Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - 0xDB
Pages: 1 ... 70 71 [72] 73 74 ... 87

711
2D & 3D / Re: Official Anatomy Thread
« on: December 11, 2012, 08:48:54 am »
Yes, the mouth is the one part which is more off than everything else. I wonder if that's due to the paper being slightly rotated without me noticing while I was working on it. Hm, but even with rotated paper it should have been possible to get the angle right by comparing against other angles and lines which were already drawn at that point.

Haven't drawn much the past two days (not feeling too well, headaches, arm and shoulder pain... blah excuses!).

712
2D & 3D / Re: Official Anatomy Thread
« on: December 08, 2012, 07:31:44 pm »
@Joe: I just need more practice, that's all. Drawing only from life after the methods presented in Betty Edwards' book however is not sufficient practice because that only trains, as you know, ones' own perception and ability to see whatever is there but only as flat 2D shapes, as the contours which are formed as a projection of the real world volumes onto a flat surface. The result appears 3D if the perception and translation to pencil strokes was accurate but it does not mean the artist understands the volumes or that he/she could render them accurately from a different perspective without the help of a different reference photo.

I am aware of the fact that it isn't necessary to have any constructional knowledge to arrive at good life drawing skills (given many hours of practice of course) if you just draw what you see and keep making sure you really see it right. But that is not the main focus here.

The main focus/goal is on arriving at an understanding of that which is there as 3D volumes of width, height and depth and to be able to quickly render those from any angle from imagination, even angles which are completely different from the referenced real world object and angles from which an object hasn't even been seen before by extrapolating from what is already known and by imagining how it might appear from that unknown angle.

Now, if, and I stress IF I already were an expert at that, at spotting and correctly placing/feeling the volumes as they extend into the space in all directions, there would not be much difference in either drawing what is seen as a flat 2D image or drawing what is seen as 3D volumes first and then rendering the contours, lights, shadows and halftones based on those volumes.

The latter would have the advantage (over a mere 2D copy) of enabling the artist to render the referenced real life object(e.g. a photo) with a different light source or from an entirely different angle.

@wishie: Posemaniacs is great (worked from that in 2009 a bit (as seen on some older page of this thread)) and I should also get back to working from that again. I'll also check out the other site you linked to which seems interesting as well (and it features real naked people too!).

Working at bigger size is also a good idea (although in theory it doesn't make a difference since an accurately constructed or copied image should feel right at any size).


Now here are the results of todays practice.

First is a drawn comment on "your images are rife with symbolism":


Second, some 30sec posemaniacs studies:


Third some quick doodles trying to imagine how that same old pose would look from different angles (see... if I already had the skill I'm training for, these would look right instead of awkward :P ):


And fourth, oldschool flat drawing practice from reference photo without any construction practice involved (failed to capture her likeness again, I blame a lack of practice ^^):

process video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u0U2hq13tw

result:


And finally another deskshot (with a new solution for fixing the camera in a place where it doesn't get in the way):

713
2D & 3D / Re: Official Anatomy Thread
« on: December 06, 2012, 11:00:55 pm »
@NaCl: I apologize. I brushed off your comment recommending gesture drawing too quickly and it's actually a very helpful thing to do as I've seen today.

@jengy: 10000 hours... will do, unless I run out of steam of course.  :P

@Ryumaru: Yes, thanks! That's very helpful and it's always interesting to see others drawing. May I comment though that your drawing isn't recognizable as Kirsten Dunst? Maybe it wasn't your intention to capture the likeness though, seeing your process is still very helpful.

So, in todays doodle, I tried a combination of gesture drawing, finding certain rhythms which flow through the whole reference (most obvious one I saw was that first invisible curve which connects the two hands) and construction (even bogus'd in sternum and collar bones from what little I remember about them and tried to place the invisible ear and parts of the invisible hand). That helped a lot getting a much more balanced result (individual proportions are still way off, the likeness is completely absent but my excuse for that is that it's just a 20 min doodle and I was not focusing on drawing a polished finished piece here).

Well, it's certainly an improvement over yesterdays attempt which is very off balance due to the evil meticulous construction which NaCl advised against doing (should have listened to that sooner).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2tqJ6KNNt4

result (embedded in a picture of the workspace setup, including ghetto camera stand):



714
2D & 3D / Re: Official Anatomy Thread
« on: December 06, 2012, 12:49:08 am »
Hrrmmmmpffff.


715
2D & 3D / Re: Official Anatomy Thread
« on: December 05, 2012, 09:38:40 am »
No, the problem here and the reason for why the relationship of the things to each other are distorted, is a severe lack of proper/meticulous construction.

It is not my intention to separate construction from reference and I made a construction in the 2h version first. The problem was though, that I didn't stick to it and that the head I constructed had a slightly different perspective than the head in the photo. Then when I came to render the features, I rendered some features in the places and at the angles they had to be according to the construction and others (without paying much attention and due to a lack of discipline and patience) according to their orientation and placement in the photo.

A proper construction (executed with patience and discipline) which was true to the angle in the photo would have lead to features being placed correctly and then I could still have copied them accurately from the photo and in their correct places and orientation using the angles and curves found in the photo and they would have been in-sync with the angles of the things as they should have been if drawn from memory guided by the construction.

So that's what I meant by "need to practice construction more". I should rephrase, I need to build the patience and discipline to make sure the constructed version has the correct dimensions and angles before moving over to the rendering.

Further edits can be made but they won't fix the issues of the underlying "anatomy" being skewed:

716
2D & 3D / Re: Official Anatomy Thread
« on: December 04, 2012, 06:29:27 pm »
I tried to make a construction based on the photo but then quickly caught myself alternating between constructing and copying. My construction however wasn't perfectly true to the angles of the head in the photo, so the result ended up falling apart with random features placed based on my construction and others being placed and drawn as referenced from the photo.

Also, the end result does not look like her at all and while drawing I often found that even very minor differences of less than an estimated two degrees in an angle already made a huge difference in the overall appearance. Same seems to be true for line thickness: e.g. That one thick line almost seems to make the lower lip appear 1.5 times as high as it really is.

I could probably digitally keep adjusting it until perfection (or directly draw on top of the photo) but that seems pointless, so yay, another abandoned study which once again proves that a flawed construction is the root of all evil. So I think I should really practice construction more than drawing from life. Or perhaps the simplified head (ball and plane) construction is flawed in itself because it's not an accurate simplification of the skull?






717
2D & 3D / Re: Official Anatomy Thread
« on: December 03, 2012, 12:40:37 am »
Good observation on the lashes, I'll try making them more irregular in the future.

I tried making a few corrections, first to the original which soon became impossible to further fix further because of the limitation of non-digital erasers, graphite pigments and paper and then some additional digital ones. I'll abandon it now.


718
2D & 3D / Re: Official Anatomy Thread
« on: December 02, 2012, 11:14:52 pm »


I intended to draw a full portrait of her but I felt intimidated by her beauty and thought there was no way I could be able to capture that with my rusty and crude pencil-fu, so I just drew an eye. Even in that little portion I made a few mistakes and got some angles and stroke lengths wrong. The most obvious error is the fold which covers the upper eyelid, it seems a little swollen in my drawing thus already destroying the perfection found in the original. Also, it does not seem to wrap as softly around the bone as it does in reality and just ends abruptly on the left with a sharp edge.

Furthermore, I misinterpreted the dark stuff on the lower left as lashes from the lower lid where now after comparing my drawing side by side with the reference I think those dark lines are actually shadows cast by the lashes from her upper eyelid. Also, the dark lines inside the colored part of the eye are probably reflections of the lashes (got that wrong too while drawing and assumed seemingly random pigmentation).

719
2D & 3D / Re: Official Anatomy Thread
« on: December 02, 2012, 12:25:55 pm »
That's some good progress in those portraits jengy. I think your portraits might benefit from some real life pencils or charcoal next to add more character to them.


Thanks for all the positive, constructive and kind words everyone.

Even though I don't currently have any new studies to show, I feel like I should respond to what has been written so far before the backlog of text becomes too long and before there'll be too much stuff to respond to.

Thank you jengy for putting in the time to prepare that summary of some of the techniques presented in Betty Edwards' book (I hope you didn't specifically prepare those only for me though, because I already worked with that book back in 2001/2002, so that would have been a waste of your time. Still a useful picture for everyone trying to improve their life studies). It's really a good book and I think I've recommended it to others myself a few times over the years. I even keep meaning to read it again. :)

Personally I'm not a friend of the grid and never used it because I want to train my eyes/mind to be able to do stuff mostly without additional tools. Also, I'm too lazy to build a good physical grid, heh.

Cyangmou is right that simply "copying from life", trying to be a human camera, isn't enough and he's also right in that this is not where my main focus is on right now.

My current goal is to be able to construct any pose/angle from scratch with believable anatomy and volumes in a somewhat realistic appearance and without relying on any references (imagine being stuck on a lonely island where you have to invent & draw your own new friends from imagination to stay sane).
I see how I'm hitting a road block here again though, because I don't know enough about how the human features look from all angles yet and which basic volumes they're best constructed from, so life studies as recommended by Ryumaru and jengy are very important indeed and I should really do them more often.

That mental library of things which Ryumaru mentioned, combined with the constructive approach by Loomis, an understanding of volume and maybe even using photo references and being an observant creeper in real life (without copying 1:1) for getting features right should eventually end up giving the best results.

To make this post worthwile, I'll post some real life studies I made in the past over the years (in fact, I do these so rarely (because I find inventing more interesting than copying), those are all I could find) (anything pre 2002 I never got around to scanning it and I don't even know which box or drawer it's currently hidden in)).

2002 seems to have been a productive period. Then there's a long stretch of nothing until a single drawing from 2007, following by more nothing until two drawings from 2009, followed by nothing again until now 2012.

Another goal of mine is to first get back to and then surpass my skill level as it was 10 years ago. :)

2002:


















2007:


2009:










720
2D & 3D / Re: Official Anatomy Thread
« on: December 01, 2012, 03:17:47 pm »
Ashbad, the hard way would be to be a creeper and draw people from life outside (Public transportation works well for that but be prepared to get some angry looks when you stare at people analyzing their features. If you wear headphones and listen to loud music you can at least prevent them from actually starting to talk to you. After some time you can move on to sketching them in your head, still being a creeper staring at them but without the additional awkwardness which arises from them seeing you scribbling down lines into your sketchbook while you keep looking up and down.)

Other than that, others have suggested studying Loomis which is what I'm currently doing, reading "Drawing The Head And Hands". I'm still at the beginning of the book but already learned a couple of things which helped improve my head drawings. Of course, posting your drawing on the web and receiving critique is also a good way to learn. Avoid family and friends for critique for they tend to be mild on you and dishonest in that they won't point out your flaws because they're too afraid to hurt your feelings.

----
Today I tried to make an arbitrary construction without looking at the 3D model. This time I started with the ellipses which form from the sliced off sides of the main ball of the head and then constructed the head around them. Afterwards I looked at the 3D model and picked the orientation which seemed to match it most accurately (which turned out to be D3). Based on that I found too many flaws and after a bit of trying gave up on correcting all of them which leaves me with the abandoned version on the far right:


(this proves once more that if the construction is flawed, no amount of tweaking and screwing around on the individual parts afterwards will be sufficient to make it look right as a whole)

My mind seems to be controlled by some strong force of habit which always wants to go back to rendering the face from a straight symbolic front view and it also refuses to accept that some things are hidden underneath others and thus should not appear in the drawing at all, it's like the mind does not like leaving out anything and wants to spread out and draw even the things that lie covered around and behind an edge. This becomes most obvious whenever I get towards drawing the mouth and chin region.





Pages: 1 ... 70 71 [72] 73 74 ... 87