AuthorTopic: GR#124 - Action Adventure - RPG Projection, Gameart  (Read 28169 times)

Offline tehwexxl0rz

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Hey, remember that platform game I was working on?

Well long story short, it's now an overhead action/adventure game. :)
Here's a WIP running animation for the main character:


I'll post more stuff as it's created....

PS: Thanks a ton for all the feedback you guys gave me in the old thread. Just because the game has transformed into something else, I don't feel any of it's gone to waste. I hope to use the platformer sprites in their own game eventually, but right now, this is the game I'd like to focus on.

New smaller sprite:


WIP Tiles:
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 02:49:04 am by tehwexxl0rz »

Offline TheMonsterAtlas

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #1 on: May 12, 2012, 02:53:58 am
I do indeed remember your platform game ;P

I'm not expert by any means, but that walk cycle looks relatively well. The shoulders look like they are moving slower than the legs and arms, or at least that's how it looks to me .___.

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #2 on: May 12, 2012, 07:18:23 pm
Great readability! You squeezed some nice hips into a small amount of pixels. Don't know if that pixel separating the breasts is necessary even as costume design but it might just be preference.

Good luck with your game project :] Can't wait to see more!

Offline Mike

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #3 on: May 12, 2012, 09:55:15 pm
Sweet anim!  I don't think I've ever seen a sprite that renders the planes of the face as well as per pixel lighting. Sets a new bar for me :p

Anyway I have an edit for you and some teeny bits of advice

So after agonizing over exactly what could possibly be made better I came up with a few subtle points and one not so subtle.

1. When her arms swing back from the max position the spacing for them is very even.  In this edit I've made it take a bit longer for her to pull her arm back in front of her.  What that does is adds that pendulum effect.  You actually have it working quite well when she has her arms at the max distance in front of her and as she begins to pull away.  It's very smooth and not jarring.  I just took that effect and use it on the back swing.

2. I very subtley made her chest move just a bit.  Just to add that extra bit of movement flare.  I added a slight bounce as well as her armor dragging a bit behind the main movement.

3. I have her head seemingly dragging behind her body as she falls to the ground and when she rises.

4.I added some highlights to her pants, and boots. (not necessary by any means but it's something that could be done)

5. I have the bottom of her shirt following through with the movement of her body.  Once again subtlety is key here.  When she falls it drags behind her and when she hits the ground it follows.

I think that's all I edit

Here's a side by side (hope this helps out in anyway possible)

Offline tehwexxl0rz

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #4 on: June 15, 2012, 12:07:01 pm
Thanks guys! :)

Buuuuuuuhhhhh I hate doing environments:


I have to make the scale of the world bigger or the character smaller... I'll probably make the character smaller because holy crap so much work ahead of me.

BY THE WAY! Before anyone comments on the "perspective" of the walls, I should note, I'm not using perspective at all. The projection is orthographic. The walls don't just appear slanted because the top is closer to the viewer than the bottom, the walls are actually slanted. Thus, it's appropriate for the seams between bricks to run vertically on the back wall and NOT line up with the creases in the corners of the room.

Chibi baby:

« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 01:24:31 pm by tehwexxl0rz »

Offline PypeBros

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #5 on: June 15, 2012, 03:26:28 pm
neat. Too bad you can't keep her full-adult size.
anyway, i felt like doing an edit to try out some ideas:

1. tried to apply perspective on sprite rather than chibbiness -> change boot scales, moved shoulders backwards, and eyes downwards + showed more of her cute cyan hair.
2. just sheared wall, mirrored, and kept "straight" bricks only around the doors, although I had read your text about walls being slanted. That might be a completely bad idea, but I had to see it to figure out.

Offline Facet

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #6 on: June 15, 2012, 04:43:06 pm
BY THE WAY!...
A good pre-emptive call :P The projection looks good although the character's gonna clip through those sheared doors if she's above the centre line; the alternative being to foreshorten her like Pype mentioned or lessen the shearing.

The Zelda walls cheaty one-point perspective where you mirror the far wall vertically & scale same as the sides (link link :D) does look a bit odd at first but it does also allay the issue of height in the foreground obscuring what looks like traversable floorspace that a lot of top-down games have.

« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 11:23:55 pm by Facet »

Offline Grimsane

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #7 on: June 15, 2012, 05:55:49 pm
I actually messed with this awhile ago too, after you posted the room. figured I'd share

updated just now with an extension of Pype's wall edit, those door funnels and your chibi update for comparison next to the downsize I did earlier. because no matter how you spin it you have a perspective effect going :lol:

was curious how sloped the walls were and what wouldn't look jarring, so your tile grid is 24x24 with an 8 pixel intersecting wall border(cyan)?

looks interesting to say the least :P, and thought of the sheering thing too, I'm sure in zelda, definitely in LTTP they had obtrusions that were used for funneling to the doors, could do that  :D



might be worth compromising and doing it zelda style (like what Facet linked), save you alot of effort, and it does work

Offline rikfuzz

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #8 on: June 15, 2012, 06:21:54 pm
I recently tried the Zelda one-point approach:



One on the right's obviously just scaled quickly in photoshop, but it's kinda half way between the one point view and your projection.  Makes the objects in the middle look slightly less weird, with the edges being 'influenced' by the same perspective.  

Offline Grimsane

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #9 on: June 15, 2012, 06:44:48 pm
great suggestion Rik, essentially what I was attempting in my edit. nice pixel-work :y: did you do any character's to go with that? :D
those doors are A LOT less problematic, again I'd strongly recommend tehwexxl0rz considers such a compromise.

Offline Tourist

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #10 on: June 15, 2012, 10:23:01 pm
Get Medieval did it like this:



Steep angle on the sprites.  They also used large doors that folded into the floor rather than anything that covered the top.  You can still find the demo on the web, less than 20mb, but it doesn't run on Vista or newer.

Tourist

Offline tehwexxl0rz

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #11 on: June 16, 2012, 02:38:19 pm
Thanks for the feedback everyone! :)

Update:


Not too satisfied with the "feel" of the arm movement, but it'll do for now... must keep moving forward!

I gotta say, I'm not really interested in changing the projection for the walls. I put a LOT of thought into it (as the folks in IRC can attest) and I've found sloped orthographic walls are the best way to convey all the necessary information without "cheating" or blocking too much of the action.

PypeBros: Nice edit, but there are a few features I'd like to keep for style even if they aren't realistic (like the slouchy shoulders and exaggerated boots.) The angle of the eyes in your version is definitely more accurate, but I want to leave some some to animate her mouth when attacking. :)

Facet: You're absolutely right about the doorway clipping. I actually made another version with taller doorways but it didn't look too good, so I didn't upload. I think I'll bump the tile size up to 24x24 which will take care of it. Regarding the south wall obscuring the action, I think you misjudged the thickness of the wall at the base? It's actually quite thick - 4 tiles thick and only 2 tiles tall. The south wall should only obscure the action by 8 pixels if my calculations are correct.



Grimsane: I swear I'm not using perspective. (See above animation for "proof.") My tiles are currently 16x16... I appreciate the character edit, but your version is a pretty major departure from the style and physique of the character. I'm not really sure why you suggested the door funnels?

rikfuzz: Thanks for the example, but like I said, I'm planning to keep it all orthographic. Nice tiles, anway! :P

Tourist: Thanks for the example - that actually looks almost exactly like what I'm doing but with shorter walls! More like barriers than walls I suppose. Good too see this technique employed in some form out in the wild. :)

Offline rikfuzz

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #12 on: June 16, 2012, 03:48:46 pm
Despite your proof animation, I had to make it in 3d to actually make sure this was actually correct with the vertical bricks.  Of course, it is correct, I just have a lot of trouble seeing it correctly for some reason.  It could just be cos I spent the past few months working on the game my example tiles are from, and I'm expecting it to be similar, or it could be counter intuitive, because we're all used to seeing non slanted walls?  Pixels are all nice anyway, I'm sure it'll be less ambiguous once the edges are pixelled and it has some kind of shadows etc. 

Offline Grimsane

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #13 on: June 16, 2012, 04:57:54 pm
weird I put a 24x grid on it and it lined up with your wall tiles  :huh:
and yeah I realized the style departure, and If you have quite a few areas where you see it like that, and can walk through the door into another room Vs single rooms, or alteast animated transitions I think you'd reinforce your tile logic in the players mind relatively fast, or you could have the levels load like that animation everytime you walked into an area stupid in terms of the amount of work and breaking the illusion of a real world i know but that'd look pretty awesome :lol:

I understood what you were doing and I said perspective effect, like a few other's that commented it provides a perception conundrum, maybe just due to games of the past getting us used to other projection methods and and "camera" angles and if you get down to semantics even orthographic shares much in common with perspective, just lacking foreshortening. when we talk game perspectives in 2D art it's implied perspective, because of the 2D limitation even Isometric perspective is orthographic. that and perspective is used as a valid term for view point, not exclusively to describe the effects of distance on objects to the lense(even eyes are lenses), you wouldn't use the term look at it from his perspective if you were talking exclusively about perception of distance on things :lol: but yeah that's all a bit pedantic i suppose.

I actually like the perspective, and the funnels are used in conjunction with their collision bounds to force the player to walk through them in such a strict way to avoid the potential clipping, but you can do that with invisible bounding boxes at the door itself, but if the door is too narrow and the player moves hastily it's no fun trying to have trouble walking through doors, games you can only move in 4 directions, I'm not talking 4 animated directions i mean with no diagonal movement

you've captured the same animation dynamic quite well after the rescale  :y:

Offline Facet

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #14 on: June 16, 2012, 06:17:02 pm
(the walls are) actually quite thick - 4 tiles thick and only 2 tiles tall. The south wall should only obscure the action by 8 pixels if my calculations are correct.
Ah yeah. Yours could just be perceived similarly; like a visual illusion, a tangent created by the inclines that's hard to process visually. tbh I just wanted to compare approaches with Zelda. On that note: slick stuff, Rik :y:

Animation fluid as usual, does look like quite a power-walk with those flaired elbows and torso rotation; that girl means business ;D
« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 06:19:03 pm by Facet »

Offline tehwexxl0rz

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #15 on: June 25, 2012, 11:04:49 pm
Update:


No more clipping! The south wall should hide only 16 pixels of floor space.
I'm putting off texturing the bricks with the hope I'll find inspiration for something more unique. :/

Couldn't help myself from tweaking the run:
Made the arms a bit more relaxed, did some sub-pixel blending on the chest rotation and removed the twist from the abdomen (might bring it back though, can't decide...)

Offline PypeBros

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #16 on: June 26, 2012, 09:18:46 am
Quote
I'm putting off texturing the bricks with the hope I'll find inspiration for something more unique. :/
Bricks are bricks. Trying to make them unique will just make the wall repetitive, imho. How about some ornment instead ? tapestries, in-wall statues, niches, decorating armors or lamps ...

- -

Here's a serie of edits I made to one 'Oracle of Seasons' dungeon in order to make it look less "flat and un-appealing" that more or less show what I have in mind.
* PypeBros love the tweaked run, btw.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 09:50:02 am by PypeBros »

Offline Tourist

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #17 on: June 30, 2012, 07:28:53 pm
For texture inspiration, have a look around at some free texture packs.  Not pixel art but food for thought:



Will this environment have some vertical levels?  Stairs up to balconies, or raised platforms?  If so, consider how the stairs must be drawn to make sure they are visible (particularly descending northwards).

Tourist

Offline tehwexxl0rz

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #18 on: December 25, 2012, 09:28:06 pm
NECROOOOOOMANCYYYYYY!!! I'm working on this again!

Here's an update on the character facing north/south/east/west:


Thanks to cyangmou for his critique in IRC! :)

Thanks for the the suggestions PypeBros. When I said "unique" I was referring to the general aesthetic rather than a specific pattern - I agree that would look repetitive.
I'll definitely break it up with special ornamentation. First things first! ;)

Thanks Tourist! Unfortunately the image link is now dead, but I remember it was helpful at the time, for what it's worth!
I am indeed planning to have some vertical exploration and I've put a lot of thought into it! Here's an example 4-way stair case:



PS: MERRY CHRISTMAS!!! :)
« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 09:32:22 pm by tehwexxl0rz »

Offline tehwexxl0rz

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #19 on: December 26, 2012, 11:18:01 pm
Started working on the east/west walking animation:



Still very blobby and the perspective isn't quite high enough....

It's kind of a power walk now, but I think I might change it to an all-out run. Thoughts?

Offline Cage

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #20 on: December 27, 2012, 11:51:05 pm
That's a pretty nice walk cycle IMO, but it seems that she's a lot more muscular/heavy than in the front/diagonal frames. Also it seems that her left arm/hand (the one in the shadow) has more swing to it and moves on a more diagonal frame than the other one.

Offline tehwexxl0rz

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #21 on: January 11, 2013, 02:48:29 pm
The style I'd developed for the character really wasn't sitting well with me, so I took another crack at it:


I think it still needs some palette tweaks, but this is much closer tonally to the character in my head.

Thanks for the critique, Cage. I think the added weight you noticed was the result of removing the outlines. In any case, I'll be changing the sprite dramatically, so i'll be redoing the animations. ;)

Offline tehwexxl0rz

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #22 on: January 12, 2013, 12:06:49 am
Edited the hair so it's not so big and spiky:


Also started working on a portrait for in-game conversations (very WIP):

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #23 on: January 12, 2013, 02:25:37 am
This character has gone through quite a few iterations 0.0 at any rate the latest is very nice and clean. No suggestions from me other than to do more!

Offline pistachio

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #24 on: January 12, 2013, 02:41:54 am
Echo Ryumaru, but do keep the old hair or at least its bright color. Makes the sprite pop out more.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 02:44:24 am by pistachio »

Offline Phlakes

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #25 on: January 12, 2013, 03:50:46 am
The perspective looks a bit off, though. The head's great but the body looks much more like a front view.

And the lack of outline on the bottoms of the shoes makes it seem like it was cut off. I guess you could compensate either way, giving them a darker outline or having more not-outlined bits in general, just for consistency.

But other than that, what ^those two said. Including the hair thing.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 03:52:22 am by Phlakes »

Offline Dr D

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #26 on: January 12, 2013, 05:58:42 am
Actually, the missing outlines on bottom of sprites' feet and shoes is often done; usually to make the character feel more grounded, I think.

Offline Phlakes

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #27 on: January 12, 2013, 06:25:02 am
News to me. Although I guess it would look better on a background that isn't solid color.

Offline tehwexxl0rz

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #28 on: January 12, 2013, 02:59:52 pm
Thanks for the feedback, guys. :)

I brought some shininess back to the hair:


Phlakes, as Dr D said, the absence of outlines on the bottom of the feet was intentional. I think an outline only makes sense if there is some distance between the edge of the object and the background.

Offline tehwexxl0rz

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #29 on: January 12, 2013, 11:12:38 pm
Portrait update:


Think I'm gonna work on some enviros....

Offline Facet

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #30 on: January 12, 2013, 11:55:42 pm
Yeah, really neat sprite, less girly, more action-y this time.

Against the grain, but I much preferred the non-metallic hair; it just seems both more cohesive with the new outfit and less er, weirdly shiny.

The portrait looks like a relative of yours maybe? :P, I kid but maybe you are falling into a formula here that could preclude something more interesting? The overall shape, the angle and features are strikingly similar.

Offline BlueArctica

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #31 on: January 13, 2013, 01:07:34 am
I disagree with Facet. I think the shiny hair gives the sprite a good contrast that the one with matte hair doesn't have. Actually, the non-shiny haired sprite seems very drab to me. Just my opinion.

Also, great work on the portrait. I like it a lot.

Can't wait to see how the environments turn out!  ;)

Offline Crow

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #32 on: January 13, 2013, 09:05:34 am
I disagree with Facet. I think the shiny hair gives the sprite a good contrast that the one with matte hair doesn't have. Actually, the non-shiny haired sprite seems very drab to me. Just my opinion.

I'll have to agree with that. As I said on IRC already, wex :P The sprite without the shiny hair just looks rather dull, whereas the shiny one is interesting and more vivid.
Discord: Ennea#9999

Offline Facet

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #33 on: January 13, 2013, 11:11:10 pm
Hmm, in the face of mounting opposition maybe I should explain where I'm coming from a little better: the original was more subtle and I like it, but the reinstated version carried over into the portrait begins to look odd.

If the character design wasn't metallic hair, then it just seems like a strange thing to do purely for the sake of visibility instead of just balancing the colours of the hair/sprite as a whole. I would try putting back some of that blue elsewhere in the sprite instead or just pare it back in the portrait.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 11:34:38 pm by Facet »

Offline tehwexxl0rz

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #34 on: January 14, 2013, 02:25:03 am
Facet, thanks for sharing your perspective. You're absolutely right about the previous version looking more natural.

Metallic vs. naturalistic hair is a design choice I've been vacillating over for a while, which ties into the game's fiction a bit. There won't be any other characters with colorful hair like this. The protagonist is unusual in that her 'spiritual energy' isn't restricted to her body like a normal human's. Her blue hair is evidence of this energy kind of passively overflowing.

As a supernatural quality, it could make sense for her hair to have a strange metallic sheen, but it's really just a matter of whichever looks better.

Offline Facet

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #35 on: January 14, 2013, 08:33:47 pm
No problem, I made a bit of a mountain out of a molehill there somehow :P. As recompense, I gave the portrait a go with that explanation in mind.

I mainly just  filled out and rendered out some of the flatter stuff, reduced AA for the kind of crisp toon-shaded look I thought you were after, and of course enjoyed myself immensely doing some looser, high-gloss tousled hair; I thought the spikes as was were shaded rounder and thicker than hair ought to be (not that my example is high realism :)).



Edit: I cleaned the face up a bit & added some AA back on reflection.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 02:40:54 pm by Facet »

Offline tehwexxl0rz

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #36 on: January 31, 2013, 02:58:07 am
Facet, beauitful edit! Thank you :)

I'd like to keep the messy spiky hairstyle, but there's still a lot I can learn from your edit, especially with regards to shading the hair and defining the shapes of the face.

I think I found a happy medium for the hair in the sprite.

Update + idle animation:

Offline Psiweapon

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #37 on: January 31, 2013, 03:12:02 am
Even though I'm usually a huge fan of chibi styles, I have to say that the more adult-proportioned versions are more striking and have more personality, or at least I like them better. Maybe it's because they're less common in top-down perspectives? (or lack thereof  ;))

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #38 on: January 31, 2013, 05:23:54 am
Facet, beauitful edit! Thank you :)

I'd like to keep the messy spiky hairstyle, but there's still a lot I can learn from your edit, especially with regards to shading the hair and defining the shapes of the face.

I think I found a happy medium for the hair in the sprite.

Update + idle animation:


What you have is nice, and probably mostly " realistic" but I think in the case of a sprite this size some exaggeration would benefit. Id like to see the head and torso move up at least a subpixel.

Offline TheMonsterAtlas

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #39 on: January 31, 2013, 07:14:57 am
I think the shininess looks great in the sprite's hair, but doesn't come off too well in the portrait. Contrast is amazing when it's on a smaller scale, but when it's on a larger scale like a portrait, it creates eyeburn ;~;

Offline Psiweapon

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #40 on: January 31, 2013, 09:58:48 am
Honestly, I was wondering where the hell the idle animation was, before clicking on it two or three times for zoom. I couldn't see it.

Turn it up a notch or five, subtlety is a good ideal, but useless if it flies over the public's heads.

Offline Dusty

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #41 on: February 01, 2013, 07:14:58 pm
Honestly, I was wondering where the hell the idle animation was, before clicking on it two or three times for zoom. I couldn't see it.

Turn it up a notch or five, subtlety is a good ideal, but useless if it flies over the public's heads.

It depends on the scale the game is played at. I doubt it's going to be played at a 1x scale, so it'll probably be a lot more obvious when zoomed in. Games like Metroid had very subtle animations as well and they tend to be well-liked.

Offline Luigi_Mu

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #42 on: February 01, 2013, 07:22:53 pm
Pretty portrait there ;) Nice selected colour palette. What is the type of  pixel animation you were choosing? Frame based? Or Paper-doll?
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Offline Psiweapon

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #43 on: February 03, 2013, 12:54:50 pm
Honestly, I was wondering where the hell the idle animation was, before clicking on it two or three times for zoom. I couldn't see it.

Turn it up a notch or five, subtlety is a good ideal, but useless if it flies over the public's heads.

It depends on the scale the game is played at. I doubt it's going to be played at a 1x scale, so it'll probably be a lot more obvious when zoomed in. Games like Metroid had very subtle animations as well and they tend to be well-liked.

Of course dude, but if some sprite is meant to be seen at a fat pixel size, I expect to be shown here like that, if it's shown in 1x1 pixels only I assume that's how it's meant to be displayed.

Offline Crow

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #44 on: February 03, 2013, 02:54:50 pm
Of course dude, but if some sprite is meant to be seen at a fat pixel size, I expect to be shown here like that, if it's shown in 1x1 pixels only I assume that's how it's meant to be displayed.

Since we have a nifty zoom script here, it's always a good idea to post your work at 100% zoom, regardless of how it's being "used" later.
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Offline Psiweapon

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Re: [WIP] Action/Adventure Sprites

Reply #45 on: February 03, 2013, 04:32:25 pm
Of course dude, but if some sprite is meant to be seen at a fat pixel size, I expect to be shown here like that, if it's shown in 1x1 pixels only I assume that's how it's meant to be displayed.

Since we have a nifty zoom script here, it's always a good idea to post your work at 100% zoom, regardless of how it's being "used" later.

Unless you have the bad luck (like me) that the zoom blurs the pixels  :'(