AuthorTopic: GR#109 - Female Fighter Sprite - Sprite Process  (Read 12328 times)

Offline hsn2555

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GR#109 - Female Fighter Sprite - Sprite Process

on: August 13, 2012, 11:15:48 pm
Hello guys,

I am working on this sprite for a friend's game. It is supposed to show the status of the character. so I am gonna animate it later in different states, but I have a feeling that its figure isn't proper, especially her arm  :mean:
i am almost done with the upper part


update:

Any hints ?
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 02:36:23 pm by hsn2555 »
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Offline Tourist

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Re: Female Assassin Sprite

Reply #1 on: August 14, 2012, 12:45:20 am
The title says female, but you've drawn a man.  Even a lean athletic woman will have hips.  The pose is off balance, but since one leg is longer than the other that might be ok.  She probably needs a hunch to go with the different leg lengths though.

Probably too many colors in the palette, but the set of values (light to dark) is good.

The costume is a bit... well.  Trying to cover up poor anatomy with clothing or armor doesn't work.
  • She has a shoulder protector, but an exposed belly and cleavage.  The shoulder protector doesn't really protect much. 
  • A championship wrestling belt? A blue cloth armband?
  • Several more belts which look like they will fall down and trip her up.  Nor do they seem to support anything.
Holding the knife by the blade instead of the handle is not practical.  Nor is hair that covers the eyes - I imagine an assassin wants to see, but not be seen.

Suggestion: Draw out the anatomy first, more completely than you have done on the left.  then add clothing.  Rework the clothing design for a mix of both practicality and style.  Assassin is a bit general, so develop the idea a bit more.  A poisoner and a sniper might both be assassins, but they will dress and look differently from one another.

Hope this helps,
Tourist

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: Female Assassin Sprite

Reply #2 on: August 14, 2012, 05:57:21 am
May I ask why an assassin would wear such colorful clothing?

Offline jams0988

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Re: Female Assassin Sprite - (update: not assassin,just fighter)

Reply #3 on: August 14, 2012, 04:48:58 pm
Quote
May I ask why an assassin would wear such colorful clothing?
Sure. Just go have a talk with the creators of Assassin's Creed, Naruto, and 007 while you're at it. =P
Style trumps realism constantly in fiction; this is in response to Tourist's "the armor doesn't protect much" comment, too. Steel bikinis have been a staple of fantasy games since they came out; I'm not sure "her belly is showing" is really valid criticism when best sellers have been pulling it for years.
Another answer for the outfit might simply be that everyone in the characters universe dresses in bright clothing, and she's simply fitting in. A jet-black ninja costume wouldn't be especially inconspicuous if everyone around her was wearing rainbow colors, hahah! ^ ^

I do agree about the belt buckles, though. They really do look like they're falling off, and the giant wrestling belt isn't very cool looking. It really does feel like half the stuff was thrown on to cover up the bad anatomy, as Tourist pointed out. I agree with the advice to start all over again, making sure you have a sound base to work on before adding the clothes. The outfit should be a stylistic choice, not one made to cover up a bad drawing underneath.

I do think the outfit is interesting looking overall, though. I love how flamboyant it is with the colored layered cloths and such. I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out with a better model to wear it. =)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 05:21:31 pm by jams0988 »

Offline API-Beast

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Re: Female Assassin Sprite - (update: not assassin,just fighter)

Reply #4 on: August 14, 2012, 08:03:14 pm
In the case of Assassins Creed it actually makes sense, the assassinations are politically motivated and everyone should know that the person was killed by the assassins. That's also the reason why the important people are usually killed in the middle of some kind of public ceremony and not at night while sleeping.  About Naruto and 007: Neither are assassins.

A good design is something that combines purpose and style.

Offline Tourist

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Re: Female Assassin Sprite - (update: not assassin,just fighter)

Reply #5 on: August 14, 2012, 09:17:32 pm
I kind of like the colorful skirt.  It breaks up the drab dark and brown of the rest of the clothing.  Not every assassin needs to be ninja McBatman.  It depends on the context, and we have no context for this character.  I might not use the same style of skirt, but I think the colors are ok.

But I agree Mr. Beast on the need for both style and purpose in the design.

Tourist

Offline jams0988

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Re: Female Assassin Sprite - (update: not assassin,just fighter)

Reply #6 on: August 15, 2012, 03:09:20 am
Quote
In the case of Assassins Creed it actually makes sense, the assassinations are politically motivated and everyone should know that the person was killed by the assassins. That's also the reason why the important people are usually killed in the middle of some kind of public ceremony and not at night while sleeping.  About Naruto and 007: Neither are assassins.
No, the outfit in Assassin's Creed makes *absolutely no sense,* because nobody recognizes you as an assassin until you kill your target, so your argument holds no water. Naruto is a ninja who completes stealth missions wearing a bright orange jumpsuit. 007 is a spy whose face every criminal on the planet knows. I don't see how you couldn't draw the connections there. = \
And the reason targets are killed in broad daylight surrounded by guards in Assassin's Creed is because it's fun, not because it makes any sense. Once again, reality is boring, fiction is illogical to be entertaining.

Quote
But I agree Mr. Beast on the need for both style and purpose in the design.
To be honest, I actually enjoy outfits most when they're as realistic as possible, but mainly for the reason that they're so rare in fiction. Most stories I can think of feature characters whose costumes barely serve any function other than looking cool, hahah. My main point was that players/audiences are very forgiving about what you show them, as long as it looks interesting. It's even a trope! XD
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 03:11:43 am by jams0988 »

Offline hsn2555

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Re: Female Assassin Sprite - (update: not assassin,just fighter)

Reply #7 on: August 15, 2012, 04:20:04 am
Tourist, Ryumaru, jams0988, Mr. Beast,  jams0988 : Ok guys, I should have cleared things out from the beginning, I was kind of not specific, so you served me right  :blind:.
I am using a ref. pic to draw this sprite, so this character isn't designed by me , I really do not know what her exact function is, but at least she looks like an assassin to me.( she has something to do with fighting and killing).
This sprite is not playable, it just shows the condition of the 3D playable model. (idle, damaged, searching)
In fact I cannot remove anything from the outfit or change anything in the design, even the wrestling belt as mentioned by tourist.
I am not arguing about the definition of assassin. :S

Tourist, jams0988 : thanks a lot, that helped a lot. I did some changes based on your crits.
Starting over and redrawing the whole thing again would be a hard choice for me. It would take a lot of time. Especially since this is my first time drawing a big sprite like this one.

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Offline PixelPiledriver

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Re: Female Assassin Sprite - (update: not assassin,just fighter)

Reply #8 on: August 15, 2012, 08:58:26 am
Cool.
I like girls.

Some messy edit:




Quote
This sprite is not playable, it just shows the condition of the 3D playable model. (idle, damaged, searching)
Multiple poses?
Or all from this one pose?
Shown on screen at all times?
Just curious.

Quote
I am using a ref. pic to draw this sprite, so this character isn't designed by me
Whats the ref look like?
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 09:12:07 am by PixelPiledriver »
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Offline API-Beast

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Re: Female Assassin Sprite - (update: not assassin,just fighter)

Reply #9 on: August 15, 2012, 11:21:36 am
No, the outfit in Assassin's Creed makes *absolutely no sense,* because nobody recognizes you as an assassin until you kill your target,
That's for the sake of the gameplay, it's not part of the story.
Quote
Naruto is a ninja who completes stealth missions wearing a bright orange jumpsuit.
Naruto is called a "ninja" for the sake of cool, it has nothing to do with the historical ninjas and he is rarely doing any "stealth" missions,

Offline Carnivac

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Re: Female Assassin Sprite - (update: not assassin,just fighter)

Reply #10 on: August 15, 2012, 11:59:37 am
My main point was that players/audiences are very forgiving about what you show them, as long as it looks interesting.

I'm not.  I hate impractical clothing, shoes, hairstyles on characters in video games (or anything else come to think of it), particularly the majority of japanese characters who like to go into battle looking like fashion disasters and ridiculous hair that surely prevents them getting through doorways.   Kinda knocks me out of getting into a game when it's clear the characters are obviously too concerned about looking 'good' than being practical.   Makes me think they're total idiots that deserve to die a painful death.
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Offline hsn2555

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Re: Female Assassin Sprite - (update: not assassin,just fighter)

Reply #11 on: August 15, 2012, 12:39:10 pm
Cool.
I like girls.

Some messy edit:




Quote
This sprite is not playable, it just shows the condition of the 3D playable model. (idle, damaged, searching)
Multiple poses?
Or all from this one pose?
Shown on screen at all times?
Just curious.

Quote
I am using a ref. pic to draw this sprite, so this character isn't designed by me
Whats the ref look like?

holy cow! that's one amazing edit. I see a lot of new issue i was blind about. Thanks!

-From this pose, and as far as I know yes, shown on the screen all the time.

-about the ref, Im waiting for the owner to give me his permission :).

here is an update :
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Offline hsn2555

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Re: Female Assassin Sprite - (update: not assassin,just fighter)

Reply #12 on: August 15, 2012, 02:40:16 pm
The owner gave the permission, and here is the ref :

She is actually a jinni turned into a human. YES! you heard it. & she is the hero's assistant.
Here is another update :
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 02:45:15 pm by hsn2555 »
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Offline Grimsane

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Re: Female Assassin Sprite - (update: not assassin,just fighter)

Reply #13 on: August 17, 2012, 05:01:15 am


Did a bit of an edit. Also took your 89 colours down to 48 and decreased the vibrancy a bit, most those colours are not needed. and on some monitors I could see that vibrancy causing a fair bit of colour bleeding, and the ref you use has lower saturation anyway, also there is something about her right leg, I think the twist of the torso and the opposing twist of the leg is making it look awkward to me, either twisting the torso right (toward the viewer) or the leg slightly in the opposite direction, or half half, and just make sure the leg runs consistently to the hip joint would fix it, but I'm not sure if it's truly an issue or just me  :-\ or it might be the rear leg that's tilted too much... I'm not sure D: but it's something

as if the leg is disconnected from the hip. Also the hips are hard to establish whether they tilt in relation to the shoulders, they seem to. put together a quick animation to elaborate what I mean, and how shoulders and hips twist and pivot in relation to each other



Offline Tourist

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Re: Female Assassin Sprite - (update: not assassin,just fighter)

Reply #14 on: August 18, 2012, 02:51:49 pm
Ouch.  You have my sympathies with regard to the character design.  Animating all those tiny bits of costume?  Yuck.  Using a full body image just for displaying status?  Ugh.

Your latest version is better.  PixelPileDriver's edit incorporates an exaggerated hourglass figure which works well for the broad shoulders.  Another option would be to squeeze the shoulders and torso a bit.  Maybe erase 2-3 pixels from the back of the ribcage and move the shoulder in a pixel or so.  This would give you a small but fit frame.  Something like:



It's an option. (Pic is from a fitness blog, not mine)

I think the forearm is a bit too round.  Usually the muscles are bunched up near the elbow, and the half near the wrist is fairly straight.  Women don't really ever get Popeye forearms, even the bodybuilders.  I think it would be enough to straighten the parts covered by the wristband.  Maybe shrink the width by a pixel.

Grimsane: I don't quite agree with your critique.  I think the legs could be a couple of pixels longer, but any attempt to add tilt to the hips will probably get lost under the layers of clothing and the lines of those extra belts.  Twisting the hips would be lost with the shading of the skirt.  I don't think that sort of contrapposto would work well.  Maybe a dynamic pose with a strong line of action instead?

But really, if this is just for status, see if you can draw it from head to waist rather than full body.  You get more pixels to add an expression to the face, you can still show some cleavage if they want the titillation, and you don't have as many elements of the costume to worry about.

Tourist

Offline Grimsane

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Re: Female Assassin Sprite - (update: not assassin,just fighter)

Reply #15 on: August 22, 2012, 08:32:08 am
Quote from: Tourist
Grimsane: I don't quite agree with your critique.  I think the legs could be a couple of pixels longer, but any attempt to add tilt to the hips will probably get lost under the layers of clothing and the lines of those extra belts.  Twisting the hips would be lost with the shading of the skirt.  I don't think that sort of contrapposto would work well.  Maybe a dynamic pose with a strong line of action instead?
??? just to clarify I didn't shorten the leg, or suggest shortening the leg. I didn't even adjust it, i only tweaked the arm and the colours and minor details, my anatomical suggestions was the bright coloured overlay, you'll notice the leg is in fact longer in the overlay. I didn't say add a hip tilt, I was questioning the actual tilting that was already happening, i was just finding it hard to read and was making sure the OP was aware of how shoulder and hips work in relation to each other. but I think it actually has decent tilting but as you pointed out it is obscured and offset by the costume elements

good photo reference especially for skeleton and muscles, and if you look at her right leg. it's exactly what I meant about anatomically possible leg twist, been studying anatomy and reproducing movement limitations and constraints and the leg twists/rotates inward and outward at the knee and feet.  working with meshes and skeletal rigs with realistic constraints you notice this



here is a crude visual example of what I mean, and while not dramatically so I think the assassin/fighter character does rotate laterally at the hip. To clarify our thighs rotate a bit as muscles are pulled and twisted relative to the bearing of the knee, but on it's own the hip is not really capable of lateral or medial rotation. not to get confused with pivotal rotation like shown slightly bottom left (our hips are capable high degrees of pivoting (in 3 dimensions), our shoulders are also pivoting joints and medial and lateral upper arm rotation is centric to the elbow)


example I found that should explain lateral and medial rotation well, essentially inward and outward rotation.

Offline Tourist

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Re: Female Assassin Sprite - (update: not assassin,just fighter)

Reply #16 on: August 23, 2012, 03:08:46 am
My apologies, I read your post incorrectly.  I agree with your analysis of the hips and legs in the source image.   I also think the legs could be a couple of pixels longer, to be in better proportion with the arms.

Tourist