AuthorTopic: Death rides a substitute...  (Read 11030 times)

Offline Tremulant

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Death rides a substitute...

on: May 10, 2006, 10:33:29 pm
...or "the new guy's an ass".  ::)
The problem with being the immortal lord of death is that your trusty steed has to be replaced every dozen years or so. This time, all the horses were on vacation... in Tijuana... so the good old Grim ended up riding a pale mule instead.

Older Versions:
http://h1.ripway.com/tremulant/deathmule.PNG
http://h1.ripway.com/tremulant/deathmule2.PNG
http://h1.ripway.com/tremulant/deathmule3.PNG

Final(?) Version:


Tell me what needs fixing so I can prevent unnecessary suckage.

Thanks to all for the excellent crits. Unless there are still glaring flaws I think I'll call it done.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2006, 11:26:43 am by Tremulant »

Offline Darien

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #1 on: May 10, 2006, 11:08:49 pm
Hey tremulant.

I really like this.  Great use of color.  A few things that bug me, though:

-The way the donkey's eyes are so far down on his head.  I guess this could be more of personal preference as it could be considered a stylistic choice, I guess, but it really bugs me. 

-The horizon, although I don't know if I'd call it a horizon because the ground just blends into the sky. Or was that dithered land supposed to be land that gets more desaturated as it gets farther away? If so, I don't know if it's effective, although it is hard to notice at first.

-Death's arm is just a single bone, although it should be the fibula and tibia if we were to go for anatomical accuracy. I mean I know that if you were to draw a complete (unclothed) skeleton in this style no one would expect you to have all those bones completely accurate, but I think the arm is central enough in this piece and simple enough that it warrants a more accurate representation.

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #2 on: May 10, 2006, 11:20:57 pm
haha this is great man, very nice work!  I agree about the arm bone crit, but I actually love the donkey's eye placement...very funny!

Offline Turbo

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #3 on: May 10, 2006, 11:27:04 pm
This made me lol. The look on the donkey is great. On this point i disagree with Darien on the eyes, their placement tells a lot from the character's mood, i wouldn't change them. The pose on Death is funny too. Great palette, as usual.

The thing that i noticed that bothered me a bit (it's a nitpick, really), is that the perspective seems correct on the donkey's legs and hooves, but not so much on both the figures, other than that.

Oh, and now that Darien mentioned it, the arm bone thing too :) Maybe make Death's face more evil, he's looking kinda cool now, maybe a bit annoyed by the stock shortage on mounts. Not that there's anything wrong with that expression.

Offline Tremulant

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #4 on: May 11, 2006, 12:27:21 am
Thank you, guys, for taking the time to do some serious crittage. This is exactly the type of stuff I'm looking for, so much love to you. ;)

Darien: I see your point about the eyes, and true donkey anatomy must be spinning in it's grave (assuming it's dead, which it is, cuz I killed it ;D). I placed the eyes where I did to try to emphasize the expression (which is meant to be a stubbourn, mildly annoyed look), so chances are high that I won't change them too-too much. I may tweak them a bit though, cause the way they're placed now brings the shape of the donkey's head into serious question, so...

The horizon... yeah... :P The actual horizon line is that little mark near the base of the tree. I didn't want to carry it across the whole picture, because a single, flat horizon seemed weird to me. Honestly though, no horizon at all makes even less sense. I'm kind of drawing a blank as far as background work is concerned, so hopefully that's something you guys can help me with.

Oh, and the arm, yeah. That was just carelessness, and I'll be fixing it now that you've pointed it out.

AdamAtomic: Thanks, I like the eyes too, but like I said, the donkey's head shape is now seriously questionable. I'm impressed that all of you guys picked up on the arm bone thing. That's the kind of thing I've gotta start paying attention to (both when drawing and critting), 'cause I (obviously) would've missed it. ;)

Turbo: I knew the perspective was fooked, and it probably has something to do with the fact that I drew this as a single piece, in parts. In order for me to get the perspective right, I would have to first draw the donkey, then death (naked, to get the form right) then add clothes. That's what I should have done, too, but in actuality I just did a sketch, decided it was good to go, and coloured it in (sloppy sloppy sloppy :P).
I'm believe I will screw around with his expression, but I think he should look more, like, 'funny-annoyed' than evil. I dunno though, he is death... any opinions on this?

Thanks again guys, great crits. I'll be updating with them in full mind, next time I get a chance.

Offline Xion

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #5 on: May 11, 2006, 12:37:12 am
In regards to the donkeys expression:
I really quite like it, but, until you said that he was supposed to be displaying stubbornness/annoyance, I assumed he(?) was simply oblivious to the presence of death or bored. I think that in order to get the look you want, you might want to consider adding a mouth and giving him more expression than simply heavy eyelids. (ie. Rolling his eyes or looking at death with one eyebrow raised in a kind of "Who do you think you are?" look.)

Just to be buggy, the donkey's nostrils seem offset; either the right one is too far right or the left one is, uh, too far right.

Everything else has already been said, so I guess all I have left for this is praise. Lookin' really cool.

Offline Dhaos

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #6 on: May 11, 2006, 01:17:57 am
Hehe, this is awesome XD. You know you didn't AA his front two hoves, bad tremulant =P. I love the donkey's expression though, he's got the 'get the hell off my back'. The 'dwarf' proportion feel you gave the piece is great too. Death kinda looks like he's saying 'please...just go' Also you *might* have waisted one black tone again o.o. I can tell its there, but I'm not sure if adds alot the whole piece considering its current shading style. Hmm also I think the perspective of the donkey's eyes is different from that of his nostrils and body. Gives a goofy look, but somehow I doubt it was indented giving the very obvious perpsective. Still a great piece, I'm just bored and nit picky tonight *needs more sleep*...

Offline Gnarf

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #7 on: May 11, 2006, 01:32:30 am
Well, pretty much all crits that I can see have been said, so instead...an appraisal.  You're sense of dithering is awe-inspiring.  I think I may study this piece to get an idea of it.  Nice work!

Offline Tremulant

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #8 on: May 11, 2006, 03:22:01 am
An update, with (hopefully) many of the suggestions addressed.

The second bone was added to the arm, the donkey's expression was changed, and a background (which fully exposes my lack of ability for backgrounds) was added. Also added a dab of AA on the hooves, and tinkered with some stuff in general.

Xion: I think I fixed the donkey's expression. The idea to add a mouth was spot on, I think, and I hope he also looks more eye-rolly now.I hope he looks a bit put out now, to say the least. The nostrils, too, I think I fixed. That, like the bones of the arm, was a result of carelessness, so... hooray! One step closer.

Gnarf: If my work is helpful to you then I couldn't be happier, but there are soo many people who are soo much better than me... I can feel my ego inflating  :-*

Dhaos: I tried to address some of what you mentioned here in the update, but I was pretty well finishing up around the time you posted so I'll hopefully get to it in more detail in the next one. I worried about the wasted dark, too, but here's my problem: this is what it looks like without the darkest:

Kinda washed out, I think. On the otherhand, if I remove the darkest, then darken that second darkest one to compensate, I find it looks messy, and rough. I dunno, this seems to be my biggest problem with pixelling in general at the moment, and it's something I'd really like to overcome. In other words, any help on this'll (from anyone) earn you, like, 36 points, minimum, and everyone knows points are the key to being awesome. About the eyes, it's something I'm gonna look at, cause I see what you mean. I'll mess around with em at some point, tomorrow probably, and see what comes of it.

Thanks guys, again. Keep the crits flowing, they've been gold so far.

***edited for formatting reasons***

Offline setz

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #9 on: May 11, 2006, 04:33:36 am
I love it and want it tatoo'ed on my body. small crits; the AA on his pointing hand seems to be abit off, and on the top of the donkey's legs, I noticed his back leg was smoothly selout'd into his body, but his front leg was not? i love the colors, especially the blue. and I love this piece :) it screams "i'm awesome!"

[edit] also the ass's ass seems to just be gradient'd as if there were no form to it. but did I mention I love it? I love it.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2006, 04:56:36 am by setz »

Offline Wayuki

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #10 on: May 11, 2006, 07:55:49 am
If removing the darkest color makes the piece washed out or choppy, then it isn't a wasted dark, IMHO. o_O

Offline Tinygiant

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #11 on: May 11, 2006, 10:27:12 am
I love this, colour choice works perfectly for the subject matter, that Mule is so damn cute, the folds in death cloak look ace, only thing thats a little out of place is deaths armour clad legs, it's minor tho, great work.

Offline Helm

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #12 on: May 11, 2006, 12:04:47 pm
Wouldn't say the original had a wasted dark shade.

Offline Dan

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #13 on: May 11, 2006, 03:42:29 pm
I love this! So funny! I love the colours all 9 of them :o :D The dithering you have used is good (when i use it, it looks cheese grated) and i think the AA is pretty darn neet ASS well! (Sorry lame joke)

Dan
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Offline DrDerekDoctors

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #14 on: May 11, 2006, 03:56:05 pm
Very cute indeed, although the armour on the legs seems a little out of place. Love the mule's squashed face and sullen look. :)
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Offline Dhaos

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #15 on: May 11, 2006, 04:26:20 pm
Hmm hmm hmm... I guess my last bosses were right when they asked if something was wrong with my vision. I can't tell a whole lot of a difference with that last dark tone removed. (this is probably why I can't drive at night, everything looks so blurred >_<..) My apologies for bringing it up.

Staring at it again I kinda see what everyone is saying... and I noticed without the last dark tone you would only be shading his robe with 3~4 tones...which is why the last dark tone is necessary to help balance things out I suppose. I really need to get my vision checked once I got enough money *looks around dazedly*

Offline Rox

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #16 on: May 11, 2006, 04:41:43 pm
Hmm hmm hmm... I guess my last bosses were right when they asked if something was wrong with my vision. I can't tell a whole lot of a difference with that last dark tone removed. (this is probably why I can't drive at night, everything looks so blurred >_<..) My apologies for bringing it up.

Oh, don't worry, you CAN see it. It's just hard to compare when not having them side by side, especially when trying to detect dark shades against this bright a background. Here you go; Don't tell me you don't see it now.





This is looking great,Tree-mule-ant. I really dig the donkey, and the colors are nothing short of amazing really.

Offline setz

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #17 on: May 11, 2006, 09:34:13 pm
I personally like it better with the added dark shade, it gives it life. without it it kinda looks dull.

Offline Gnarf

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #18 on: May 11, 2006, 11:19:14 pm
I liked the original better but the new one has a nice tint to it.  Looks good!

And yes, your work, along with several others (Helm, Adarias, and a few whose names I forgot) are very influential.  They're all mixed styles, and I hope to be that good some day.

Offline Darion

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #19 on: May 12, 2006, 12:02:21 am
I have aboslutely no critiques. I'll just say that i'm loving your shit lately and its all really inspiring.

Heart jew.
@darionmccoy

Offline Tremulant

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #20 on: May 12, 2006, 11:47:09 pm
No aplogies, Dhaos. Like I said, the wasted darks thing seems to be my biggest problem, so even if you think that maybe you see one, you get a million sex points just for bringing it up.

The biggest thing that's come up since last update seems to be the armour on the legs. Here's my rationale: I wanted to maintain the chubby/dwarfy look that I feel this has, and a (literally) bony leg just can't do that. Originally, his legs were covered by cloak, but I realized pretty quickly that that didn't work cause of the wasy he's sitting. So yeah, that's... yeah. As always, though, I'm open to suggestions, especially if people feel this takes away from the pic.

Oh, and the ass' ass' gradient thing, as mentioned by Setz. That was my lame attempt at implying a cast shadow from death onto the donkey's bum (hehe, bum). I'll try and tweak it, cause I see what you're saying. Maybe making the edge harder would help?

Other stuff that came up (or didn't) that I intend to fix:
*The AA overall, as many many jaggies remain (to quote Dhaos: bad tremulant!)
*Maybe adding another shade between the scond to dark and the main blue (of the robes) to help smooth things out. Having 10 shades (hopefully) wouldn't end the world, after all. The doney's shading seems alot more smooth to me than deaths, and it distracts me ;D
*Something else? ...I'm sure there was something.

Thanks to all. I will personally be copulating with all who commented, so watch your backs. ;)

Offline Tremulant

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #21 on: May 13, 2006, 03:13:59 am
Sorry for the double post...but updated. Is this legal?  :o

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #22 on: May 13, 2006, 04:10:19 am
id make that tree lighter, right now it seems to be on the same plane as death and his mule.

Offline Tremulant

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #23 on: May 14, 2006, 11:30:18 am
Updated, hopefully in finished form. Any glaring faults, point 'em out and make me smile. Otherwise... done? My only concern now is that it's been too AA'd, to the point of being blurry...

Thanks again for all the help, guys.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2006, 11:34:35 am by Tremulant »

Offline miascugh

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #24 on: May 14, 2006, 12:05:31 pm
it looks just fine on my screen, not blurry at all. absolutely lovely, and, except for the monochromatic colorscheme, very reminiscent of monsoon2d's work i think

Offline David

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #25 on: May 14, 2006, 03:30:08 pm
I understand that it's a stylistic skull, but the nose area is bothering me. It looks as though he has a nose made of bone, the way you have the two nostril openings like that.

Offline Tremulant

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Re: Death rides a substitute...

Reply #26 on: May 14, 2006, 04:07:24 pm
miascugh: High praise, since both yourself and monsoon are way up on my list of favorites. :D

Davidhahaha Christ... How did I miss that? thanks David. *fixed*