Holy crap! While watching the thread in the background, I remember reading the first "TheOne" post, and thinking "*sigh*...I'm guessing this is Sharprm in sheep's clothing"...who else would jump on the chance at another silly debate of defining pixel art. Didn't want to say anything, but sad to see that I was right. Great artist, with an unfortunate bad attitude.
   More on topic, though: I thought the subject of this topic was: " How did the old masters create their pixel artwork (e.g. Simon the Sorcerer)?  "? This was answered in the first couple of posts, yet the topic has been derailed completely by something so silly.
   Did something happen here? Why is it when so innocent a topic is brought up with the generic sense "of how it's done", some person with built in rage has to come in, twist and turn it to his own personal agenda of " I'm gonna' show these young whippersnappers how we used to do things in the olds days!1!"
   It seems to me that the other side of the argument isn't understanding something that's very clear to the majority; This is a website with it's own personal opinion on something. ie, this is what Pixelation would LIKE pixel art to be, though it's not the definitive of the art form. It's the sites opinion on it, just like any other site, and by members joining, they are also showing a willingness to be compatible along with it. Baseball is a form of a sport. Players don't join baseball, and expect them to start allowing on field tackling, and gladiator bat-battles at each base. It's a sport with understood rules. You play by the rules, or get out. So easy a concept to understand, and it simply boggles my mind, when people come into something with set rules, and decide that they're rules are better.
   By arguing with the users here about that subject, you're only raising it higher in your own psyche(and possibly even others), that this site's opinion on pixel art is the definitive. Which it ISN'T. Again, it's just what we'd like it to be(which I agree with, and feel it's EXTREMELY helpful in shaping good pixel artists...the number of pixel artists who used these ideals have gone on to make games professionally, with QUALITY work.)These type of arguments go no where, because no one person has the high ground, or the final word on such a silly subject. There are gray areas between all forms of art, yet you feel the need to justify your claim with " Nuh uh, it's graphic art and fine art...critiquing on a new formulated opinion is totally pretentious. We do things the fun way, not the boring way. That's the way we used to roll, and how it should be!!1!". That's too silly to even take seriously. Sounds to me like you're unwilling to change your ideals of art, which I guess is fine, as it's your opinion. This can be respected, I suppose.
   But when nips turn into biting, this starts turning into a case of "trolling." The topic question was answered, but the need to keep pestering on with something so dumb, is beyond me. I just hope that the "protesters" of the means of pixel art, can understand this one day. And if you feel so strongly about the way things are handled, why not just make another site with it's own set of ideals on pixel art? You obviously feel you have something to prove here, so why not just take it a step further, and see if it develops into something worthwhile, rather than starting something troll-like, and trying to stop the rest of us in ENJOYING what we do.

If the challenges aren't meant to be dead serious then maybe the mods should reflect that attitude by not taking their deadlines and rules so seriously either.

   Once again, we can't change the deadlines, that's automated. I don't see how that even reflects any sort of "seriousness" other than it being purely a technical reason. We just put it out there(quite literally, on the front page with a ticking timer), so all users can see it. The rules are created mainly by challenge winners, and if need be, tweaked by us mods(with their permission of course). We just want to respect that user's rules toward the challenge. If there is an issue during the week of that challenge, sometimes we actually DO ask the challenge creator if it's ok to let that challenge submission slide, or allow it. To be fair, that person earned it, we try to follow his/her initial view of how the challenge rules are ran, rather than handing them a gift, dismantling it without their permission and handing it back to them. Just like in politics, it's never the good things you do that get recognition, but more over the bad things. Human nature, I suppose....

I also appreciate that you took your time to post and explain things to me.

However I feel like if the creator isn't there to sort these situations out it's kinda like a medieval kingdom that's run by the villagers.  Isn't there a way that more people could get control of the site so these kinds of problems wouldn't happen again.  It all seems highly too automated.  And I realized I missed the deadline but were the rules clearly stated I would've submitted my single sprite only 

   We DO have access to certain things and tools that other users do not. These things help us moderate the site and make sure it's functioning properly, as well as with the general user base. In that aspect, I'm not sure I understand the villagers concept. At any given point, a mod can step down, and another user can fill his shoes. This isn't some figurative monarchy, it's a general community of artists. And every website needs a bit of rules to keep it in check on certain things. I can understand that some views on pixelart differ from site to site, but that's what makes each site stand out! We don't claim to be the definitive of what pixel is; rather, it's just that way the site would rather it be. Please understand this.
   If we have something that's TRULY bothersome, we do get in contact with the site creator, and try to make some adjustments. He has and DOES come through for us in those occasions. Besides those strange site issues, it's mostly things that can generally get worked out by us,(otherwise, it's pointless to have moderators, wouldn't you say?).
   As for another overcompensation comment, I'm not too sure if that point was made about the way challenges are ran, or just generalizing moderation of the site entirely. It really boils down to the amount of users active on the site. On Pixelation, the volume of users isn't as high, and submission of art isn't as high as well. This makes rules much more easier to pin down, as the general active user base has a firm understanding of them as well, and can easily explain them to newcomers too. This also has lead to what can be percieved to be seen by a newcomer as "a site with elite artists, with harsh criticism", because of it being a very tight knit group(though, I'm glad to see some more lurkers come out of hiding and submitting art....).
   Because of this, a user will usually go to another site where he/she feel there are artists more along his or her level. At this point, we get to Pixeljoint. The site is general open to any user willing to submit pixel art, in a gallery mindset; gallery mindset meaning more of a show and tell type thing. Though criticism is still encouraged, some users tend to be a bit over-polite, and avoid any type thinking that they are jerks. And due to this mindset, many newcomers tend to go to Pixeljoint, before they consider Pixelation(mainly going off of user's transitions from one site to another, that I've seen in the past, ever since I've been active on both sites...ie, just my view, not a fact...at least not yet : P) So when these new users come to a "pixel art" site, they're not so keen as to how go about making cleaner pixel art, or pixel art at all. The large userbase also makes it difficult for us to get to each of their questions(though we do get to them eventually, even though most are generally answered by our FAQ page, which hardly anybody ever looks at   ) And in this setting, there's no doubt that sooner or later something will be misunderstood, or a catch-22 will be found. That's where we come in to try and sort things out to help them understand. Some issues get resolved, and others linger with time.
   We try to guide them, with these set of rules we've chosen, in helping them make better art for display of their gallery. I'm all about improvement, and am glad each time I see a user in the weekly showcase, whose gallery showed how much they've improved from past to present. If any user here has any objection to that on the basis that this "competition" ruins any type of artistic integrity, I think that's down right silly.
   Finally, let's get one particular thing straight: we're NOT the only site that enforces rules. Not to be combative, but moreso as an example, does not pixelation enforce it's rules during a challenge? Say for example, in 2008, we're people not to be temp. banned if they didn't meet a Secret Santa deadline? When doing the Hex collab, were there not rules to follow in submitting a tile, or else it would be turned back until fixed? Why is this so much different from the rules of Pixeljoint challenges? I guess I am picking on Pixelation a bit, with a greater reasoning for understanding the mindset, even though this thread wasn't brought about by any mod here, nor does it really represent the general mindset of the site.
   I just say this because it truly chaps my bum, that even though these 2 sites have co-existed for so long, that I get the feeling there's some type of passive aggressive view over the other, or how things are ran. It's as if we're the butt of some joke, even though we support activity on this site, and post it on our site. I'd just rather not see the relationship between these two sites disintegrate, because of petty views over each other(not specifically pertaining to pixelation, as I'm sure some pixeljoint users feel the same about this site as well).
  In either way, more towards Mike, and without sidetracking any longer, I can definitely understand your frustration. To put it plainly, it'd best suit you to submit something a bit earlier, or post it in the pj challenge thread in the forum if you feel the piece in question is questionable per challenge rules so the mods can make a hasty decision, or give you more guidance.(again, you're not the only one this has happened to. Ask an awesome artist by the name of Stickman, who this has happened to about 3 times now. However, he understands the technicality of the site and gets why it happens.) If you don't give us time to help you, than it's much more difficult to give you time to make you're issue work out. I also hope this doesn't have any affect on future submissions to the site, as you're a pretty good pixel artist.

Thanks again, The B.o.b.

Out of curiosity, and pertaining to the means: was this color reduced than lightly touched up?

HAPPY NEW YEARS YOU GUYS!!!!
Party hardy, safely!

Happy new year guys.

I got a question about ProMotion 5, not worth making a topic for though.
How do you select something? Seriously. Am I just a morron for not having figured out how to do this, or does ProMotion not have a selection box?
(It seems so illogical that it doesn't have one. Seeing as it's a proffesional program, and even Paint has this basic option)

Heh, I remember the first time I got Promotion I had the same basic question, being used to MS Paint's quirks. You're gonna' have to get used to the "animated brush" selection option(the dotted square) and the "freehand brush" selection option(the lasso) to take the place of the selection tool in Promotion. It's a bit jarring at first, but you'll get used to it within about 4-5 pieces. Trust me on this one, I'm a hardcore MS paint user, and Promotion is DEFINITELY friendly to ex-MSpaint users. It'll even get to the point, where Promotion may surpass your expectations of MSPaint. You'll become so used to hot-keys, that you'll be scratching your head when using mspaint, and finding that your left hand is hitting hot keys for no reason(in my experience, that's the one thing my brain keeps forgetting, when transitioning from PM to MSP)

Heh, Rorschach'd...I love it. Thank you, Heyy13!