[WIP] Boss Monsters

[Lazy Brain Games]

I'm near completing 2 of the 3 bosses for an upcoming game, so thought I'd post them up for some critique I'm still learning, but I like to think this is an improvement over my previous games. At this point, I'm stuck with the palette I've chosen, which is this...



I'm hoping this palette won't hurt anyone's eyes too much!

Here's the straight image of one of the bosses, the classic eyeball boss...


And here he is in the game (obviously there's some issues with the HUD )


This one still has a couple of problem areas, but I'm interested in any glaring issues you might be able to find

This other one, I'm not quite sure what it's supposed to be yet lol.I'm just calling him "Boss 1" at this point


Boss 1 in-game...


Love it? Hate it? Let me know! I'd like to get a feel for how close these are to done before I start on the final boss.

-Johnny B.

[ptoing]

I like how it looks, very reminiscent of old arcade games and stuff like mega drive/pc engine and such.

The biggest problem IMO is your palette. It is very unoptimised.
Do you need 3 colours which are almost black? Do you need that really dark green? Do you need that eggshell colour which is very close to the yellow actually? Do the darker red and the lighter blue need to be so saturated? Why only one grey?

Greys are awesome as buffer shades and you could probably use 3 or so greys, or at least 2. And I would make one of those near black colours full black.

I would say try and tweak the palette some more before doing more art and then refit the done art to the new palette.

[Lazy Brain Games]

Unfortunately, I'm past the point of no return with this palette Too much artwork has already been created. But, I was kind of thinking ahead and trying to formulate the palette for this game specifically. This is a 3-part series, the second of which is plant filled, so the dark green will be the main background color in that one.

Admittedly, the colors are garish, but for a game like this I'm crossing my fingers that players will forgive my lack of color knowledge (luckily no players have noticed my crazy palettes yet lol). You're totally right about the grays, they're extremely useful!

Next time around I'll be sure to get some more grays in there lol. Thanks for the reply!

[devinode]

This really takes my eyes on a trip. It really is interesting and arcade esque, as earlier mentioned. I wish that I had something to contribute, but seeing that your skill is beyond mine, I'll just applaud     

[Mathias]

Unfortunately, I'm past the point of no return with this palette Too much artwork has already been created. . .

It's pixel art. If you slapped a bunch of your art into one document (I don't know what prog you use) and conducted palette edit tests, like ptoing is suggesting, and got to watch how the edits affected your game art in real-time, and the edits required no actual re-pixelling edits to your tiles and sprites it may be WELL worth the effort. Going back and doing palette swaps on pixel art isn't that tough. I'm sure you have many individual files to deal with.

It's an investment VS returns issue is all. Is the time/effort investment worth it?  I suspect it is. ptoing is probably the guy I'd go to for palette suggestions, it seems to be one of his strengths, so try to take his advice seriously. ptoing is also the guy I'd to go if I wanted to smack someone around, btw.


. . .we both have brainatars. . .

[Lazy Brain Games]

Well, I will admit I do feel silly asking for advice and then not listening lol. Although, most of my resistance to a new color palette stems from the fact that I'm desperately trying to get this game completed, I have 2 more to make after this one!

I think the best course for me will be to get this game into Alpha before I re-tweak any of the colors. When I posted this, I was more interested in if things "read" right, or if there was a lighting problem or something. But things always seem to go back to the palette. For some reason this still surprises me

I really respect your guys' opinions and appreciate you taking the time to try and guide a noob like myself. I'm just kind of crunching to get this game out the door. But you're totally right, I gotta work on the palette to make the visuals pop a little more

Once most of the artwork is populated, I'll post a master image with everything, and then take it from there. At least that way if I have to rework things, it can all be done at once.

Thanks for your help!

[Mathias]

No, I didn't think you weren't listening. It's not like if you go to a crit forum you're obligated to do everything everyone tells you to do. Not at all.

I'd love to see ptoing do a color edit on your stuff, he could comp the stuff in this thread and in yer other thread together and make global adjustments using his ptoingliness. How about it, ptoing? Maybe you can create the pal for his next game.

But, really, for the record, I loved these gfx from the 1st time I saw 'em. Not often is a dev brave (or crazy?) enough to make a whole game with a pal like this. The pal alone automatically imbues the game with a degree of originality. That's a great thing.
Now, aesthetics is one thing. But function another. You've heard the phrase 'form over function'. That's bad. If your game hearkens to form over function it means you've favored looks over functionality - playability, visual readability (does the user char get lost in the crazy high-contrast bg tiles, are projectiles hard to see and track with your eye because they get lost in the colorful chaos, etc?), well-tuned game mechanics, controls, etc.

I don't care how amazing any game looks, if it's annoying to play, I hit the 'X' button. I'll look at screenshots on the web instead if the art is worthy.

[big brother]

I feel like you should pay attention to the value range, too. It needs a better buffer between the current highlights and shadows. Maybe the second-to-brightest red should be darker? I feel intermediate values could help flesh out the mockup like a scene, giving depth and weight to your shapes.

It would be a shame to be "stuck" with the palette. I'm sure a few common color transplants would look good on all the art you've done on this project so far.

[Lazy Brain Games]

Well, I was kind of on a streak, so I started the last boss. So, I think just doing all the artwork at this point makes sense. Once it's all done, I can go back sometime between Alpha and Beta to get some more mid-range stuff goin'. Once I polish off these bosses, there isn't too much else besides some cutscene stuff

While he's an anatomical nightmare for sure, I do like the rib cage so far Although he kinda looks like he's coming out of a birth canal or something, not sure if I want to make this game THAT freaky lol. This boss is going to have a few different phases, so there's going to be a bit more besides this, but this is definitely the "money shot" for me lol.



Thanks again everyone!

-Johnny B.

[Helm]

How is your screen calibrated? Are you sure we're looking at the same thing you're looking at when you work at it? I mainly messed with the values of your colors just so I can see what's going on. These are some strange color choices. Not that I don't like them, but they need extra care to convey the shapes you're trying to convey.

[Lazy Brain Games]

lol. My monitor is calibrated lol. I suppose part of the reason for picking such dark colors is that I'm trying to make things a bit scary, which is hard to do if you can see all the detail on something. While I certainly haven't been been basing my choices on this pic in particular, this is the sort of super-dark/highlight effect that I'm going after...

I'm pretty sure I can't post anything other than pixel art, so here's a link to a familiar sight, one of Giger's alien designs from the Aliens movie...

http://lazybraingames.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/aliendroolhansuedigiger.jpg

[EDIT]

Here's a pic of the Nightmare King from Little Nemo, this is sort of a pixelated (and slightly brighter) example of what I'm after...



Of course there's a number of things I've done totally inconsistent with this picture, but as far as the lighting, this is what I'm aiming for. Just enough light to let the player know what they're looking at, which I think might shed some light on my color choices (bad pun intended). Is there a name for this type of lighting? Anyway, the "low exposure" effect is what will keep things a bit edgy (at least that's my thinking). I suppose I never really articulated that, but I didn't really think about it that hard 'till I saw your edit.

Thanks for that edit! That really helped me understand what the heck I've trying to do! I guess I could call this "Retro Noir" if I wanted to be gimmicky about it Not a bad idea actually. Surely there's a better way to develop a palette for something like this, what that method would be... I have no idea Somebody must of thought to do something like this in a game at some point... right?

Thanks again!

[StaticSails]

Surely there's a better way to develop a palette for something like this, what that method would be... I have no idea

Oh, and read up on stuff:
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=4306.0

Oddly enough I did show you how Arne (and the rest of the forum) developed a palette. PLEASE, read this otherwise you are honestly wasting your time here.

[Mathias]

I think Lazy is taking in some valuable pixel tech lessons here. Not just pixel stuff, but art aesthetics in general really. That's time well spent I think.

Lazy, so you're trying to make your bosses look shiny with sharp specular highlights, draping them in shadow for a little extra fear factor effect. Because I agree, leaving more in darkness can be scarier; let the mind fill in the blanks. But you're not using your highlights quite right to achieve that glistening shiny material effect. Ironically, Arne actually covers this too, in some tutorial page of his . . . somewhere. Love the Alien reference, probably my favorite monster design of all time. To improve - place very bright tiny highlights on rounded areas. Hmm, may be time for an edit. . .


[EDIT] Edit:



Enlarged surrounding black area to make darkest purple shade more visible.
I assume this'll be played fullscreen, so my edit is more like in-game. Maybe.
A few other shape/lighting enhancements made.
(click to make double-pixel like your stuff.)

[Jad]

TAG TEAM ATTACK MATHIAS *high fives and continues combo*



' U '

I seriously have nothing to say about this edit. It's very .. here and there. Some things you should disregard completely, such as the ribs. Well, not the meaty parts, but the shading and rendering of the ribs themselves, cause they're pretty horrible to be honest! One of the birth canals (yeeeeahhh) has got a blue tint to differentiate from the rest of his purple red meatiness, another doesn't, I don't know which works best.

Speculars follow the same idea that mathias presented.

Sorry for the sheer amount of pixel fudgery and AA and shit in places, I'm just overindulging ):

JUST LISTEN TO MATHIAS, basically. But take a good look at my edit too

EDIT-Just wanting to say that I'm not rendering it as efficiently and clearly as I could - I very much enjoy the fact that the color clusters not only describe form but also form unsettling shapes with unnerving colors. - the fact that what the hell you're looking at is hard to make out is a very nice element that helps create an unnerving atmosphere! The brain switches between making out forms and trying to find clues and symbols and patterns in the pixels. It's all good stuff, basically! ' D ' this is actually very inspiring for a project I'd like to undertake one day!

Also, while your pixel level isn't the highest, your creativity and designs are very nice. Be proud!

And I changed one of the colors to see better what the hell I was doing, haha, but basically I REALLY like your pallette and think it's super fun to work with. The fact that it's fundamentally broken makes for a delightfully sick feeling in everything you make with it.

[Lazy Brain Games]

Wow, thanks guys! I think I have a pretty firm grasp on what needs to happen now Now I'm hoping it at least makes sense why I chose the palette I did These are some really great edits! You both have so much more pixel skills than I do! I'm used to making all the assets for a game in 2 days, so I've never had an opportunity to really think about any this stuff. I'm really glad I've slowed down for this one, the game will be far better for it!

Both of these edits make the boss look far more scarier than before, some really great work! I'm still absorbing all the info discussed here, but it's obvious I have to go back and work on a few things One addition I'd love to make, if there's time, is to strobe the highlights when the boss is breathing fire or whatever. That ought to make for some pretty cool visuals!

Thanks again! I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out with this. With any luck I'll have a playable alpha build in a couple of days on the indie db.

[EDIT]

Sorry StaticSails, I didn't see you reply there A while back I did take a look at that thread, and the current palette I came up with is a result of that. This is a testament to my overall dumbness when it comes to color. I never intended to start another discussion about palettes, they just always seem to end up that way. I've been a bit blindsided by this whole thing Players usually tell me "great graphics!" which is nice, but everyone on these forums knows they're... less than great lol. I think what I'm lacking is a straight-ahead "How to make a 16 color palette for your game" tutorial. Can anyone recommend a book for pixel art/computer palettes?

[ChadHachey]

I don't really have any crits to add, but I came across a thread about palettes that may be of some help to you.

[Ichigo Jam]

This thread about Arne's 16 colour palette definitely worth a read if you haven't already:
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=4306.0