[WiP] Sprite Base and Tiles

[StarRaven]

Work-in-progress sprite base for my game.  

http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/99023.png

Just looking at it here, all lined up like this, I can tell there's some work to be done. I'll keep working on it but hopefully I can get some crits, too!

And the very beginnings of a tileset to go with him:

[url]http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/99024.png[//url]

No transitions yet, and I've yet to make any alternate versions.

Thanks in advance for any comments!

EDIT: Changed img tags to url to make the thread less image heavy. (They're bad anyway, haha~)

[ndchristie]

the sprite's body is quite quite nice, but i have to say the shape of the head is a complete letdown by comparisson.  I think it needs a real redrawing with the same style and care of the lower parts.

Also, you know this sprite is not isometric?  Those tiles will look strange with him; far better for them to be *much* compressed vertically or his stance taken from a much higher angle.

The tiles themselves, they are a bit noisy and feel like they're missing confidence in the texture.  Id suggest working them in light and shadow like your character's body rather than form and noise.

[StarRaven]

First of all, thank you very much for taking the time to reply. I really appreciate it. 

the sprite's body is quite quite nice, but i have to say the shape of the head is a complete letdown by comparisson.  I think it needs a real redrawing with the same style and care of the lower parts.

  I'm not really sure what is wrong with it, though - the shading? The animeish style? If there is a problem, I'd like to fix it, but I'm not sure what to fix. I will admit that I didn't worry a whole lot about the shading of the head, since most of it will be covered by hair anyway. Considering that, would it be better to post a version with hair? The sprite base itself is supposed to be bald so that I can draw different hairstyles onto it, but maybe it would be better to show it off with something on it, instead?

Also, you know this sprite is not isometric?  Those tiles will look strange with him; far better for them to be *much* compressed vertically or his stance taken from a much higher angle.

Only two of the views (the second and the second-to-last) are supposed to be isometric. The game uses all eight directions for the sprites, so there are north, east/west, and south views as well. (I've only got five here, the middle three will be flipped.)  Never mind, never mind, I get what you mean!

I know they're at more of a... I'm not sure of the term for it, but a view straight from the side, rather than an angle from above? I actually did it this way on purpose, partly because I like this view better but also because I have a hard time with a higher angle. You're probably right, though. Would an angle like this really be impossible to pull off? (Outside of a platformer, I mean.)

I'd like to try to improve the sprite at this angle for now. I might have to end up redrawing from a higher angle, but if I can get this one looking nice, if it won't fit in my game the way it is, perhaps I can use it in a more appropriate game later.  ...Actually, now that I think of it, maybe I can work on two versions. I'll mess around with trying to get it into a higher-angle perspective, as well. I still want to be able to better understnad what's wrong with the head, though.

The tiles themselves, they are a bit noisy and feel like they're missing confidence in the texture.  Id suggest working them in light and shadow like your character's body rather than form and noise.

I'm not sure I understand this one.  For the grass, I drew in where I thought there should be shadows, then put in some highlights (perhaps not in the most appropriate places. I can't say I've ever been very confident in the grass texture....) I didn't use any sort of noise filter or anything? (I might be unclear on the way you're using "noisy"... if so, then I apologize if I'm not making sense, haha.) The stoney texture, too, I made by drawing the texture and then applying highlights and shadows. It isn't random. (Or, it's not supposed to be, I guess. It wasn't my intention to make it noisy.)

I'll admit, I just don't know how to make the grass look the way I want it. The only types of grass that I can seem to find much advice on are straight well-manicured-lawn-looking grass, and the strange big leafy stuff that looks like it belongs in a jungle.  I'll try again.

I kind of feel like I sound like I've taken all your critique and just said stuff like, "Well yes but that's the way it's supposed to be!  " ... I don't mean to. I'll take your advice and keep working on it. Thanks again for taking the time to critique, I really appreciate it.

[zez]

I think the style on the sprite could work, even in a semi isometric setting, but the shape of the head is really bugging me. Its far to horizontally symmetrical, and could benefit a great deal from having a chin.
As for the tiles themselves, Im fairly sure what ndchristie means (although Im not 100% on this point) is that they have to many small details, that come across as being noise, and not enough well defined structures. I can actually make out blades of grass and the structure you are going for, but I have to TRY, and that is a bad sign. Try going for simpler, larger structures and using light and shadow to really define them and make them pop. I also think the grass in particular could benefit from the shadows being slightly shifted in hue towards blue, to make them appear further back from the screen, although the yellowish highlights kind of achieve this effect, I think it would look better taken to more of an extreme.
As for the dirt, Im going to start off by saying take this with a grain of salt, as my skills at rendering dirt tiles are underdeveloped at best, but I think it would look better with simpler, flatter forms overall, and a few rocks or bits of debris thrown in to break up the monotony. Regardless of how you go about that, you have some pretty glaring banding on them. Im fairly sure its caused by the bottom left corners shadows merging into the top rights, but even JUST the bottom left corner has noticeable banding before its tiled.

[StarRaven]

...the shape of the head is really bugging me. Its far to horizontally symmetrical, and could benefit a great deal from having a chin.

A chin? I don't suppose you could show me an example of what you're thinking? My apologies, I swear, I'm not usually so thick. XD

As for the tiles themselves, Im fairly sure what ndchristie means (although Im not 100% on this point) is that they have to many small details, that come across as being noise, and not enough well defined structures. I can actually make out blades of grass and the structure you are going for, but I have to TRY, and that is a bad sign. Try going for simpler, larger structures and using light and shadow to really define them and make them pop. I also think the grass in particular could benefit from the shadows being slightly shifted in hue towards blue, to make them appear further back from the screen, although the yellowish highlights kind of achieve this effect, I think it would look better taken to more of an extreme.
As for the dirt, Im going to start off by saying take this with a grain of salt, as my skills at rendering dirt tiles are underdeveloped at best, but I think it would look better with simpler, flatter forms overall, and a few rocks or bits of debris thrown in to break up the monotony. Regardless of how you go about that, you have some pretty glaring banding on them. Im fairly sure its caused by the bottom left corners shadows merging into the top rights, but even JUST the bottom left corner has noticeable banding before its tiled.

Ahh, that makes sense. I don't really know what to do about the grass. I guess I'll experiment a bit. I think as far as the dirt goes, I want to just redo it entirely. I don't like that rocky-looking dirt, I want to do something more dusty. (How? Well, I don' know. I guess hope I'll think of something ahahaha....)

I've made some minor edits to the sprite (just the shading on the arms in the first view, which I thought were too dark.) I also tried another type of grass, which I've never liked and looks awful here, I think. At least I tried it, though. Went out to my back yard and stared at grass for a while, but it held no answers for me. The problem with grass is that it basically is nothing but noise, when viewed from a certain distance. Too close, and it becomes that weird jungle-plant grass. Too far and it's just noise. My problem is that I can not, for the life of me, think of a way to render it so that it looks like grass, but isn't either of those two things.
http://www.omgimages.net/img/617/99093.png

I might change to orthogonal tiles, just because they're easier to work with.

EDIT: Changed img tags to url to make the thread less image heavy. (They're bad anyway, haha~)

[Kidfrommars]

I like the old grass better. It had less of a visible grid, but it still had a grid.

[StarRaven]

After a ton of working on it... how does this look? I'm doing square tiles for now, though I might change them into isometric later. I think I'm pretty happy with these.

I looked around here for some ideas or techniques, and found this tileset, and used it as inspiration. (The two-colored grass in the first post.) I put down some highlights on them afterward. I made the left ones first, but they were way too dark.

I haven't worked on the sprite much...

[Cdaddr]

Looks like a nice improvement to me.  It looks like grass blades now instead of green static. 

If you tile it and squint a bit, you can still see the grid though.  In the lighter version on the right, the dark areas form a clear grid.

[StarRaven]

Ahh, yeah, I see it. Hopefully there won't be enough of them in a row in the actual game to make it noticeable, but I'll work on it nonetheless.

Some dirt tiles:


While looking at them, I realized that they're not in perspective. I'll probably have to fix that up. They're inspired by a tutorial I found somewhere around here, but I can't seem to find it.

I reduced the contrast for the brown dirt colors I'm using, so it wouldn't seem so busy or overpower the sprites, but I think they're too light now.

Edit: Forgot to mention... although it's obvious, I haven't made an alternate tiles for any of these yet, so these are just the same tiles repeated. I hope to have several different tiles for each of these. 

[buddy90]

The dirt should use some contrast. Also, it did remind of a tutorial I saw too, but I can't seem to find it either...

In any case, the best way to break up a grid to use different tiles. Don't just tile 1 tile, tile several with little changes. Don't forget to use some tiles that are just 1 color either.