GR#080 - RPG Tiles

[fortunato]

hello,

newest:


these are meant to be viewed at 2x zoom, but ill upload the small and the big too.




the top left corner and the green is supposed to be grass, and the grey/blue parts are two diff. versions of an inside tile, probably in a darker place or something. the bigger part of the grass (bottom 3/4s) i took the first tile and got rid of the 3 colors, colored one of the colors (the "stalks" of the grass) the same color as the highlight and i got this interesting natural looking grass effect... not sure if the messiness of it is good. looks kinda cool IMO, but id really like someone else's opinion on it.

the main problems im having is the palette. i always had trouble with picking the right palettes, and although I've gotten better by adding a bit of contrast and hue shifting and such, I'm still not sure i have it right. could anyone help me with the colors? also as stated above, any problems with the structure of the grass, etc. I'm thinking that the structure might be why i think it doesn't look so good...

i know its only like 3 diff. tiles, but I'm just starting out. c + c if you could, thanks a lot !

[fortunato]

update: ahhhhh




ahhh. i made a door, tried to make some flowers and i attempted a tree... the tree on the bottom right and the one on the grass are the newest ones. i quickly sketched/painted the tree, resized it to 48x48, and tried to clean it up... here's my reference for it:
http://www.freefoto.com/images/15/19/15_19_8---Tree--Northumberland_web.jpg

i'm kind of alright at drawing/copying real things (like with a pencil on paper), but i think i'm having trouble with making things look good small and having them communicate well. like the "iconic-ness" or "symbolic" aspect of pixel art i guess? i try to fit every detail in, but i don't think that works well in some pixel art, or at least with what i'm doing. if it did my tree would look half decent maybe haha... also i don't think that its in the right perspective... c+c please

[Redshrike]

I actually rather like the tree--you did a good job preserving the layering and feel of the canopy in the final version--but it's also out of perspective.  Your grass is in the 3/4 / top-down view so often used in classic RPGs, while the tree is viewed side-on as it would be in a sidescroller.  This makes it look sort of like it's lying down on the ground, which is a bit odd. 

[Facet]

This is a much better effort  ,

Your tree is constructed well, although it does look like you might have traced it or at least been a little slavish in your reproduction. Copying things is how you learn and ability with a pencil is invaluable but try to figure out why your reference looks the way it does and apply that information to the creation of your work.

Using tiles in profile (from the side) in a top down game is unusual, not to say it can't work. Have a look at some screenshots from popular RPG's and look at the way perspective is handled. If you're seeing the grass from above shouldn't you be looking at the tree in the same way? 

You're right that attention needs to be paid to what to draw and what to leave out when working at a small size. This is something that will come with experience, learning from your mistakes.

Try drawing out what it is you want to achieve on paper (the whole scene), then transferring those ideas to pixels.

Good luck   

[fortunato]

I actually rather like the tree--you did a good job preserving the layering and feel of the canopy in the final version--but it's also out of perspective.  Your grass is in the 3/4 / top-down view so often used in classic RPGs, while the tree is viewed side-on as it would be in a sidescroller.  This makes it look sort of like it's lying down on the ground, which is a bit odd. 

yeah thats what i thought about the perspective. looks like its just been slapped on O_O . its hard to find references that are in 3/4 or topdown view that aren't game tiles themselves.

This is a much better effort  ,

Your tree is constructed well, although it does look like you might have traced it or at least been a little slavish in your reproduction. Copying things is how you learn and ability with a pencil is invaluable but try to figure out why your reference looks the way it does and apply that information to the creation of your work.

Using tiles in profile (from the side) in a top down game is unusual, not to say it can't work. Have a look at some screenshots from popular RPG's and look at the way perspective is handled. If you're seeing the grass from above shouldn't you be looking at the tree in the same way? 

You're right that attention needs to be paid to what to draw and what to leave out when working at a small size. This is something that will come with experience, learning from your mistakes.

Try drawing out what it is you want to achieve on paper (the whole scene), then transferring those ideas to pixels.

Good luck   

thanks for the replies guys. facet, i actually got kind of inspired by seeing your edits on a few other topics on the forums; you've got a fabulous style!

yeah, i think i might look at some other game tiles and see how they construct their trees, and also try to find some different references that are more of a top down view. thanks a lot guys!

[fortunato]

update:




the bottom left ones are the new ones. used this one as a reference (2nd one from the left): http://www.nutbrownschristmastrees.com/img/trees-top-down-510x383-50perc.jpg . top right ones of the bottom left (if that makes sense haha) are "polished up"; the bigger one is no size restrictions and the one next to it is resized, cleaned up and edited so its 32 (two 16x16 tiles) tall.

i wanna say I'm actually pretty proud of this one haha. i went for a more realistic look on the far left evergreen, but it didn't really read too well, so i copied it and tried to add in more detail without making it look exactly like what the reference i used looked like. i went for a more iconic kind of thing and i think it came out a lot better! fixed the perspective i think? and i thought about what you said Facet about why trees look the way they do (i interpreted it as think about the structure of the trees and all that) and just kind of exaggerated it sorta. i also got inspired by warcraft II's trees and pokemon firered/leafgreen's trees, with the layered kind of thing.

any c+c on the trees? any structural improvements or anything?

edit:



added a highlight to the tree (bottom-most right one, and the tree on the grass tiles too). yes? no? i think it adds a bit of depth; looks ok

[Facet]

Great!

Making copies of your work, trying and comparing different thing 'forking' is an excellent habit.

Structure & perspective are sound,

I went for a more iconic kind of thing and i think it came out a lot better!

Brilliant, you should be proud! keep doing this and ever more extreme and you'll be able to draw whatever you want without reliance on specific reference. 

Pixel-wise,

• Try to limit the amount of single or double pixels and group them more smoothly
• Also try digging into the very darkest parts of the tree with the trunk colour
• experiment with greens tinted towards different colours in the lights and darks.

, 

i actually got kind of inspired by seeing your edits on a few other topics on the forums; you've got a fabulous style!

This warms my heart to hear, but keep in mind that I've tried to limit my personal preferences in my edits here by conveying an idea in the roughest sense (not always successfully). What I've posted is a result of thinking logically about structure and light, the way you interpret this starting point can be wildly different and you should experiment to your own satisfaction.

[fortunato]

This warms my heart to hear, but keep in mind that I've tried to limit my personal preferences in my edits here by conveying an idea in the roughest sense (not always successfully). What I've posted is a result of thinking logically about structure and light, the way you interpret this starting point can be wildly different and you should experiment to your own satisfaction.

yeah, i guess i actually meant your edits seem to be done very confidently and freely - it seems like you really know your stuff.

with the different colored greens, do you mean hue shifting? i've done that slightly on my palette. do you think i should try for more drastic hue shifts? i'm always worried about too much or too little contrast.

[Facet]

do you mean hue shifting?

Yes, sometimes people respond better to information phrased in an unfamiliar fashion. I think you should try pushing this and other effects much further than is cautious to ascertain what you find a reasonable, or just interesting application.

your edits seem to be done very confidently and freely

Thankyou, what you're describing (mark making & draftsmanship) is one of the chief pleasures of art for me and I'm very glad that you find it apparent. I'm constantly amazed by the amount of people who seemingly don't appreciate this quality or ascribe the effect to vague, fatuous nothings like 'soul'.

If you can recognise it, you can attain it. Pixel art won't really help you on this front, drawing from life and learning to trust your eyes and hand to work together will. Immensely so.

I'll be back tomorrow with a little diagram that might help you to visualise your ideas, keep working on improving on what you've already achieved.

  

[fortunato]

Thankyou, what you're describing (mark making & draftsmanship) is one of the chief pleasures of art for me and I'm very glad that you find it apparent. I'm constantly amazed by the amount of people who seemingly don't appreciate this quality or ascribe the effect to vague, fatuous nothings like 'soul'.

If you can recognise it, you can attain it. Pixel art won't really help you on this front, drawing from life and learning to trust your eyes and hand to work together will. Immensely so.

I'll be back tomorrow with a little diagram that might help you to visualise your ideas, keep working on improving on what you've already achieved.

no problem. and really? wow thanks dude haha, thanks a lot for the help!



edited the colors & shape of the tree a little bit (tried the hue shifting), made two versions of a water tile (by using the process in a tutorial i found here by vierbit: http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=9865.msg107103#msg107103 really smart process!), and started work on mountain tiles... just drew it without size restrictions. tried to go for more of that symbolic-over-realistic look again... the palette is wonky now. tried to imitate this purply-grey i saw on some picture of mountains. lost the picture though.

comments on the mountain? that's the part I'm having the most trouble on.

[Facet]

Per the rockface try toning down or removing the dark outlines, selectively losing them on light edges and incorporating them into shadows on the dark, Also up the contrast on the rest of the tones a bit.

With the trees, remember that saturation often decreases towards the extremes of light.

The water could be a bit too eye-catching when tiled over a large area, you should be periodically checking how individual tiles work in the context of the rest of the scene, make sure that you are consistent with your approach.


Tell me if something needs clarifying from the process below

[fortunato]

yeah, still need to study the structure of rocks more... doesn't look as good as i want it to... and yeah i thought about the water tile popping-out-ness before; i'm guessing if i change the palette to something less harsh it should turn out better?

Tell me if something needs clarifying from the process below

ah ok cool! so you're suggesting this as a process for making tiles (or i think it could be applied to a lot of different forms of art hah)? this makes sense. i usually just have an idea (or sometimes not at all, i would just really think "ok, ground tile now") and go straight into the "rendering" part (impatience, perhaps? haha) never really stopped to make concepts. its 3 and 4 i think i should work on most, though I'm thinking that if i actually implement steps 1 and 2 into my process, 3 and 4 will be easier.

thanks a lot for the post, man! people on this forum are awesome; they actually give you detailed responses and edits and they really know their stuff. they all go completely above and beyond.

[Facet]

i'm guessing if i change the palette to something less harsh it should turn out better?

You could do this, you could also fade out the tiles to a single colour over large areas or you only fully render the waves in patches. The only way to find out what might work best is try them.

I'm thinking that if i actually implement steps 1 and 2 into my process, 3 and 4 will be easier.

Absolutely correct, not only easier because you have a firm idea of what you're trying to do, but of much better quality. Of course staying flexible and taking advantage of serendipity on-route is important too.

[fortunato]

ok, so



worked on the rock wall tile thing. first one on the left is an earlier one; second one next to it is without the darkest shade and tried to add some shading in the middle... thought it looked odd. third one near the bottom right is with Facet's advice: used the darkest shade sparingly on the outlines of the rocks. looks the best out of all of them i think, but i still think it looks odd. probably cause of the structure of the rocks; i don't think it's that good... haha. but any thoughts? (also that odd blob thing is me trying to draw a realistic looking rock to better understand what a rock would look like in pixel..)

also worked on the water tile. went from the bright blue to a more cooler, darker blue. put it up against grass tiles and attempted to make a transition haha... the darker shade of blue recedes more and looks like its below the grass instead of competing with it... i like it a lot more, though i still think the water tile and the transition still look amateurish... is it the shading off the transition? is it the water tile? or is the transition just really lame?

[Atnas]

Hello! Edit for you!



Ignore the pixel tech in that, I was just dabbing madly with some new colors. Focus more on what I did with the colors/form. I added two colors to the tree, and shifted the highlights up to yellow and gave it fuller greens. You can keep the purple, that's actually a very good thing to have, I may have gotten rid of too much of it, but you shouldn't hide so much of it with green.

Might not be your intended style, but I outlined it according to the lightsource with black on the part in shadow. Also chunkified the bottom of the tree to try to get some more shape in there deviating from the cone geometry.

The water edit isn't very noticeable, but by making that one tone a bit bluer, it helps get rid of the "lines on top of a solid color" feeling that pixel water sometimes suffers from.