava lake could use a different approach. Maybe this can give you an idea: http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/45765.htm

Overall, lava/fire in this work is its weakest aspect, IMO. I love the rock, the serpent, the background.

Offline Red_Mist

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 132
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Not enough pixels in the world.
    • View Profile
    • FuzionLLC

Re: [WIP][C+C] Lava Serpent

Reply #3 on: December 13, 2012, 11:55:20 pm
you might benefit from looking at elks rendering as it closely matches what I think your trying to do.

if not, is fun to just stare at too! :D

http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/61838.htm
<Xion> I can't see it why can't I see it

Offline MLA

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP][C+C] Lava Serpent

Reply #4 on: December 14, 2012, 09:06:48 pm


http://mlaproduction.deviantart.com/art/Lava-serpent-WIP-2-342836479?ga_submit=10%3A1355518740

anyway here is edit 2 of the serpent

changed up the lava a bit. I also changed up the fire and added a bit of smoke trailing off. I also changed the pink highlights on themetal body of the snake to better fit the changes to the fire and lava.

somthing still feels off about the image. Not sure if its the lava or just the general lighting of the piece.

more critique would be fantastic.

Offline Ashbad

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 226
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • I am governor Jerry Brown
    • View Profile
    • SoundCloud

Re: [WIP][C+C] Lava Serpent[EDIT 2]

Reply #5 on: December 15, 2012, 12:08:15 am
- The new, bright lava is nice, but the rocks don't reflect nearly enough light, considering how much light the lava is radiating.  Quick color-only edit that demonstrates how much better the rocks would fit in with more contrast:



- The rocks look rather smooth and round; sharp, abrupt edges, and more flat surfaces will help portray rocks more convincingly.

- It feels like it's missing something, partially because it seems a bit imbalanced, compositionally; a lot is going on in the bottom of the piece, whereas the top is bare in comparison.

- Many banding issues -- I'd read this: http://www.pixel.schlet.net/

From there, I'd say to work on details, but these areas are much more fundamental, and there's no point in detailing something that could use more underlying improvement.

Nice job so far!

Offline Dr D

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 415
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Not a real doctor.
    • View Profile
    • PJ Gallery

Re: [WIP][C+C] Lava Serpent[EDIT 2]

Reply #6 on: December 15, 2012, 12:24:11 am
It feels like it's missing something, partially because it seems a bit imbalanced, compositionally; a lot is going on in the bottom of the piece, whereas the top is bare in comparison.

I'm going to have to disagree on this point. I don't think adding extra things to the top half of the image would benefit the composition much. Is balance something an artist should always strive for when trying to create a good composition? Does every piece have to have an equal amount of elements in every part of the picture? It would probably make the picture too needlessly busy.

My eyes seem to start at the lava, which is bright and busy and draws your attention; then they follow the triangular shape of the rocks up to the serpent, and then the serpent up to it's mouth and out to the blank (it could probably use some stars or something - but not too much) night sky to rest on.

I should also mention I like the way that half contrasts with the bottom half of the picture.

I honestly really like it the way it is, composition-wise.  I am no composition expert by any means, though.

Offline DoctorDRG

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP][C+C] Lava Serpent[EDIT 2]

Reply #7 on: December 15, 2012, 10:25:47 am


I felt that something was missing in the middle, and for me, the serpent wasn't embedded enough into the piece.  I've tried to rough in the body of the serpent over Ashbad's edit, which I think balances out the composition a bit.

Other than that, I think your colour choices are great!

Offline Cyangmou

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 929
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • cyangmou
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/32234.htm
    • cyangmou
    • View Profile
    • Pixwerk Homepage

Re: [WIP][C+C] Lava Serpent[EDIT 2]

Reply #8 on: December 15, 2012, 01:51:27 pm
Hello MLA,
You choose a pretty challenging work for your first pixel art piece. Especially if you are not familiar with how to do pixel art it’s always a good idea to start from small pieces. I think the strongest part of your piece ist he idea. While your idea is good your general drawing skill needs work because it's obvious that you are talented, but you lack experience.

Currently your piece is OK as it is, but it lacks very basic things, like an eye level, perspective and form. The other big things which needs a lot of work is your sense of colors and composition.
It’s hard to do big and complicated artwork if you aren’t even able to draw small things in the right way. It’s by far easier to start with simple small things and build on them step by step.
Let’s start with your piece

There are some smaller issues which hit my eyes immediately.
1, 5 – the snake isn’t consistent in diameter. I don’ttalk about the general anatomical sense, but your lines are messed up at 1 and the diameter changes heavily and perspectivically wrong tot he bally plates at „5“
2 – you just added some rocks in the background which look like pasted. This feeling is caused by just adding them straight at the lavaa surface – they don’t contain any form information.
3 – also how the snake winds around the rock lacks form and perspective
4 – the perspective hwo the rock associate with the lava is wrong too
6 – here you have visual tangent between the rock and the serpents body
7 – the sky also lacks color perspective
8 – you have strong problems with jaggy lines and banding
Also your pallet contains lots of similar colors – maybe caused through editing.

But the biggest issue is the lack of forms (perspective)

I just made a pretty fast edit to show you a way how you can solve problems. I would call this a bit more detailled thumbnail sketch - it still has lots of issues I'd need to work on because I recognized them, but for demonstration purposes it's OK. It took "only" 30 minutes. I suppose you worked by far l onger on your piece.

Here is the process:

1 – I lay in the horizont and also some raw bg
2 – I add some colors to define more what I want to do
3 – now I lay in some foreground shape do define the position and composition of the shapes who will change into rocks later on
4 – I start with adding in the snake
5 – now it’s time to play more around with perspective, composition, colors, layering etc etc. to get the best result possible – I don’t played around a lot though and don't fixed the change of the horizont line due to composition. I just proceeded with the usual process.
6 to 8 – Adding more colors, changing stuff, fix all issues occur and always work from the big things to the small things.
8 is where i stopped, I just worked on a bit from 6 to illustrate that you can take it further with adding colors details and stuff.



It’s easy to work on faults if you started just with a drawing, the farther you get in your process the harder it will get to remove those general big problems. Pieces with „big“ issues and lots of details can look nice or even great, but imo it’s not worth to work on anything which issues you recognized and aren’t able to solve without putting in a huge amount of time in them.
 
The art is to improve your piece continuously (over your whole process) and add always more details just where they are needed. After you refined it to a pretty fine state I’d recommend to add pixel art techniques.

If you aren’t capable of seeing your faults work on your basics - this helps a lot. You can't put enough work in your basics.



Big pieces take serious effort and skill. The bigger the pixel art that more time you need to refine and the more general art issues occur and the more often you have to redraw parts oft he artwork. If you build your piece step by step it’s easy to rescale it in the early steps too, because you haven’t added pixal art technique anywhere which is destroyed by resizing. it nowhere. If I would cut down my edit by half it would still look the same or? And it's by far less work with detailling.



"Because the beauty of the human body is that it hasn't a single muscle which doesn't serve its purpose; that there's not a line wasted; that every detail of it fits one idea, the idea of a man and the life of a man."

Dev-Art
Twitter

Offline MLA

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [WIP][C+C] Lava Serpent[EDIT 2]

Reply #9 on: January 29, 2013, 04:20:52 pm
Ok long time no post.



 in case people can't see it for some reason:

http://mlaproduction.deviantart.com/art/Fire-Serpent-take-2-351276283?ga_submit_new=10%253A1359475349

I've been attempting to redo this copletely for the past week.

the piece is still a heavy WIP but I think I'm getting closer to the feeling that I wanted. I went more mane aznd less fire for the head of the critter. 

the main trouble I'm having with the rocks is that solidified lava ends to reflect shadows different than other types of rocks as the rocks are reflective and they tend to be in weird flowing shapes.

 I also didn't want to go the purple/blue route as I wanted the serpent to really stand out.

the serpent was more of a concept than anything else.


thank you Cyangmou, your advice was extremely helpful.