AuthorTopic: [WIP] Adult Scootaloo + Cloudy Scene  (Read 31554 times)

Offline Helm

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Re: [WIP] Adult Scootaloo + Cloudy Scene

Reply #30 on: June 08, 2012, 03:59:04 pm
Conceit's post is pure knowledge, I support it 100%

As for your issues, I think it's time to bite the bullet and consider AAing the outside if you're bothered by those jaggies.



and my general advice would be to move towards some sort of finishing stage after you've sorted out your volumes as Conceit says, because a lot of pixel art solutions to problems are perception-based: When you move towards the end stage of cleaning up your pixels and how the various groups work together, solutions come intuitively to you.

Offline Ashbad

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Re: [WIP] Adult Scootaloo + Cloudy Scene

Reply #31 on: June 10, 2012, 04:33:32 pm
Update, I've been working on it more, and here's where it is now, about 75% to 80% in my opinion.



Colors: I actually liked the ideas of sunset colors, but they weren't working with the colors of the background.  Easy fix, make the background have the colors of a late sunset.

Hair: still need to work with it.  I personally like how it looks as of now, as compared to slightly more realistic edits, but I'll play with it more.

Water: started filling it in as a rough draft. At least now it actually looks like waves ^_^  wasn't able to get any good references, but looked through a few pictures I took down in Florida a while ago on a trip that had long stretches of the ocean in them, and kinda sorta figured out how they would work.

Clouds: anti-aliased to my satisfaction, now.

Color count: 16 so far, by the end it'll be closer to 24 I think.

Thing I've been using to edit this:  No, your guesses are wrong, Ai ;)  I've been using MS Paint.  *backs off* please don't punch me :( though I'll definitely look into that piece of software you recommended.

Shading: worked on it a little, I'm going to play with it more to make it more pronounced.

Rainbow:  I'm thinking about it.  It looks like it would work well, but if I add it it's going to be a final addition.  I'll fix/polish everything else first before going for bonus points :P

Things I missed: probably a lot.  You guys have given me a ton of information to process... which is great!  I just can't get to all of it right now.  I haven't even included all suggestions in my latest editing yet.  I'll get to them with time :)


EDIT:

Been working on the anti-aliasing for 2 hours straight now.  I'm going to finish the water next.  I'm getting very happy with where this is going.



Notice I still need to fiddle with the AA in some areas.  I already notice I need to make the eyes a bit more crisp looking *shrugs*

EDIT: and, underestimated my color count by the end of this process.  I'm at 31.  I think I can drop to 28 or 29 with no noticeable difference.  But I'm not too worried about it; since all I need to do now is work on the water, and I have more than enough colors to use to do that at my disposal now.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2012, 10:29:59 pm by Ashbad »

Offline Cyangmou

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Re: [WIP] Adult Scootaloo + Cloudy Scene

Reply #32 on: June 10, 2012, 11:23:52 pm


-you are wasting far too much colors with antialiasing - be more creative with your palette, I for example eliminated some colors while I increased the background colors and nobody will recognize it
-if you draw clouds, make sure that they look like clouds - soft and fluffy
-long horizontal lines in the water are working better for this scenario, also reflexions from the clouds will liven up the background enormously.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2012, 11:55:35 pm by Cyangmou »
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Offline Ashbad

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Re: [WIP] Adult Scootaloo + Cloudy Scene

Reply #33 on: June 11, 2012, 01:01:38 am
Thanks for the edit -- I knew my clouds were really lacking, but I wasn't going off of any examples so I wasn't quite sure how to pixel them.  I studied your edit and tried in turn to up the quality of the clouds:



Of course, I need to go back and pretty them up, do anti-aliasing, and then on top of that work on the water.  Not sure if I completely like the vertical lines there, actually, but I love the idea of the clouds reflecting onto the water :D

Offline Ai

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Re: [WIP] Adult Scootaloo + Cloudy Scene

Reply #34 on: June 11, 2012, 03:14:24 am
Update, I've been working on it more, and here's where it is now, about 75% to 80% in my opinion.



Colors: I actually liked the ideas of sunset colors, but they weren't working with the colors of the background.  Easy fix, make the background have the colors of a late sunset.
Looks good to me.

Quote
Hair: still need to work with it.  I personally like how it looks as of now, as compared to slightly more realistic edits, but I'll play with it more.
Well, as perhaps I demonstrated with my pair of tail edits, the thing that's truly important is that your 'abstract' rendering has a firm basis in the forms found in the more realistic rendering.
One guideline you could use, is to take a realistic rendering, and apply a gaussian blur. That's often what good relatively 'abstract' renderings look like.. a smoothed version of a realistic rendering, with some stylization and exaggeration to make it look more interesting

Quote
Water: started filling it in as a rough draft. At least now it actually looks like waves ^_^  wasn't able to get any good references, but looked through a few pictures I took down in Florida a while ago on a trip that had long stretches of the ocean in them, and kinda sorta figured out how they would work.
I think cyangmou's edit is on the right track. It really depends on the scale of the waves. What you have are quite big waves, when you consider the perspective is near a cloud. If the sea is not violent, you could flatten them out somewhat.

'Reference' material: Henk Nieborg's waves in lomax (complex and amazing),  the ocean waves in Worms.

(I wasn't able to find any good real life reference material -- ideally you want motion video of the waves, to get a really good sense of it.. the closest I came was r/WaterPorn, which contains a lot of awesome -static- images of water.)

Quote
Clouds: anti-aliased to my satisfaction, now.

Color count: 16 so far, by the end it'll be closer to 24 I think.

Thing I've been using to edit this:  No, your guesses are wrong, Ai ;)  I've been using MS Paint.  *backs off* please don't punch me :( though I'll definitely look into that piece of software you recommended.

On the contrary, you are clearly very dedicated. MS Paint doesn't make it easy for you :)

I don't agree with those people who say 'MS Paint is terrible, use a real pixel editor'. I mean, yes.. MS Paint -is- pretty terrible for most things, including pixel art, but I would prefer people to feel comfortable with changing to something more friendly on an experimental basis, rather than pressuring them -- you have been getting results with what you're using, it's just that with a better tool, you can spend more thinking time on the elements of the picture, and less getting the software to do what you want, which will get you to a better picture :)

Quote
Shading: worked on it a little, I'm going to play with it more to make it more pronounced.
Looks like you're headed in the right direction :)

Quote
Rainbow:  I'm thinking about it.  It looks like it would work well, but if I add it it's going to be a final addition.  I'll fix/polish everything else first before going for bonus points :P
Actually, that's another reason that Grafx2 might help -- you can put something like the rainbow on it's own layer, as long as you save as GIF. Then you have the possibility of doing a very rough rendering which you keep invisible most of the time until you finish the other things, for the purposes of ensuring its positioning and colors will work with the rest of the picture.

Quote
Been working on the anti-aliasing for 2 hours straight now.

 I'm going to finish the water next.  I'm getting very happy with where this is going.



Notice I still need to fiddle with the AA in some areas.  I already notice I need to make the eyes a bit more crisp looking *shrugs*
Yeah, you blurred them. When AAing you need to keep in mind which edges are close and which are far, so you can vary the amount accordingly. Overall you did a great job with the AA though. There are only a few points that I need to clarify.

Here's a rather hands-on animated edit. I jammed everything I could into it..



* BTW, I edited the eyes and  background cloud edges before I thought of doing the animation, so they don't change.
* If there's a sudden change in curvature, it may look 'ragged' if you don't give it plenty of AA (see the cloud area highlighted)
* Antialiasing 45-degree lines should be considered carefully. It can be used to enhance roundness, but only if placed carefully.. antialiasing immediately next to all of a 45-degree line segment creates banding (and mismatches the actual shape you're trying to describe, usually)
* Ending a 'sharp' point with an AA pixel tends to blunten it, rather than smoothing out its appearance. Generally to be avoided.
* When AAing diagonals that are not extreme in angle, try to think of them as a series of stacked 1-line diagonal gradients. That helps you avoid banding like on the leg (and generally looks spiffy)
* Varying AA amount according to the edge's relation to the lightsource, typically improves depth.
* A few things about representing tapering curves that the image itself adequately explains.
* A bit of banding was squashed.
* STUFF! :D
* (obvious cloud reflection wasn't included in the edit.)


Nice new clouds, btw :) I think you accidentally mangled a color or something though, because a crunchy outline appeared on her mane and etc.

For cloud examples, try r/SkyPorn/

EDIT: I actually enjoy the old style clouds (esp. their Chinese aesthetic), but the new ones are undeniably more integrated. Maybe you can get some idea for lighting from this: , an edit I just quickly messed around with that ended up surprisingly fascinating. ( I think I reversed the lighting somewhat though, unintentionally.)
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 04:24:41 am by Ai »
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Offline Ashbad

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Re: [WIP] Adult Scootaloo + Cloudy Scene

Reply #35 on: June 11, 2012, 08:04:10 pm
Whew.. that was yet another great (wall) of feedback!  You can't fathom how much I appreciate the level of detail you put into giving those suggestions.  Especially that animated "fix" gif -- I can't thank you enough for how much I learned just from looking at it! :D

Here's what I've now gotten to.



I still have some things from your suggestions to fix with the AA (mostly in the cloud), I want to smooth out the water a bit more, and then I want to fix up her shadow.  And then I'm gonna call it ready to post on dA and PJ!  However, I'm just doing that because I'm to the point where after doing those things, it's good enough to put up in a place like that.  I'll probably keep on editing it at a slower pace afterwards.

EDIT: I'm a bit lazy about avatars... so I just made the face of scootaloo in this mine for now.  Though I think it might be over the site's size restrictions -- I'll clip a small part of her face and make it smaller a bit later today.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 08:13:27 pm by Ashbad »

Offline Mr. Fahrenheit

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Re: [WIP] Adult Scootaloo + Cloudy Scene

Reply #36 on: June 11, 2012, 08:37:40 pm
Ashbad, I think you may have gone a little overboard with the anti aliasing on the clouds in the background. It looks very blurry.

Offline Ashbad

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Re: [WIP] Adult Scootaloo + Cloudy Scene

Reply #37 on: June 11, 2012, 08:42:09 pm
It's just as blurry as the cloud I had before, you're just noticing it more because they're more complex in shape, and have more "surface area" against the sky ;)  The outsides are blurry because they're  two color runs of AA, but internally there's only one color, single pixel runs.  I think it gives the perspective of them being "defocused", similar to what Ai was saying earlier about the other clouds.

To make them more realistic I would have used those internal AA colors to add extra texture, but I think that they're realistic enough to fit in place with Scootaloo, who's also only semi-realistic.

Offline Ashbad

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Re: [WIP] Adult Scootaloo + Cloudy Scene

Reply #38 on: June 12, 2012, 12:40:35 am
Does it still have room to improve?  Yes.  Am I proud of it so far?  Yes.  Is it going on dA how it is right now?  Yes.  Do I still intend to keep on updating it and editing it?  You betcha.



dA link -> http://theashbad.deviantart.com/art/Pixel-Art-Scootaloo-the-Orange-Haze-307822808

You guys helped me make this really great.  I learned a lot through making this.  I really don't know what to say except, *hugs*?

I'm going to take a bit of a break from this for a day or two, but then I'm going to go back and play with a few things like the AA, Tail Highlights, and the Shadow beneath scootaloo a bit more.

Offline r1k

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Re: [WIP] Adult Scootaloo + Cloudy Scene

Reply #39 on: June 12, 2012, 01:08:52 am
the AA on the clouds is looking blurry, but it also isnt really getting rid of jaggies or serving the purpose AA should, so its just looking a little jpeg-ish.  Heres a quick edit I did only to the bottom of the cloud.  Someone else could probably do it a bit better but hope it helps

mine is on the left, yours in on the right
I smoothed the overall shape of the cloud out a little inadvertantly, and I didnt really mean that to be part of the criticism, just the aa.