GR#056 - Platform Adventure - Sideview, Scenery, Sprites

[Decroded]

This has turned into a bit of a scapbook for my WIP of a Game Maker platform engine.

As this is my first real attempt at both game programming (have other programming experience) and pixel art (just used to sketch when I was much younger), I am very much looking for c+c on the graphics as well as any suggestions and cool ideas for the game design and concept.
Latest playable demo is here if anyone is interested but its just a bunch of random test rooms at this point - http://gmc.yoyogames.com/index.php?showtopic=510554

Latest:






Old:

[Savick]

Looks fairly good except for the text like you said. I'm curious as to why there are cross hairs. I like dungeon crawlers and the world needs more 2D ones. Good luck to ya.

[Decroded]

Looks fairly good except for the text like you said. I'm curious as to why there are cross hairs. I like dungeon crawlers and the world needs more 2D ones. Good luck to ya.

Thanks for the positive feedback :-)
I know text is quick an nasty :-o

There is a xhair because you move with WASD and aim/attack with mouse.
Also you can look around with the mouse to move the view (limited).
I'm not really happy with that xhair but haven't had much luck making it look any better...

I'm so indecisive about where I should go with it (so many possibilities!!) so for now I keep coding stuff that I can use which ever way it goes.
My first game programming experience anyway so its all a great learning experience.
I really love games like Metroid and Shadow Complex (download frmo from xbox live!!!), but I want to give a bit more of an RPG element.
I've been thinking about a quasi-leveling system where you gain XP as you go along that you can spend any time (sort of like God of War) to level up all the different abilities instead of having to wait until you achieve the next level to spend points.
I suppose game design not really the topic for these forums but I still welcome any feedback in that area :-)

[Decroded]

Updated my dungeon door so thought I would post the progress for some feedback.

Before:


After:


And here is as animated GIF, actually my first ever animated GIF ^,^

The speed is about the same as in game.
I could add more frames but I don't want it to take long to go between rooms anyway so probably won't add more...

[KevinTrepanier]

Great door! The animation is smooth. I don't see any needs for more frames.

However I think the shadow could be improved. The part that is near the hinges should stay in the light. The shadow should appear gradually from the handle first and on to the hinges. This should give it more depth.

[ZargonX]

Looking good!  The second version of the door is a nice improvement.  Would love to see an animated version of the player when you have it.

[Decroded]

Great door! The animation is smooth. I don't see any needs for more frames.

However I think the shadow could be improved. The part that is near the hinges should stay in the light. The shadow should appear gradually from the handle first and on to the hinges. This should give it more depth.

Thanks yeah you're right, that shadow never sat quite right with me either so basically I think the angle needs to increase of just staying in arch shape.
I'll fix that when I get time.

[Decroded]

Looking good!  The second version of the door is a nice improvement.  Would love to see an animated version of the player when you have it.

Will post when I get a chance although its pretty shockingly bad haha.
I cheaped out in a lot of ways like his torso doesn't move when he walks etc.

[Stefano]

Hey, it's quite nice!

My only critiques would be:
1. I think there's too much noise (stray single pixels and unpatterned dither) going on, though. It's as if everything is rugous or spongy.
My tip would be: create less lines/dots of colour (except when the crisp look is required!) and work with more defined and strategically placed areas of colour, dithering with moderation.

2. The calves of your character are too perpendicular to the ground, which makes him look unbalanced, as if he's sitting on something to hold the pose.
Try to crouching in front of a mirror. You'll see your knee will go forward and the calf will necessarily follow it, leaning forward.

[infinitegames]

Updated my dungeon door so thought I would post the progress for some feedback.

Before:


After:


And here is as animated GIF, actually my first ever animated GIF ^,^

The speed is about the same as in game.
I could add more frames but I don't want it to take long to go between rooms anyway so probably won't add more...

I'm loving this improvement. My main criticism for the main screenshot is that everything looks good, but slightly bland. This takes a door that is good and makes it much more interesting and lively. I think your main character and this door are the pieces that have the most spark of them all so far.

For your backgrounds, I'd make the dark bricks slightly less black and make tiles to show that the front bricks are casting shadows on the back ones to give the setting more depth and at the same time, connect them so that they are more obviously part of the same scene. Right now, the door is supposedly resting up against a wall that is much, much darker than it. It makes the door look like it's floating. I think your front bricks look too "mannered". Add something to break up the repetition. You've done some stuff so far to help this, but take it a step or two further.

I like the little items a lot. The switch needs a little work.

And the ladder and the treasure box are, in my opinion, the worst parts of this. The ladder looks flat and the box looks like you haven't spent much time on it.

This is really promising, so I hope you keep posting updates

[Decroded]

IThanks appreciate the comments agree with everything. Really helps me with direction to improve. Already aware of sone points just wish I had more time ie. Quit my job lol!
Probably won't waste time with main character right now as my friend going to help me with sketches for animations as well as design some orcs and skeletons and stuff and his drawing skills r kick ass so I cant wait to colour and pixelize.
Main character redesign will probably be a pretty bland costume initially (but less condom-headed) and then do a stack of modifications for all the diff weapons and apparel.

[Decroded]

Quick colour edit and basic shadows added.
Any comments about new colours?
I was playing around with the HSV in Photoshop and was trying to go for colder colours in the darker with warmer in the light but I'm really new to colours so any tips are appreciated (like general rules for HSV??).


UPDATE: kept playing around and added some extra tiles to sex up the background a bit though needs a few more variation tiles.
Some bricks near ladder are actually cracked but it is barely visible  
I'm pretty happy with how the columns came out though  



Also some various swords that might be seen while progessing through the game...


Tried to fix shadow on dungeon door (small change):

UPDATE:
Updated door texure instead of random pixeling and added detail.

[Decroded]

I'm kind of using this place like a scrapbook  
I know this is bad, bad graphics lol.
Its actually the first tile set I made just to have something to start programming the game (my first game too - solo project so far).
Posting here for reference as I will be working on replacing this tileset soon with something that isn't so freakin hideous - hopefully!!  



P.S. Oh and I know there shouldn't be grass in a cave lol

[Ambient]

I think you need more variation in the foreground tiles, because as of now, there's only a few that I see. This is where decay really comes into place, out of the janitor's reach. Maybe have some tunnels dug by escaping prisoners/hungry dragons, attempted tunnels running into something impermeable, and simple smashed bricks. They have a lot of weight on them. And lastly, I'd add some stains, especially near the surface. For one, I don't see any toilets...

[Decroded]

I think you need more variation in the foreground tiles, because as of now, there's only a few that I see. This is where decay really comes into place, out of the janitor's reach. Maybe have some tunnels dug by escaping prisoners/hungry dragons, attempted tunnels running into something impermeable, and simple smashed bricks. They have a lot of weight on them. And lastly, I'd add some stains, especially near the surface. For one, I don't see any toilets...

Lol! Good suggestions I'll try that next time I get back to that tileset.
Still screwing around trying to do some decent rock textures at the moment to redo the cave tiles.
1.) 2.)

Still a long way to go...

edit:
1)

[Mathias]

Ew, that latest mockup is so low-contrast. Darken up that bg. The door's detail level and general caliber blows away the tiles. Looks like different artists did them.

[Decroded]

Ew, that latest mockup is so low-contrast. Darken up that bg. The door's detail level and general caliber blows away the tiles. Looks like different artists did them.

Haha yeah it was done REALLY quickly so I could jump in and learn game maker. I'm learning everything atm still struggling with the pixel art.
I'm working on replacing this tile set (amongst other things) but my skills r so bad that its taking me ages and I'm not happy do far...
Game maker coming along nicely though I don't know how many of u artists r coders too or what systems u use but would be interested to find out...

[Decroded]

Another rough attempt at replacing the horrible cave tileset.
Trying something different colour-wise.
Crits and suggestions welcome, especially any tips on how to improve the form of rocks in the background tiles for example.

[Decroded]

My standard issue RPG chest - I'm pixeling in Game Maker's sprite editor on a TV so colours probably look wierd.

Also starting some tiles to replace the awful tileset for foresty-type levels.


And this is a background tile to go with it for enclosed areas.


Just unhappy that everything is so small in comparison with my main character and finding it kind of hard to do 32x32 tiles of rocks and stuff - considering going starting a fresh low-res project at 16x16 pixels  
Any feedback is welcome as always.

[Demian]

Hi, i like your work so far but i was thinking that the colors for the castle tileset seems to be too warm for such place, why don't you play with colder colors a bit?
Also, sorry but i don't like the warrior's pose, i think that kind of pose fits better to the "big-brute" ones. Why don't you try something more agile?

[Decroded]

Hi, i like your work so far but i was thinking that the colors for the castle tileset seems to be too warm for such place, why don't you play with colder colors a bit?
Also, sorry but i don't like the warrior's pose, i think that kind of pose fits better to the "big-brute" ones. Why don't you try something more agile?

Thanks I'll take those comments on and do what I can.

Tried playing around with the character's stance (ws supposed to look agile lol) but just made it worse - any edits are welcome if someone can help out to make him look less unco.
Or even if someone can recommend a good reference site for male poses (preferably not nude lol)?

New health potion (old one up top), added a gemstone, obligitory RPG chicken (not yet animated) and an NPC (mainly just so I could build the dialog engine):

[Demian]

Hey i really like these last sprites but chicken seems to be a bit oversized...

About the warrior's standing, is he supposed to be attacking regularly or just occasionally? cause you might think of prince of persia as reference if you fight occasionally. Other references i can think now are Diablo games, always ready to attack but different perspective than yours . Shadow of the colossus, but that depends on the amount of fighting you will have.

[Decroded]

Hey i really like these last sprites but chicken seems to be a bit oversized...
About the warrior's standing, is he supposed to be attacking regularly or just occasionally? cause you might think of prince of persia as reference if you fight occasionally. Other references i can think now are Diablo games, always ready to attack but different perspective than yours . Shadow of the colossus, but that depends on the amount of fighting you will have.

Thanks for comments.
Yeah chicken is a little too chunky hey I'll shrink it down thanks.
Interesting you ask about frequency of fighting - I've been struggling with that myself and haven't been able to decide yet to be honest.
For now I've started a new walk cycle becuase  the old one was drawn with no reference so the new one just uses http://www.idleworm.com/how/anm/02w/walk1.shtml for reference.
I haven't had a chance to detail yet or start on torso which will have to at least twist as he walks.
What do you think so far?
old: - new:

Do you think the movement is too much how he strides forward on the passing and high-point frames?
I'm trying to add something besides just bob up and down but I don't know if it looks ok and its pretty late here O.o

[Jad]

His feet stay at the same place too long at the end of his steps, this would have the effect of it looking as though he's gliding forwards on that foot when you get him to move forward across the screen.

Make sure the ground travels under him at a set pace, and that his feet follow this.

Except for that it's looking mighty nice. The leg movement is tons better than before. Good progress!

[Decroded]

His feet stay at the same place too long at the end of his steps, this would have the effect of it looking as though he's gliding forwards on that foot when you get him to move forward across the screen.
Make sure the ground travels under him at a set pace, and that his feet follow this.
Except for that it's looking mighty nice. The leg movement is tons better than before. Good progress!

Thanks for feedback.
I'm so noob I wouldn't have known but I think I can see now and hopefully fixed.
Touched up each frame a little, tried to even foot movement and added some ground to move along.
What do you think now?



Maybe can do with a little more tweaking before I start on the torso...

[Greger]

I think you should be able to see more of the leg behind when it's furthest forward, around the pelvis. Other than that, looks really smooth and natural.

[Otzlowe]

I think you should be able to see more of the leg behind when it's furthest forward, around the pelvis. Other than that, looks really smooth and natural.

I don't know that I agree. While that's what'd make sense for a regular walk, assume that he's holding his shield forward, with his torso twisted. It starts to make sense in that case and looks pretty good to me. If his hips twisted too much, it would have a chance of making it look as though he weren't walking directly to the side.

In any case, this new animation is really smooth. The arm looks stiff in that 90 degree angle pose, and maybe more cartoony (because of its angle) than the rest of your stuff, but I also think it gives him character.

[adamisgr8]

Very nice, I would like to say that you should make more variations of each tile and use them all instead of just one. It will look much better with a less 'griddy' feel.

[Decroded]

Ok haven't posted anything in a while been so busy but started working on a running animation last couple of nights.
Used this Youtube video as a reference http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USTO4-FAL_E
I know there is appearing and dissapearing details but I'm not going to detail it until I'm happy with the movement.
All feedback welcome - especially any advice on how to fix the head placement as it is jittering around at the moment and I'm going blind from staring at the frames >.<

[StaticSails]

Find a second shooter reference and just fix up the jumpiness in the torso.

[KevinTrepanier]

Running Animation : he should stretch his legs further in front. He also looks like he's missing a frame just before he puts his foot back on the ground (both sides). The missing frame is also visible with the hands at the same moment.

[Ninja Crow]

His leading foot, in frame 2 and frame 6, isn't swung far enough forward, so that when (in frame 3 and frame 7) it hits the ground to take the weight, it's completely flat and the heel is behind the knee instead of under it to firmly take the weight (usually the heel touches down first, not the whole foot).  So if you shift the foot forward in all four frames, it should look more natural. (the brain will perceive the action of his foot moving further in the transition from frames 5 to 6, and frames 1 to 2, than it does in the other frames, as the foot swinging out to quickly take the weight -- just like in real running -- this variation in timing makes it look less robotic.  I notice you have already done something similar in your walk animation, which looks great!)

Also, I used to mistakenly use the head as a reference, and the body would animate underneath it, but having a non-moving point in a run animation just didn't look good, so I had to learn to 'bob' the head naturally.  But I notice that the hips of your soldier are similarly stable in space, so maybe you might want them to shift up as he kicks off the ground, and then come back down?

Otherwise, I just want to say that your project looks terrific, and there's a lot of impressive work on display! 

[Decroded]

Thanks for feedback guys i'll update when my gf leaves me alone long enough to keep working it lol.
I couldn't decide how cartoony or realistic to make it but maybe ill just go all realistic animation like flashback. Makes all the other characters harder though. Need so much more practice!!

[Decroded]

Ok didn't get to working on animation but been pushing pixels for a few hours on various stuff so thought I would post the progression I've made with the default player stance.
Happy enough with colours but if anyone has any tips or crits please share.
Having some trouble with the shield too, can't quite resolve it :-/




Just screwing around here with some other tile ideas:

[Decroded]

Sorry to post again but I have a question as I'm kind of stuck at the moment.
I can't decide on a good resolution for my game so please can I get some ideas what would be good to go with?
The resolution of the big old images at the top is still what my engine is running which is great to give heaps of play area in the game, but when it comes to drawing backgrounds at that resolution I'm just not getting anywhere and it feels like I've bitten off more than I can chew.
I'm using Game Maker and just playing on Windows at this stage but maybe one day I can redo in a real language and port to xbox live etc.

With 32px tiles @640x352, thats 20x11 tiles.
How I came to this is probably ass-about face as I wanted a wide-screen resolution (still do I think) so I divided 1920 / 3 so I can have nice chunky triple pixels.
I know this is probably a stupid question but I just can't decide what resolution to go with :-/
What would you experienced guys with a game this style?

[8bitbeard]

That really depends on what kind of game you want to make.
Example - Will there only be close combat (which would allow a much smaller resolution) or will the player (and enemies) be able to shoot projectiles (which will need some more gamespace to be seen, so a higher resolution)?

I personally really like the smaller res you have on your very first image in this thread.
 

[Decroded]

That really depends on what kind of game you want to make.
Example - Will there only be close combat (which would allow a much smaller resolution) or will the player (and enemies) be able to shoot projectiles (which will need some more gamespace to be seen, so a higher resolution)?

I personally really like the smaller res you have on your very first image in this thread.
 

Yes and yes - lol I think thats what makes it awkward for me.
Melee combat as well as ranged weapons and magic spells such as fireball.
What actually happens at the moment movement is WASD and the screen moves around to follow the mouse cursor for aiming as far as until the player gets near the edge of the screen (a bit like cannon fodder).
I'm actually disabling mouse input very shortly though in favour of keyboard/gamepad input and the mouse control features will remain hidden until I want to use them in a future game.

Maybe I'll go with something like the small one but add a little to the sides to make it a bit more widescreen format which would allow for some effective ranged weapons.
Thanks.

[yrizoud]

Filling a scenery of 640*something with interesting pixels is already quite some work.
Note that if you must make enemies appear offscreen randomly (a classic  ), having small characters relative to the resolution will put more useless scenery at the edges of the levels : at these places the gameplay is simplified because attacks will come from only one side.

[Chris2balls]

i think you could do with more contrast, less colours and a bit more saturation, because readability is an issue.
here's an exagerated solution:

the player's colours still blend in with the background, but i think you understand what i'm getting at.
the treasure chest has way too many colours and consequently gives it a very soft rendering. try shift the tones to give it a more metal-y feel to it, because for now it's saturated yellow stuff.

[Decroded]

Whoah nelly thats a bit extreme for me Chris2balls but I have taken your comments on board and made some tweaks to try to improve readability.
What do you think now? Do you think it needs to be pushed further?

I tweaked the player sprite's  dark metal and leather to red to try to bring it forward off the background and played with saturations and tones to try to decrease focus on unimportant elements like the green cloth.
I also removed a colour from the metal ramp.
Tweaked tile colours and some minor improvements.



This is looking like the resolution I will run with: 448x288px / 14x9 tiles.

Still need to remove some unnecessary colours such as on the chest and potion perhaps.
As far as chest colours go I was really going for dull tarnished brass with wood (I know the bent wood makes no sense) rather than gold and whatever that red stuff is...

[Chris2balls]

i have an issue with these colours:

they blend pretty well together, except the problem is, the red and the green are for the player's sprite and the grey for the background.

[Decroded]

i have an issue with these colours:

they blend pretty well together, except the problem is, the red and the green are for the player's sprite and the grey for the background.

Thats not the colours I'm using now though, do you think the last one has better readability?
Sorry, I hadn't updated the top of the post but now its fixed.

[Decroded]

Oops I pressed Reply instead of Edit :-/
Ah well, new scene I'm working going outdoors now just blocking it out and trying to work out the colours.

I've had no luck at all doing backgrounds so far so please all c+c are welcome.

[Joe]

Your latest background is looking good.  Although, if this is a game you're actually working on and not just a mockup, I hope you're working on that background in layers, so you can separate them later and get a really nice parallax effect going. 

If not, you'd better separate it now before you have too much detail now and you're more committed.

[Decroded]

Your latest background is looking good.  Although, if this is a game you're actually working on and not just a mockup, I hope you're working on that background in layers, so you can separate them later and get a really nice parallax effect going. 

If not, you'd better separate it now before you have too much detail now and you're more committed.

Haha yeah its all layered in photoshop, thanks for comments.

I started this desert scene too as I will probably work on a few at a time and keep working through them.
I hope it is clear what I am going for, the desert I'm trying to do is make a mix of deep sand tiles, and sand covered rocks which I hope to be able to slope up and down some rocky outcrops and ideally down through some shaded crevice in the rock areas.


Some tips on colours and composition would appreciated, especially the desert scene where I was going for sand dunes in the background but I'm a bit confused how to get good atmospheric perspective and I think it looks more like mountains?

Once I'm happy with some progress on desert I will attempt to modify it to make a base for snow and snow covered rocks - again I have never attempted this :-S

Also what do you guys think about the style of keeping the backgrounds as fairly undetailed, simple blocks of colour like this with perhaps the odd feature which would still be failry undetailed?
I was reading that this is a good way of keeping focus on what is happening in the foreground...

[PypeBros]

Your main character did a great job with the dungeon BG, but imho, it doesn't pop out as well outdoor. That would make sense to provide an alternate palette that uses more saturated colours.

[Decroded]

Your main character did a great job with the dungeon BG, but imho, it doesn't pop out as well outdoor. That would make sense to provide an alternate palette that uses more saturated colours.

Thanks I never thought of that.
I don't know how to do that in Game Maker without multiple copies of each sprite but there is probably a way.

Any comments about the backgrounds? Does it look like sand dunes to you? Do you think I should have another layer?

One thing that has been doing my head in for a while is how to make paralax backgrounds that let you go up high and down low without it breaking.
Maybe I'm overthinking it but if there is any material on that subject then I would like to read it.

[timeatscookies]

Oh my! This game is looking quite beautiful I must say! I seriously love the desert. Forest looks great too, make no mistake. Major talent going on here .

I would offer critique but I'm far too nooby to be offering advice. But yeah, this is looking lovely. I can't wait to see more!

[Decroded]

Oh my! This game is looking quite beautiful I must say! I seriously love the desert. Forest looks great too, make no mistake. Major talent going on here .

I would offer critique but I'm far too nooby to be offering advice. But yeah, this is looking lovely. I can't wait to see more!

Great thanks mate.
I'm nooby too all first time for me though I've been trying for a while and just soaking up as much knowledge as I can from all the pro's here on pixelation...

[Decroded]

Ok here I am making a proper effort at creating some dirt, grass and generic foliage.
I know it doesn't tile which doesn't seem hard to fix later, but its more of a study to work on my technique.
This is because I have been fairly unsuccesful in my (many) previous attempts.


I'll just make it clear that I am doing everything straight on without any top angle as such, but sometimes I may bend this a little in places as they do in Metal Slug.

The ground is various styles basically from left to right is the order I've been working in trying some different looks.
Please can I get some feedback if anything looks better than other bits so I know what to discard, and any tips on how to improve please?
I still find it really hard to draw good rocks and stuff and I keep finding myself with lots of small, repeated shapes >.<

I've just started on the foliage too, the berries is pretty pointless and a little distracting but I was just mucking around there.
Its supposed to be a sort of hanging vine and small trees/shrubs.
Despite the stray pixels, is this method I've used a good way to start out though?

Any advice on colours and form of dirt, rocks and foliage?
Is the grass too noisy?

Thanks!

[Decroded]

Spent some time last night trying to make a stone wall tile and this is what I came up with.
So I slapped together this mockup using bits and pieces I'd already done and the new wall.

Only part of it on the left side is textured, how do you guys think it looks?
Does it look like stone on the left side?

There are some colours that are close together but somehow it loses something when I reduce...

[spektre]

I think the desert could use some smoother dunes, the reason they look like mountains is that they are kind of jagged and thus feel hard.

Something like this:


Also, the stance looks a bit cramped, or is he just getting ready to defend or strike?  Otherwise, walking around like that would strain the arms

[Decroded]

Thanks, smoother dunes are much better. I was thinking about adding a few extra layers not just for the parallax effect but also as more places for monsters to spawn.
about the stance yeah i really should do some more relaxed versions.
I have a friend going to help me with some character concepts and sketches the next few days so hopefully Ill have some new sprites soonish...

[8bitbeard]

Not sure about the stance, I kinda like that he looks like he is really focused and ready to strike. Ever thought about something like an idle stance/animation when you do not move for X-seconds?
Dead Space does that where in between moving the pawn looks really cramped, but when no input is given for a few seconds he assumes a more relaxed state. That helps a lot when transitioning into and out of movement. Anyway, its a 3D game so maybe hard to apply.

What I definately like is that you pulled down the helmet one pixel towards the eyes, make him definately look more serious 

[Decroded]

Started roughing out this little tavern scene.


Also put the character in a more relaxed stance (-weapons for now).


EDIT:
FYI, I have stopped working in this thread.
It was time to move so I started another thread for new version of the project here:
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/index.php?topic=14658.0

[sculptedpixel]

Love the details on the table and the stones in the wall.  Great stuff.