playing with shading (again)

[jumbopaulo]

i'm playing with shading, my biggest problem.
tell me what you think:

[coffee]

Cute sprite!

Im a bit too tired to reply but im gonna do my best!

complementary colours! That will be a great improvement just understanding. So we'll start with that.

ok, I figured that will take a whole essey to explain... So here's a link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complementary_color

Basicilly its the opposite colour on the scale from the colour that you use. Instead of just using a darker shade of green for your scared/confused creation. I would suggest you took a look
at the scale and use a different colour for your shades. Perhaps, blue? Might do it! So, im not gonna make an edit this time cos I think it's a lot better to trial and error.
There are a few other things that could use a clean up, but start out with changing your palett!

Good luck bud!

[jams0988]

Basicilly its the opposite colour on the scale from the colour that you use. Instead of just using a darker shade of green for your scared/confused creation. I would suggest you took a look
at the scale and use a different colour for your shades. Perhaps, blue? Might do it! So, im not gonna make an edit this time cos I think it's a lot better to trial and error.
There are a few other things that could use a clean up, but start out with changing your palett!

The complimentary of green is red, though. Blue is right on the side of it! =P
Also, just to dispel a popular myth before one more artist learns it, using contrary colors to shade has nothing to do with realistic lighting, and everything to do with style. Contrary colors "pop" when they're next to each other, but that doesn't mean that all green objects have red shadows, nor does it mean you should always use red to shade green, hahah.
As you've already said, coffee, blue would probably be a nicer looking choice in this case, anyway, and trial and error is the best way to find out what looks the best for what you're trying to do with a given drawing. =D

Of course, having a solid base always helps:
http://www.huevaluechroma.com/

[coffee]

Yeah It might have popped out wrong. Blue was just a suggestion and had nothing to do with complementary colours.

What I ment was; try looking for other ways to do it, not just go down in the palett, but also sideways.
A shadow is deffinatly not just a darker colour of what it hits, that will depend on the surface aswell, so complementary colours can be used for realistic pieces aswell.

However, this is not a realistic piece is it?  

[jams0988]

What I ment was; try looking for other ways to do it, not just go down in the palett, but also sideways.
A shadow is deffinatly not just a darker colour of what it hits, that will depend on the surface aswell, so complementary colours can be used for realistic pieces aswell.

Ah, okay. That's more solid advice. Though, in some cases, a shadow *is* basically just a darker color of what it hits, heheh. Usually not, though.

However, this is not a realistic piece is it?  devious

Nope. That's why your advice to just play around with it until it looked good is great advice. =D

[jumbopaulo]

thanks for the tips, guys!
i tried what you said, but i'm not sure about the final result.

so? =p

[jams0988]

Picture isn't showing up. =(

[jumbopaulo]

try now.

[jams0988]

Yep, looks much better. =)

[pistachio]

Frankly, I believe otherwise. I liked the earlier version much better.

My two cents on the value/hue-shifting discussion: The darkest color doesn't have to be completely shifted, and furthermore, values don't have to be adjusted to correspond to that. In fact, I believe hue-shifting should never be overused unless you're doing some kind of extreme palette stylization thing, which I imagine is hard to pull off without looking unnatural/overdone.

The latest version may have taken certain suggestions into account, but it also may have taken them too far. These changes also make the pillow shading more obvious. By all means, try to avoid this. And banding as well. Avoid both of them.



Mine next to yours for comparison.

Granted, this edit does look a bit less cute and cuddly and more realistic than what was, perhaps, originally intended. As long as the values are good and the direction of the light source/original drawing are clear, feel free to choose any style you want.

Note I'm not using outlines, but the forms the outlines suggest to shade the character. You're off to a good start (sphere for the body and eyes, tubes for legs, etc.), so you know what I mean. The lines around the mouth are ridges, for example; then I imagine how light falls on them when coming from a single direction. And remember, keep the general forms in mind. Don't disregard them when working onto details. Another thing to remember is to keep lights separated from darks (thanks EC!). It's a bit hard to describe, but one example: the tail's lighting, or the way the lightest color grows darker towards the outlines so that it appears pillow-shaded, are examples of what not to do.

Other things I forgot to mention: added a dim secondary light. It could well be light reflected from a sky (game character, jumping over a pit to oblivion?), or just from a bright surface. Either way, once noticed it makes things more interesting IMO.

Made the farthest foot smaller to emulate perspective distortion, and adjusted the size of the monster's right eyeball. And, by the way, watch the saturation on those mouth/pink colors. They seem to pop out too much.

[jams0988]

Frankly, I believe otherwise. I liked the earlier version much better.

My two cents on the value/hue-shifting discussion: The darkest color doesn't have to be completely shifted, and furthermore, values don't have to be adjusted to correspond to that. In fact, I believe hue-shifting should never be overused unless you're doing some kind of extreme palette stylization thing, which I imagine is hard to pull off without looking unnatural/overdone. . .
. . .Mine next to yours for comparison.

Of course if you go and redraw/reshade the whole thing, yours will look better than the original, heheh. I don't think your drawing really proves that hue-shifting is wrong in this case, though, for that reason. I went ahead and recolored your edit to make the differences more clear for the OP. =)

Honestly, I think they look about the same, aesthetically. I think the hue-shifted one has a tiny bit more pop, but your original looks a little more realistic. I'm not sure which one I'd go with, personally, hahah. =D
Edit: And then for fun, you can even hue-shift the **** out of it, if you want to:

It's starting to get dangerous around this point, though. Like you said, Pistachio, I think it'd take a lot of skill to pull off such extreme hue-shifting in a game, and still have it look good, instead of overdone.

[API-Beast]

You usually shift in the opposite direction unless you want to look it very cold or metalish.

It's starting to get dangerous around this point, though. Like you said, Pistachio, I think it'd take a lot of skill to pull off such extreme hue-shifting in a game, and still have it look good, instead of overdone.

It will always look overdone that’s why you will never find it in games. What is found more often in games and you (and/or coffee) might be/was referring to is back lighting. But back lighting isn't exactly hue shifting.

See this comparison:

First is the original, second row with 90° hue shifting, third row with 60° hue shifting. In the fourth row you see one example of back lighting.

[jams0988]

No, we meant hue-shifting. Which *is* used in games. Also, hue-shifting isn't a lighting style, like back lighting is. It's simply a technique - one that can be used to *imply* back-lighting. The sort of hue-shifting you normally see (like the example I posted) is actually basically the same as yours - it just implies a less harsh secondary light. As for your "hue shift towards red!" example, it doesn't usually make much sense. If we were outside (where I imagine this green foresty looking monster to be), it'd imply that the sky was red. It'd make sense in a lava cave, I guess...

Any of our stronger artists have a say in this? Ptoing, Helm, et al? You guys know pixel art much better than we do...

[API-Beast]

No you get me all wrong, you only use hue shifting for small differences. Instead of making bigger shifts you usually add a back light in a different color, often blue, cyan or magenta.

Take a look of the very well known tree of "Secret of Mana 3".

It uses a shift from green to blue, yes. But only in a small range. Less than the half of what you were recommending. It also uses magenta back light.

But now take a look at the other palettes used in the visible part (the first is the dirt, the second the grass and the third the rock), they all shift in the opposite direction. So the tree is more the exception than the rule.

The question is now why did they do that. I think once because they wanted a bit colder atmosphere and second to have better contrast between the background and the tree.

[jumbopaulo]

so, i read all you guys are saying, and it kind of is not helping me =p
but i'm not complaining, no way, i just think this discussion has gone far away from the primary objective of the topic, give opinions about what i did. 
i don't think i'm gonna play with the hue shifting thing. not yet.
just take a look at the first sprite i posted, and just give me opinions about it's shading, what i could do to improve.

[jams0988]

so, i read all you guys are saying, and it kind of is not helping me =p
but i'm not complaining, no way, i just think this discussion has gone far away from the primary objective of the topic, give opinions about what i did.
i don't think i'm gonna play with the hue shifting thing. not yet.
just take a look at the first sprite i posted, and just give me opinions about it's shading, what i could do to improve.

Really? =P
Coffee posted with links to help you out. I posted with a refute and yet another link to help you out. (My link, btw, contains *EVERYTHING you need to know about color theory, ever. (*almost)). Pistachio took things even further, with a full paint over that looks like it took about five times longer to make than your original did. After that, I supplied two alternate palette's for said remake. Mr. Beast came in and colored the damned thing in like ten more times for you. And then he posted reasons why he shaded them the way he did, complete with professional examples.

Basically, we spent about ten times more effort discussing and readjusting your picture than you spent making it. And now you're asking us how to make your drawing better?!
You didn't even apply what we talked about in here yet! Go take a look at jumbo's repaint, and work from there. Let's see some art from you, hahah! =P

Anyway, if you want my HONEST honest opinion, as someone who's been drawing for ten years, I'd tell you not to worry too much about the pixel art for now if you're really focusing on learning; you'll learn the basics of how to shade and stuff much more quickly using a pencil than you will a mouse and MS-Paint. Of course, if you're having fun doing pixel art, continue to do that, too. Just know that it probably won't be as much practice for you as a pencil will. A pencil's much quicker than a mouse, after all. =)

http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/art_tut.htm

There's a really general, good, art tutorial that gets passed around a lot. I whole heartedly recommend it to you, kouhai. It'll get you started in your quest, at least. =D

And then after that one, read through this one: http://www.huevaluechroma.com/
It might be tough to work through, but if you can't even get through that, then abandon all hope, ye of short attention span! X3

Also, draw from life, or at least photo reference. If you don't know how your monster should be shaded, go find a monster and draw him. Oh, monsters aren't real? Well, then go something approximate (a pear? Green apple?) and then draw that instead. Stick arms and some eyes on there when you're done if that pleases you. Drawing from life will teach you a *lot,* so do it often. Good luck!

[Phlakes]

so, i read all you guys are saying, and it kind of is not helping me =p
but i'm not complaining, no way, i just think this discussion has gone far away from the primary objective of the topic, give opinions about what i did. 
i don't think i'm gonna play with the hue shifting thing. not yet.
just take a look at the first sprite i posted, and just give me opinions about it's shading, what i could do to improve.

This is what happens when you get professional pixel artists started.

Anyway, I simplified pistachio's edit and yours to make it clear-



The thing is round and very spherical, so it should be shaded like a sphere. Your shading basically uses two midtones with a bit of shadow around the outline.

Also, you need to clean up your lines. The tail looks like it was outlined with a pencil tool and never refined.

[jams0988]

...And yet another edit. I could spend six hours on something tomorrow, and I'd be lucky to get a few replies saying "it sucks, change everything." = =
You'd better draw something nice tonight with all these edits and advice, Jumbo. Because if I wake up tomorrow and you still don't have any new artwork in here, I'm going to find you and beat you to death with a wet loofa. XD

Show us what you've learned, and we'll go from there! :3

This is what happens when you get professional pixel artists started.

lol, yup. Our art rage just proves that we love what we do. I'd be sad if nobody on here wanted to argue with me, hahah!
Nice edit, btw. o/

[jumbopaulo]

i know, i know you're trying to help me, maybe i'm not used to this kind of help =p
it can also be the language barrier, i think i don't understand everything you guys say.
i promise i'll show you guys something new based in the tips (i already started to change the original munster up there).
sorry if i sounded rude. here's some love <3
(*grumble* these artists... =p)