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Messages - The B.O.B.
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51
General Discussion / Re: Pixel purism and the PixelJoint
« on: March 02, 2009, 03:15:41 pm »
To keep it on topic...

The sheer volume of problematic calls I've witnessed in PJ in terms of what is accepted (and to lesser degree what is not) in the gallery makes this a logistical problem more than anything. It's not that you guys are more unfair, it's that you make a huge amount of calls per week and the unfairness stands out more.

   This is the reason why people complain more about Pixeljoint, than Pixelation: The volume of users that are active at Pixeljoint, are much larger than Pixelation. Of course, there are several reasons why, but it's easier to understand that with tons of users in a gallery site,   especially most being new to the site, or new artists entirely, we get several "middle child" users, who want nothing more than attention, or to be the popular one. So it's far easier to be critical of Pixeljoint, as we don't have time to isolate and deal with most user issues, or to evaluate their being there. If we spot a problem with a user, we try to come up with a group decision, and decide whether this person will grow as a user, out of their "troll" status, and start being a better person for the community as a whole, or will they continue their current ways.
   We try our best to calm some down and solve the problem in a nice manner, via direct pm's with the users in question. Some times it works, and some times it doesn't. I've seen public rants about this same conversation in the past, on pixeljoint in the chatterbox. Sane ones, actually. But when a moderator politely pm's this same user as to how we can help, I've seen these same sane users go across the line to insane, cursing us, using derogatory names, and whatnot in pm form, where only we can see what he/she says, not the general public. So it's easy to chastise the moderator team, when you can't see what lies behind the scenes.
   Where as here, at Pixelation, the user base is much smaller, with more active users who are a very tight knit, group. Helm, Panda, and Ptoing being one of the mods, are also fairly close with most of the active user base, here(though not all, and I've seen a recent bunch of new users, so I'm sure things may change in the future). Therefore, issues with new users, are easier to deal with, as the general user base understands the mindset of the website with what is and isn't allowed, allowing the mods less time to deal with the general user base, and more time to isolate the problematic ones much easier. And this hard-assery' is also what keeps most newer pixel artists away from this site, fearing how bad their art will be criticized(I've actually seen proof of this, when some users Pm me to help them with their art at PJ, and when I couldn't offer any more help, I'd ask them to go to our pj forums for assistance, or Pixelation, being a great site for critique. Majority of the time, they would say something along the lines of " No, I've lurked at pixelation before, I'm afraid those guys are a little too advanced for me, or may be too harsh on my work."). Now I hate to use the "numbers" game as an excuse, but you have to admit, it does come into play, sometimes.
   That being said, yes, PJ has some kinks to work out, but to be honest, most of the suggestions thrown out on this thread, have actually been thrown out secretly in our mod chats in the past. It was just a matter of indecision as to what may happen if we do so, as, I hate to admit, some of us mods there haven't been there that long(though we are coming into our own, and now starting to function like a great unit...a mechanical BEAST if you will), so enforcing such rash changes on the site, seemed a bit uncomfortable, as it's a phase of change most humans have a hard time adjusting to(again, I know pixelation can relate, as I remember some of the issues you guys had back then over the shift of powa'). We were used to the set rules we already had in place, which is why some of us were elected into the mod-squad to keep the site in track. So coming in there, and than hearing suggestion that we need to change some things severely was a bit over our head. We've however, decided, it's for the best now.

   Again, I'm sure this has all been said in this thread somewhere. I'm sure Pixelation and PJ mods differ on some aspects of the Pixel art, and where it's standards lie, but I'm hopeful that soon in the near future our definitions will get to the point where it matches, and a global understanding between all pixel artists, new and old, is met.

*ps, so after all this fighting, when do we get to the sweaty man-orgy? : P

52
General Discussion / Re: Pixel purism and the PixelJoint
« on: February 28, 2009, 07:55:44 pm »
Guess I'll say my part.

   Being a mod at Pixel Joint, I must admit, I've actually sent more pieces back for not being of "good quality" more than I've sent back supposed accused "NPA" pieces. I've always held it firm, that the usage of a tool shouldn't matter, in terms of pixel art, as long as the user attains full control over his piece. I know of some users who actually draw their pieces on paper, scan it, reduce, than pixel over it. THIS IS FINE. Why some users feel we don't allow this, is beyond me. What I DO have a problem with, is stealing and copying. Just blatantly copy and pasting ANOTHER PERSON'S creation, editing it, and calling it their own. That's just down right wrong, in my book. This is also the reason why I'm weary of some Demoscene artists that join PixelJoint.
   They are great artists, no doubt, but their methods aren't clean to begin with, in my oh so humble opinion. Several create pieces in the method mentioned above, and others use an un-godly amount of colors in their pieces that makes one wonder "Why? Why not just ease your pain and do it in hi-res digital? What is the point in doing a piece like this?"...So in that respect, I do have a prejudice against high color count, and will definitely be prone to sending something back. Does high color count mean NOT pixel art? NO. In my personal believe, it's a quality issue.
   I'm always under the belief that if something is submitted under a pixel art category, it should respect it's history. It wasn't even called pixel art back then, but more so just drawing in a digital format, using software applications. And these applications were hindered to technical limitations, and restrictions. Later on, technology grew, and less limitations became apparent, giving digital artists more freedom. However, that's where our fine lines began to have been drawn, over what belongs where. No one likes to be labeled, but it's hard to deny the visual traits certain things have. More to the point, a user who pixels something with a color count in the triple digits and beyond, that isn't a game, or multi-layered mock-up is merely missing the point of pixel art: Learning how to work with a palette wisely enough and work within set restrictions to make a said piece. That being said, pixel art can be fun without restrictions, and sometimes it's ok to work outside the box. However, to keep with tradition, it's always good practice to work within set limitations, for creative growth.
   Yes, the previous paragraph does have some gray areas, with things that are, and aren't accepted. But that comes with the territory, any time you try and label something, or try to define the undefinable. It's really a matter of personal taste, over what is what. Good and evil have different meanings upon different cultures and beings. After all, I don't walk into a grocery store and ask them to fix my car, and question why. That's just down right silly. Cause I know that's the way they run business there. It's there way of life.(blegh, I'm blabbering)

   At any rate, it's always been difficult for me to see why some users complain over the site's issues. Maybe I'm just blind to the problems, or have been there too long to even notice. The only thing I can say, is that the other mods on our team have been fairly wonderful in terms of solving some of our user base's main issues, and have done well behind the scenes, where ABSOLUTELY NO PRAISE is given' for what we do to help keep the site tidy, or going. But again that comes with the job, I suppose. All in all, I can say(with the exception of a previous mod) that everyone of them have performed fairly well with PJ. But I'm glad that our team is finally approaching these issues with an open mind, as there are some things mentioned that I've asked in the past, that I think are finally going to be put into fruition, and it seems we're all on the same page now.

Toodles!

53
General Discussion / Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
« on: February 17, 2009, 06:16:12 pm »
It(SF4) completely sold out in Japan on it's opening day, so that's gotta' tell you something about the love still given for this franchise, despite some of the previous critical concerns of it's graphic direction, on this website. I'll be sure to pick up this game when I get the chance, and partake in some online beatings.

54
General Discussion / Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
« on: January 28, 2009, 05:38:29 am »
You say that the Science and Religion Battle is pointless and will go on forever without conclusion, if I'm understanding you right (Tell me if I'm not).

I agree with you, Bob, but I don't think it's pointless.  Whenever I'm able to have a civilized discussion with someone over it, both of us know it will be to know end and neither of us is trying to convince the other.  That makes for a deeply satisfying discussion, and since I've made my own beliefs about life it helps me to really critically think about what I believe, and sooth out the kinks in logic, and both of us think it's good, deep, fun, and useful.

Errm...exactly where did I say it was "pointless"? Your reply pretty much echoes my first paragraph; ie, just speaking about it for the sake of a conversation:

   In this case, I always feel that discussing the battle between  Science and Religion is masturbatory. Everybody knows that the opposing sides go no where with it, and it's an endless battle. Conversing over it, I guess, just seems like something to do when you're bored, and never truly serves an endpoint, other than "we'll never agree with each other, but lets just keep on debating till we die." Just more questions, doubt in the other side, and in the worst case scenario(but a small percentage), anger and hostility. Granted, anger and hostility comes from religious FANATICS majority of the time, but it's never right to assume all religious people would do the same.

   In any case, it seems most of us are heavily set in our ways right now, so I don't expect opinions to change. I'm just wondering what state the world will be in, when our generation begins to take over companies, economy, and countries. Will we still be in the same place we are today, arguing over deities we've never seen, conversing over theories that will never come to light in our age, combating opinions over things that human eyes will most likely NEVER see until our species has completely died out? Hard to say right now, though, as I'm speaking in terms of a U.S. citizen, where as other children of the world in lesser developed countries are brought up so strictly in their ways(education, religion) that I can't speak for the majority, in that our generation is any better than the previous. But I can HOPE. And I have FAITH that we can come to the conclusion to politely disagree, and go about our business smiling, even though it may never happen. And Having hope and faith is a concrete enough idea for me to put 100% into, which is good enough for me, without the security blanket of another human's supposed theory.

But seriously, after all this heated debate, I think it's time that we all just put our differences aside, and have some good ole' fashion angry sex... :P

55
General Discussion / Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
« on: January 27, 2009, 05:42:55 pm »
   In this case, I always feel that discussing the battle between  Science and Religion is masturbatory. Everybody knows that the opposing sides go no where with it, and it's an endless battle. Conversing over it, I guess, just seems like something to do when you're bored, and never truly serves an endpoint, other than "we'll never agree with each other, but lets just keep on debating till we die." Just more questions, doubt in the other side, and in the worst case scenario(but a small percentage), anger and hostility. Granted, anger and hostility comes from religious FANATICS majority of the time, but it's never right to assume all religious people would do the same.
   To me, the basis of Science and Religion is really a challenge between knowledge and faith: ie, "I have faith that you will do this", will always combat " I KNOW that you will do this." Knowing something will happen, always seems to have a neutral connotation to it. Bad things can come of it, and so can good things come of it, but the point is, it was known to happen anyway. The brain is wired this way, we can't help it. It's kind of the same reasoning as something hitting you in the gut: if the hit is known prior, the brain will try to prepare itself chemically and mentally, before hand. If it isn't known, and the hit comes out of no where, the brain doesn't have time to prepare, and pain sensors sometime go into overload. Where as faith comes into play, it's a matter of wanting to believe that something will happen. That something is expected without so much factual evidence. Could be possible that what ever it is, it's happened before, you've seen it with your own eyes, but you EXPECT it to happen again, rather than KNOW. And this is the problem.
   Now I know religion, in terms of definition, is NOT the same thing as faith, more so partners in crime with each other. However, don't these debates seem to always end up against a brick wall at this point, when knowledge is challenged against faith? Both parties are equally intelligent enough to at least know that the 2 word's definitions are not one in the same, yet one or the other keeps asking why? Seriously an endless circle jerk of people who aren't seeing the greater picture here...and I mean the fanatics of BOTH sides, not just one.
   For the time being, however, it's much easier to pick on religion, as it's outdated, and has far less firmware upgrades than that of Science. Science isn't totally perfect, however. It just has a better way of answering it's previous flaws and wrong answers by calling it's current statements "theories." It's kind of like saying "this is the answer for now, until proven wrong later on. If someone challenges us, we'll just tell them it was a theory, and that it wasn't concrete to begin with, and prone to change with future updates."...Science has built itself fairly well on this concept and it works fine, to be quite honest. We've gotten modern medicine, technology, and healthier because of it. But again, it's not perfect either. After all, we once thought the world was flat, and look what happened there(I know, I know, it's an easy target...but I had to ...).
   I guess to put it simply, I will agree with others in that Religion is flawed in many ways. It's also very hard to defend against a "science" man's perspective. But if there really is a true God out there, I'm sure our simple scientific theories will still NEVER fully understand it's entity and well being, or how it came into effect, probably because this God-like entity has been around for so long, that it's at a much higher intelligible level than we are. Also, I'm sure it moved on many billion years ago to other side projects, rather than dealing with a couple of living beings who debate over trite things such as this. I'm sure there are other living beings, possibly more advanced than us, that also have this same conversation, and also get no where with it. So I guess if it ever came down to it, and I were to meet this God, any question I would first ask him would probably have an answer something close to " Uhmmm, which Universe are you from again?"

*heh, such an abrupt sentence to end a long series of masturbatory paragraphs, that derive too far from the main subject. Oh the irony...*


56
Archived Activities / Re: Secret Santa 2008!
« on: December 26, 2008, 05:28:53 am »
THANKS OVERKILL!!! I like his bird-pants, heh. Like how you incorporated my fav' colors into the piece too. Great job! :)

@Opacus: Hope you liked it! And now that it's past the dead line, I can post the alternates that I couldn't submit to Panda, as I was gone the whole week without internet connection to my parents, before coming back today. Hope it's ok with the mods..

scanline version(I prefer this one than the original, as it works better as a desktop backround, but the Scanline method doubled the already large color count : / ):



Post Apocalyptic Tingle!:




@Huzba: ...That's feckin' awesome...

And to everyone else: Wonderful gifts all around, and great job. Whatever Holiday you celebrate at this time of year, Happy "That"!!

57
Is there any where I can go to get halp on my gift?

Passout, that's kinda' a gray area, as you are not to post the piece in question any where here, and if caught by a member elsewhere, could also suffer some possible consequences. Don't worry about it looking super fantastic, though, as it's the thought that matters, not the "Ub3r L33t Skillz!!1!".  :P

58
   This is more a general statement then it is a critique, but I'll say it anyway: What's the point of starting another wip, if you're going to leave the other, well...unfinished? I guess I'm not understanding the point in doing this, unless these drawings are just scraps, and their really just for showcase, rather than critique. If for critique, I'd suggest sticking with one thing and trying to finish it to the best of your ability, while listening to worthwhile critique, before moving on to something else. Else, you'd be prone to developing a bad habit...

59
Har, Har, looks like the Panda-system is flawed, heh.... :P

60
General Discussion / Re: Official Off-Topic Thread
« on: November 22, 2008, 04:43:40 pm »
   I guess the question is did Mobile phone games ever round up a hardcore fan base? I think the answer is no. I think mobile games are so restricted due to it's technical limitations, that most realize they can play games on another handheld system, that's made purely for games, with less limitations, making for better animation, and graphics. People understand that a tiny cell phone can't hold all that info, so games are mostly casual on it, in my opinion. Not to mention, no one has done much ground breaking in terms of game play and whatnot, nor has a company gained mega status as "the best" game developer with cell phone games(save for better graphics, with better hardware and software on the cellphone). Just another outlet to play the game, that's all. I believe they will remain casual, but not go out of fashion...hope this made any sort of sense.

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