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Messages - Vinik
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191
Pixel Art / Re: Trouble with isometric shading
« on: October 11, 2017, 03:40:35 pm »


Let me illustrate the issue. Above is an early attempt to do all the faces with only 5 colors (good tier ramp for me). However, it immediately feels "crystalline" as if the darker faces were reflecting some other source of light, which might even be cool, but wasn't intended, and it totally fails with the different construction below, while using the same angles.

192
Pixel Art / Re: Trouble with isometric shading
« on: October 11, 2017, 02:56:44 pm »
Thank you, do you mean it is darker than it should be instead of lighter? Because the top is the second lighter shade. The reason I made it darker is because the light is supposed to come from an upper angle, slightly higher than 45º from the ground, so that the right ramp facing up is the brightest, but still not getting super light from glare.

The main error seems to come from the fact that I tried to reuse colors, when it should actually be one color for each specific angle of the faces. In any case there seems to be 9 visible angles, but 9 shades of every color ramp from dark to mid tones is way over what I am comfortable to work with. Even if I connect the color ramps and reuse the last two darks it would still demand a larger palette than I would like.That is why I tried to reuse the shades on faces that wouldn't touch each other, but as you can see, that is difficult to predict, there can always be a construction that would make them touch and break the sense of volume.

For instance, I know the top right ramp on the larger "dome" should be a lot darker considering the angle of light, but whenever I painted it darker, it didn't looked like a opaque prism anymore, and was implying some sort of crystal. The makeshift lighter tone seems to be acting like a back light or difuse light somehow, and adds to the shape, but it is incorrect and wasn't intentional.

Thanks again, I think I need references to study since instinct alone isn't making it.

193
Pixel Art / Trouble with isometric shading
« on: October 11, 2017, 03:53:41 am »
Hello everyone, I have finally started experimenting with isometric tiles after avoiding it for a while. I surrendered to classic isometric 2/1 neat diagonals after feeling the recurrent urge of having diagonal rooms in my topdown prototype, instead of only rooms aligned to the xy axis. I naturally realized in shock that 2/1 regular diagonals do not match front facing 4:3 or 3:2 parallel perspectives tile-sets, and that raster diagonals that match those angles are jagged and bad for pixel art. You can see high school level geometry inst my forte, given that it took me so long to realize that.

Anyway, i think I got the basics covered, but I am struggling with properly shading isometric tiles when various ramps are involved. Specifically, I cant decide in a clear logical way which shade to put correctly in which face given the chosen light source, leading to neighbor faces with apparently to much contrast between each other (top right and bottom left diagonal faces of the "solids" being worst offenders), and I  also end up with a higher color count than I imagined to be necessary for such basic shapes.

Thank you all in advance for any pointers and tips which might help to improve this and correct the shading. This is what I came up with for a template:


194
General Discussion / A tight 4 shades 11 colors palette
« on: March 04, 2017, 06:03:06 am »
Sometime ago Cyangmou gave me a great lesson on color palettes and color in general when I tried to calculate a palette keeping values constant across all hues and failed bad. Since then I have been on and off about trying to make a more personal palette, learned to love and respect saturated reds and yellows but remained still interested in the tight swatches of supergameboy's/gameboy color 4 shades mixing and the similar results I was getting with a few colors from nes ntsc palettes. I finally tried to nail down what I was really trying to achieve, and realized I wanted a tight, four shades at most, somewhat sepia palette, that would give me a pokemon on gameboy vibe but with higher hue variation and lowered saturation, resembling colored pastels over a drab, darker paper. I decided I would be strict in only keeping useful colors, something I learned here. This is what I came up, 11 colors in total:

I am still uncertain about the yellow ramp, and in doubt if it deserves its own third shade, since I am using a greyish dark purple instead of brow or dark olive. I think one of the keypoints in making this colors work is use a lot of the brightest color in the sprites, and the contrast of the drab "white" and the second shade of yellow is not ideal yet. I value you guys opinions a lot, and would like any input you might have on anything that might improve this. Thanks in advance.

195
General Discussion / Re: A linear palette that can hue-shift
« on: September 27, 2016, 03:10:33 am »
Thank you too for the input RAV, one of the early motivations to make such swatch-organized palettes indeed was my thoughts on how to handle real time shadows that would respect a previously defined palette, but you are right when you say that there are much easier ways to do that today, to the point one should think if it is worth the trouble.

Here is a different palette, this more hand made, but also plagued by not reality-checking. It seems I enter into a different mindset when I am trying to create a palette, that prevents me from realizing why it wont work with shapes the way it works with simple ramps. That is why I tried to do some math to keep things balanced.

196
General Discussion / Re: A linear palette that can hue-shift
« on: September 27, 2016, 02:36:40 am »
Thank you very much Cyangmou for the lengthy, insightful answer. Rest assured that, although a beginner with pixels, I can understand what you said from my background, and after reading it I do feel quite dumb for trying to come up with a more "rational" way to develop a palette, as if there was a shortcut to make it my own.

Somehow I assumed there was some secret about keeping value constant that made palettes look more balanced, and I was going for something like that here, in a very failed experiment, thinking it was somehow better than other palettes I developed more naturally. The brights indeed are more like placeholders than individual colors, they all look the same, almost the same for the darks. That was already the case with NES NTSC I started from, but looking at a lot of numbers I thought I had fixed them without actually reality checking, I don't know how I managed to do that, really sorry  :D

As Cyangmou explained very clearly, each hue have its own "quirks", and they just cant be treated the same, yellow is so inherently brighter to point it is no longer yellow if darkened, blue azure cant be made brighter without looking more like lilac and so on. Trying to handle yellow, purple and deep blue the same way I would handle "easier" colors in HSL have always been puzzling, and after a while I started to learn to compensate the differences with brightness, saturation etc.

I do have a basic understanding of that, and my previous palettes are probably more useful than this one. After reading a lot of "tutorials" I did became in love with the uniformity of color models that compensate the inherent brightness of each hue, and I thought I had something there :-[

Here is a previous experiment on generating a palette where all colors would decay towards the same dark purple and rise towards the same light yellow, this time with a ramp generator (shame), I can now see that same mistake happens here:

In my defense, when I used it I restricted my self to half of the shades and used the others as intermediaries for AA. But there are a lot of very similar colors.

From now on I will refrain from trying to model palettes, I will review what I think I know about color, and I will try craft my palettes according to what I like, what works, and what I need.

197
General Discussion / A linear palette that can hue-shift
« on: September 26, 2016, 10:03:52 pm »
Hello everyone, I believe this the right place to post this, sorry if I am mistaken. Since I have restarted pixeling I have tried to learn about "good" palettes, and, as you can imagine everything points to connected, hue-shifted swatches and keeping a "low" color count. But then again, I keep redoing said palettes for each piece, and I miss the sense of continuity that I had way back when I knew nothing of typical pixel art palette choice, and used basically linear palettes only with slight tweaks. Sometimes I don't feel like hue-shifting at all, sometimes it seems absolutely necessary. Because of that I started experimenting with 4-steps linear, mostly unconnected palettes that can be used to start faster, and also hue-shift pretty well when needed as if it was designed for that. This is what I came up with recently:

I started by tweaking the aseprite's NES NTSC palette which was already in 4 shades and somewhat value corrected, shrinked it by cutting a lot of blues and purples, then started changing the entries the make it possible for any swatch to be hue-shifted as nicely as possible by simply picking the colors diagonally in either direction.

The first row is the palette (40 colors + transparent), the second and third ones are all the possible diagonal shifts. Some shifts are not usable the way they are right now, but I want to keep adjusting it so that all are usable. Even if I failed, it was good exercise, and it made me look at shifts I would probably never think of, but have a pretty interesting effect.

Right now It does not have any grays or desaturated colors for metals etc, and I cant see how to insert a proper red or yellow. I would really like any input you guys could give me on how to make this work and reduce distortions, thank you very much.

198
Pixel Art / Re: Jungle tileset background.
« on: September 26, 2016, 02:47:37 am »
Thanks, that is what I thought. The solution for properly pixelated light effects surely must be setting everything for the 1:1 internal resolution. The paletted lights and shadows, however is something I've never seen in action aside from 16-bit era videogames, and I am not sure it is worth the trouble (but it is sweet in link to the past shadowy dungeons, I refuse to believe they doubled the tileset and sprites just for shading). Having a palette swap system working, however, seems very useful for various reasons besides light effects. Oh, and sorry for hijacking the thread, I was just curious and I learn something everyday on these boards.

199
Pixel Art / Re: Jungle tileset background.
« on: September 25, 2016, 04:00:21 pm »
Quick question while you are at it, does the light effect respects the pixel matrix or the palette? I have always considered how it was done in snes zelda, most likely a palette swap for light, and wonder if something similar can be achieved in current engines, all unity or game maker light effects I see break the "resolution" and are unrestrained by the palette. It does looks awesome by the way.

200
Pixel Art / Re: Here goes a tree
« on: September 25, 2016, 03:38:24 pm »
Hey I am back after a flu, here is the latest attempt, the more I look at real trees and references, the more I see repeated patterns, same-shape forms with regularity broken only by fusion or separation, so I tried to fuse more and got rid of the very small indefinite tufts, but it did loose a lot of texture. Maybe now it seems less tridimentional than the second one, but from the first attempt it is improved, and it there is much more darkened gaps implying branches. Thank you so much Meat for all the help.
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