AuthorTopic: [WIP]Sprites for a game  (Read 20938 times)

Offline jbeave

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[WIP]Sprites for a game

on: March 12, 2010, 02:21:37 pm
Hey there, just wanted to get some C+C on this. I'm having trouble getting some REAL feedback on it. Everywhere else I've tried were just "that's cool, bro" and the like. I want some brutal honesty, since I plan to maybe sell this game when it's done.

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/8720/progresssheet3.png
Kinda big sheet, so I'll link it.


Animations of the few poses I've got right now.

I would appreciate any replies, but just wanted feedback from some experienced people more than anything. Thanks. =)

Update: 3/30/2010 -


Wanted some advice for this running animation. I can't get it to look right.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 02:48:58 am by jbeave »

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Offline Bkeegan

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #1 on: March 12, 2010, 02:47:32 pm
Hey Jbeave! Welcome to the forums =)

First of all, good work on what you have done.
I'm a noobie pixe artist around here, but I'll try to provide some constructive feedback

-Your piece would really benefit from some anti-aliasing. The edges are really rough.

-The larger portrait in that sheet, you've got some color banding on the shoulder. If it were for me I'd try to smooth that out.

Cheers,

BK
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Offline turfsurfer

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #2 on: March 12, 2010, 02:53:27 pm
Its looking good, definitely a good solid foundation to work from. For starters: The character's left arm seems to change thickness during the idle animation, it doesn't seem like he's extending his arm all the way during the punch (and you can exaggerate this a bit to make it look more powerful,) the big red sword in the progress sheet looks kind of nondescript and he's holding it near his crotch (which isn't necessarily wrong it just looks a bit strange,) and the larger versions of the face would probably benefit from some dithering to make the curves look more smooth. I'm sure others here will be able to give you much more advice, but this should give you something to start with.

Offline CrazyMLC

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #3 on: March 12, 2010, 03:18:11 pm
I like what’s there, but it uses a lot of useless shades of grey. In fact, some of them are useful, you just aren't using all of them. A good example is the hair. There are so many colors in there, and it doesn't really accomplish anything.

A pretty big problem I'm noticing is low contrast. Low contrast means that the image looks really flat. Contrast is important in all art, but especially so in pixel art.
A good solution is to make a 'ramp' of your colors. Make rows from the darkest to the brightest shades, sorting by color. Usually when you look at these ramps they should be gradients from a dark shade to a bright one, with about 9 shades max for every color.
When doing this you should count the pants and the shirt as separate, so you can see how your contrast is with each.

You really need to use some more AA, I bet you can find tutorials on here for it. Basically, you have a lot of jaggies.
Also, if you're going to use outlines, it looks really weird to randomly stop using them in certain areas. :/

I'll work on an edit to show what I'm talking about, because I know I just really ramble on about this stuff, and in the end it makes zero sense. X_X
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 03:21:09 pm by CrazyMLC »

Offline jbeave

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #4 on: March 12, 2010, 03:24:20 pm
Bkeegan - I don't know how to add anti-aliasing, any advice? I'll work on that shading though. =)

turfsurfer - Yeah, the punch was bugging me too. Do you think if I made the fist bigger when it's extended it would look right? Sorta like how it's done in Super Smash Bros...but then again that's a 3D game..But thank you for the feedback! I'll try to work on what you mentioned.

CrazyMLC - hmm, that's a lot of food for thought. That's the kind of replies I want. =D I will take a look at everything you posted.

Hopefully I can post some updates later.

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Offline CrazyMLC

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #5 on: March 12, 2010, 04:28:13 pm
Heres an example of what I was talking about for you.


Like I was saying, contrast, contrast, contrast!
And, like I forgot to say, trial and error, trial and error, trial and error!

Also, it might help to use the color picker tool so you can use the same colors consistently throught the picture.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 05:36:47 pm by CrazyMLC »

Offline blumunkee

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #6 on: March 12, 2010, 05:49:37 pm
Hey there, just wanted to get some C+C on this. I'm having trouble getting some REAL feedback on it. Everywhere else I've tried were just "that's cool, bro" and the like. I want some brutal honesty, since I plan to maybe sell this game when it's done.

Yay! That's just the kind of attitude I like to hear. ;)

I like what I'm seeing so far. You have a good feel for human construction and you effectively utilize light and shadow to render form. I think the animation could use polishing but right now I want to address the anti-aliasing.

People are telling you to anti-alias, but you already are! Those dark pixels you've placed on the legs are a form of anti-aliasing. The problem is that the intensity of the effect is determined by the background. On white it's garish, but on a darker background it looks much better. Let's take a look at your guy at different extremes:



Take a look at the different visual effect the dark pixels on the legs give for light, medium, and dark backgrounds. When people are telling you to AA it's probably because the AA you do have doesn't work so well on pure white. Those dark pixels soften the form of the leg on dark, but they turn into jagged little eye-stabbing daggers on white. I've heard people refer to it as the cardboard cutout look.

But there's one very important thing to keep in mind. Since this is for a game, the character probably wont spend too much time on fullbright colors—there will be trees and buildings and trashcans and other things behind him—so the dark pixels will blend into the background better. There is a world of difference between posting a sprite on a white background on a message board and sticking that sprite into a videogame. One helpful tip, at least here at Pixelation, is to use a transparent background when posting your work. This theme happens to have a nice neutral background which works well when posting things like character sprites.

I'd say you can probably keep the AA as is and it will look fine ingame. But while we are on the subject, let me offer an alternative direction. I was writing this while Crazy posted his version, and I think it'll be useful to see a couple of possible directions to take.



I have for the most part dispensed with the AA and instead relied on colored outlining. One useful thing to keep in mind is that lines can be rendered with different weights using color and value, so lines around the bottom of a form can be darker (heavier) while lines towards the top can be lighter (thinner). The sprite still gets some anti-alias effects on the dark background for free, but it stands up better on the light background.

The messy palette seems to be from the processing of turning the sprite sheet into an animated GIF. Weird things happen in certain frames like shadows becoming lighter and darker. It looks like the sprite sheet is using a more consistant palette, but there are a few wonky areas like the hair seeming to have it's own palette and the outlines of a foot turing blue mid-kick. Watch out for stuff like that, too many odd colors can make your art look sloppy.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 06:51:05 pm by blumunkee »

Offline NaCl

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #7 on: March 12, 2010, 11:15:28 pm
The kick lacks power and smoothness. One problem is that during the extension of his lower leg, his entire body moves a great deal. Aside from the lower leg of the kick leg, everything should move fairly smoothly. Then, during the arc of the upper leg, the lower leg should probably go from fully bent to fully extended in one frame. That will give it some good snap and power, as long as you have another frame or two showing the aftermath of the kick (the leg still moves a little from all the power, clothes move from the force, etc...).

Also, put in a frame or two to show his leg going back to a standing position right now. It's a little jarring seeing him instantaneously revert to standing.

Offline Jad

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #8 on: March 12, 2010, 11:53:07 pm
HALLO

you are awesome, you are obviously good enough to enjoy the juicy meat of an EDIT

here you go, I created DYNAMICS!



http://www.fightersgeneration.com/

go there, go to games street fighter 3rd strike, and garou: mark of the wolves, download some of the sprites, marvel, learn.

Actually I haven't done that a lot * D * I did it like 'go to the site, marvel' and then later learning by wise pixelationers talking about stuff. And reading the animator's survival guide.

But nevermind! Have at you!
' _ '

Offline jbeave

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Re: [WIP]Sprites for a game

Reply #9 on: March 13, 2010, 12:26:10 am
CrazyMLC - wow, I like all the shading. I think it's a tad over my skill level to make asheet out of something like that though. =/

blumunkee - Thank you for the huge reply! You really gave me a lot of good advice, I appreciate it. Do you mind if I work up from that? I just made a new stance animation from it:



It probably needs a little work, what do you think?

NaCl - thanks for that feedback. =)

Jad - woah, that is gonna help a lot. Thank you for showing me that!

Sorry it took a while to respond back though, someone on another forum had the nerve to call this a recolor/edit (with no basis whatsoever) and I've been pissed ever since. I'm cooled down now but it was more or less a slap in the face. >_>
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 12:30:55 am by jbeave »

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