AuthorTopic: Palette  (Read 17326 times)

Offline ptoing

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Re: Palette

Reply #20 on: March 31, 2010, 07:41:00 pm
I would also really like to see a post where something like that happened. I for one can not recall any.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Ai

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Re: Palette

Reply #21 on: March 31, 2010, 10:27:40 pm
FINAL POINT: Historically, scientists down through time have picked up the research of previous scientists in order to further their own work, effectively taking the scientific findings of the previous era and running with it, like runners in a relay race handing off the baton to each other.
Should contemporary scientists ignore or cover up the fact that they're using the proverbial research baton of a bygone era? No, that would be very dishonest and misleading. There's nothing wrong with the fact they're doing it. That's how technology advances. It's a beautiful thing. They should cite their sources, though. Don't be a selfish pig, practice courtesy and honesty in what you do - respect the work of others when you benefit from it.

You said it :) IMO the comparison to science is almost exactly right. A palette is a significant component of a finished image, though by itself it's nothing terribly remarkable. Just as there are plenty of unremarkable scientific studies, the results of which have been built on to create remarkable new advances. eg shape preserving 2d/3d mesh warping (The results are nothing short of awesome. Implementing this in GIMP is currently being considered as a possible Google Summer of Code project)

This is not a matter of intellectual property (the entire concept is deceptive wankery, and creates the problems it is supposed to solve (eg. as in independent simultaneous creation of a near-identical work)), just a matter of common courtesy

(that said, I'd rather see a palette I made used, even without credit, rather than simply bit-rotting, never being used again)

Quote from: Indigo
just FYI - the likelihood of someone picking the exact same palette with N indexes is 1 in N*(256^3) i believe. (for rgb256)

so for a 16 color palette like arne's:
1 / 268,435,456

Your figures are WAAY off.
you would only distinguish that fine color differences if the palette was very large (256 entries is about the minimum palette size you could specify 256 levels of intensity as meaningful for); colour perception is relative. Except in such circumstances, 64 levels of intensity is closer the mark for colors we can distinguish somewhat readily. As the overall size of the palette drops, so does the amount of precision required to describe it.
So a 16-color palette, like Arne's, could have anything between 16*(16^3) [65536] to 16*(32^3)[524288] to 16*(64^3) [4194304, which is still 64 times smaller than the value you gave] . The exact precision would depend on the particular context the palette was being applied in. For Arne's palette, I would bet on 32 being about the right number of intensity levels.
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline Indigo

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Re: Palette

Reply #22 on: March 31, 2010, 10:38:32 pm
Quote
the likelihood of someone picking the exact same palette with N indexes

I was speaking of actual RGB value numbers.  If you're saying the human perception of said colors is much less than 256 for each color component - well that's a whole other story and you may be right, but the figures are still spot-on.  I will say though that your notion that the human eye can only distinguish between 64 levels of intensities per color component (thus only 262,144 different colors total)  is absurdly low.  Studies have shown the eye to be able to distinguish between millions of colors - making that closer to 8bit (256 levels) intensity per color component
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 10:51:59 pm by Indigo »

Offline Ai

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Re: Palette

Reply #23 on: March 31, 2010, 11:08:10 pm
Quote
the likelihood of someone picking the exact same palette with N indexes

I was speaking of actual RGB value numbers.  If you're saying the human perception of said colors is much less than 256 for each color component - well that's a whole other story and you may be right, but the figures are still spot-on.  I will say though that your notion that the human eye can only distinguish between 64 levels of intensities per color component (thus only 262,144 different colors total)  is absurdly low.  
I don't hold such a notion.
The human eye doesn't have a exact fixed number of colors it can perceive,
it works comparitively and adaptively. What precision meaningfully describes the colors in a palette (for purposes of comparing palettes) depends on the exact colors it contains and their relation to each other.

Quote
Studies have shown the eye to be able to distinguish between millions of colors - making that closer to 8bit (256 levels) intensity per color component

That's (sort of) right, but they are only perceivable comparitively.
That is.. if you put a patch of 224,255,245 on one side of the screen,
and a patch of 225,255,246 on the other side of the screen, with a large gap in between, you are not going to manage to distinguish between them (or you may judge the difference between them in a wrong way), whereas if they are placed next to each other you might well manage to distinguish between them.

David Briggs' http://www.huevaluechroma.com/ shows some examples.
http://www.huevaluechroma.com/034.php
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline xhunterko

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Re: Palette

Reply #24 on: April 01, 2010, 01:16:41 am
Furthermore, I have  a simple question to pose.

Did arne put a copyright on his palette when he created it?

Offline bengo

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Re: Palette

Reply #25 on: April 01, 2010, 01:57:55 am
Furthermore, I have  a simple question to pose.

Did arne put a copyright on his palette when he created it?


Dude its just nice to you know, give credit where its due, I don't think Arne is going to sue over colors or anything but technically he did create the specific palette you see before you, why do you keep arguing anyway? Its just a palette, come on. Also as for Helm's observation, yeah I used to be a bit of a punk, glad to know I'm not the ONLY one, but I'm guessing one of the reasons is because of how the forum rules are, pretty set in stone stuff, barely any looseness around them, but I guess you gotta be strict with rules (like angry reactions to someone being a gigantic prick can still be counted as a strike, how nice of you) or else you start losing power.

Offline Helm

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Re: Palette

Reply #26 on: April 01, 2010, 02:12:07 am
Furthermore, I have  a simple question to pose. Did arne put a copyright on his palette when he created it?

I haven't put a copyright in anything I've drawn either. Yet ripping me off is considered tasteless, even if it's not technically illegal (some copyright is implicit but that depends anyway I don't want to argue legalese)

Offline xhunterko

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Re: Palette

Reply #27 on: April 01, 2010, 02:20:50 am
"like angry reactions to someone being a gigantic prick can still be counted as a strike, how nice of you)"

Since when has been arguing for the freedom for people to use whichever set of colors without fear been considered being a gigantic prick?

That's all I'm saying. If somebody wants to make something, then they should be able to. Without fear of question.

Offline bengo

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Re: Palette

Reply #28 on: April 01, 2010, 02:28:21 am
"like angry reactions to someone being a gigantic prick can still be counted as a strike, how nice of you)"

Since when has been arguing for the freedom for people to use whichever set of colors without fear been considered being a gigantic prick?

That's all I'm saying. If somebody wants to make something, then they should be able to. Without fear of question.
Wait what that was a completely different sentence with a completely different topic you mis-interpreted my post.

Also the question isn't if someone wants to make anything they should, its when someone makes something, is it (legally and/or morally) right for someone to just take without due credit?
« Last Edit: April 01, 2010, 02:32:11 am by bengoshia »

Offline Helm

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Re: Palette

Reply #29 on: April 01, 2010, 03:25:54 am
Since when has been arguing for the freedom for people to use whichever set of colors without fear been considered being a gigantic prick?

Is this really how you see what you're doing?