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Messages - thoughtmachine
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11
Pixel Art / Re: UPDATE: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit Design ~ OCTO FORCE
« on: February 06, 2015, 01:37:14 pm »
In most of what I've seen in the topic, and the link you gave with some of your earlier work, it's just a lot of drawn lines and gradients. I've seen quite a bit of solid advice here, and I feel like you have ignored a lot of it.
You claim that the challenge of working on a larger scale is worth it,.....

You are being way too judgmental and you are making to many derogative assumptions about me.

I'm not an expert on this, and it's just my opinion. But you need to back off.


Realize the illegitimacy of what you are claiming.

My earlier works on that blog were made last year before I came to this forum. Therefore, they are going to be below the high standards of this forum. I am not going to spend the next 3 to 6 months redoing them to satisfy the self proclaimed experts in this forum. I have other priorities. But--realize--that does not mean I did not listen to the advice given in this forum.

Now, as far as the Pterodactyl is concerned, I don't have obligations to any of you.
I have a right to stick to what I see as a high enough standard of quality in my art.
Again, that does not mean I did not listen to the advice given in this forum.



I realize that some of you live to improve the techniques of making pixel art and that is fine.
But let's not lose sight of what art is and is not.

Art is supposed to be imperfect.
By its very definition art is imperfect.
There are no standards when it comes to art.
There is no high standard or low standard in art.

The child who scribbles on scrap paper is just as artistic as the man or woman who uses a fine paint brush on penicillin. However, the artist who uses a laser and a microscope to ensure a high level of accuracy in his or her art is no longer an artist.



I am in the business of making video games.
In the world of making computer games, most of the games that were sold and made millions did not have art that was perfect under a microscope.

Chronotrigger and Secret of Mana are two of the most highly praised games when it comes to art. However, back when they became mega hits--Final Fantasy, Mario, and Zelda were clunky. And all of those games sold more units and have made more sequels than Chronotrigger and Secret of Mana, combined. And the same can be said for Metroid, Contra, Ninja Gaiden and many, many other games that sold more units than Chronotrigger and Secret of Mana.

The fact that a) Secret of Mana is a spin off of Final Fantasy and b) Chronotrigger was made by the same company is supports my theory that great things can come from imperfect art and clunky beginnings.


In the world of business you always come to a point when you decide that the amount of quality is high enough to satisfy the market. The fact that the quality might not satisfy some critics is irrelevant. The critics aren't in business to make money by applying their art. The critics are in business to criticize art they believe doesn't live up their personal standards.

If we return to an earlier point in this post where we discussed the imperfections in The Transformers and Gundam Wing transformations we have to realize that these very successful people decided to fall short of what some idealists argue 'would have been a higher standard'. While I am one of those idealists, I too am a business person and I have to put my ideals aside to make money.

If the very successful artists behind Final Fantasy, Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Contra, Ninja Gaiden, The Transformers, and Mobile Suit Gundam Series can make millions with imperfect art, I know that I can at least make a decent living.



Having said all of that I am grateful for the advise and wisdom that has come from the years that all of you have put into improving your art techniques.

Myself I am aiming to improve the techniques in my art, because I want an edge.

But that does not mean that I am going to spend the next 5 years in a bunk job so I can appease the high standards of the self proclaimed experts and critics in this forum who (regardless of how great and perfect their art looks under a microscope) have most likely never shifted their priorities long enough to make a living with their art.

I will continue to come here to get advice, but I will not come here and listen to people (who have most likely never successfully applied their art to make a decent living) tell me that I am wrong from not doing exactly what they believe is correct, as if they are universally recognized as Gods in the world of art.


Before any of you try to correct my perspective, consider this:

Many of you purchased and enjoyed games like Mario, Zelda, Metriod, Contra, and Ninja Gaiden. Many of you purchased and enjoyed The Transformers and the Mobile Suit Gundam Series.

Did the imperfections in their art stop you from buying and enjoying those products? No it did not. And the same is true for the rest of the market.

Art is art. Art is not meant to perfect. Art does not have standards. Art is not science.

The child who scribbles on scrap paper is just as artistic as the man or woman who uses a fine paint brush on penicillin. However, the artist who uses a laser and a microscope to ensure a high level of accuracy in his or her art is no longer an artist.


Lastly...
Why did I come to this forum, to gain some advice. And I have done that.
Why did you come to this forum? So you can give advice and you have done that.
We have both done what we came to do. I am satisfied with that.

12
Pixel Art / Re: UPDATE: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit Design ~ OCTO FORCE
« on: February 06, 2015, 12:38:47 am »
I doubt you will ever find a consistent and complete guide on any art topic. There are always different point of views and receptions if it comes to that.
The important thing is that you understand the concepts and the reasoning behind them and learn from what is trying to be taught. How you apply it is up to you.

thanx for that insight bit.
It makes sense I suppose.

13
Pixel Art / Re: UPDATE: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit Design ~ OCTO FORCE
« on: February 05, 2015, 11:34:16 pm »
Most of the things you have there look very inconsistent when it comes to the shading.
The perspective is really strange for the ortographic drawings. Using gradients is not a good substitute for shading.
The lines are very uneven and jaggy.

You need to train your eye and see how things look, don't just draw what you think they look like.

Start drawing using only 4 colors, it's a great practice to get a feel for shapes.
Don't draw using lines, draw using blotches/clusters of colors. It's really important to have a good contrast palette when you're doing this, because otherwise it will look flat.

I forgot to link to this:
http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11299

I have that blink already, but I have not taken the time to read that tutorial.
I have gone through several other tutorials already, but so many of them seem inconsistent and incomplete.

thank you for the tips

14
Pixel Art / Re: UPDATE: Pterodactyl Mobile Suit Design ~ OCTO FORCE
« on: February 05, 2015, 07:42:26 pm »
@Seiseki

These are some of my older works.
http://manufacturedart.blogspot.com/p/2d-cgi.html
Could you take a look at those and let me know what you think?

15
Pixel Art / UPDATE: The Pterodactyl Mobile Suit ~ OCTO FORCE
« on: February 05, 2015, 04:37:39 pm »
@EVERYONE:

Keep the advice coming guys your advise is a lot of help.

This isn't my first boat, but this is my first robot.
So please be patient with me and stick around.
I hope to impress all of you when it is competed.




16
Pixel Art / Re: Female Sprite Faces for Mobile Suit game ~ OCTO FORCE
« on: February 05, 2015, 03:59:08 pm »
hmmm...okay. Thanx for the advice.

17
Pixel Art / Re: Sword and shield
« on: February 05, 2015, 03:54:43 pm »
I want to thank you all for the info and help. I am going to work on the sword and shield just to help me practice pixel artwork more and will show the edit. And then moving to another project. Thanks again  ;D

Cool. Right now you have an opportunity to learn from your mistakes.

Imagine you scanned an awesome drawing that you drew on paper. I call that a "dirty picture".
The scanned picture now has 500 to 10,000 deviant pixels that you have to remove.

Everyone knows its easier to draw with pencil than with a digital pad (or god forbid a mouse), but if you spend too much time cleaning that dirty picture then you might as well had drawn the picture on your PC and saved time in doing so. It's a matter of time spent versus time wasted.

Having said that, a lot can be learned from editing your own mistakes.

Feel free to use my edit to work off of, ....

Rather than using an edit (of your art) from someone else to assist your efforts at this one small project, I would take the picture that you turned into a jpg and clean it.
Use this as an opportunity to learn from your mistakes.

There are many, many different techniques to quickly clean a "dirty picture" but IF you don't know what those techniques are, you could spend hours removing all of the pixels while trying to not mess up your scan. Whereas the dirty picture can be cleaned with two or three clicks of your mouse, once you learn the right techniques.

18
- You have a bunch of outlines on the wings that don't connect which looks very odd.

Thanx I never noticed the harsh lines. I fixed it.




- Reduce the resolution, you're working with a lot of pixels.

I know its easier, but challenge is worth the effort.

- Focus on getting a solid base shape and anatomy first.

I did , but I missed a few things.


- You also need to get a better palette, it lacks contrast and you have too many colors.
- Try to avoid gradients as much as you can, because it makes it look very cheap.

Actually, if you read back to my earlier posts...I stated "when it is done, I will be using the same coloring techniques used by Square when they did (the guardian boss) in Chrono Trigger."
http://cdn.wikimg.net/strategywiki/images/c/cf/CT_monster_Guardian.png
Disclaimer: Image is owned by Square Enix and is hosted by http://strategywiki.org


- As others have pointed out, it's very stiff! Look at more references. Try breaking up those straight lines.

I'm on it. That is my next goal.

19
Pixel Art / Re: Sword and shield
« on: February 05, 2015, 02:45:10 am »
I have saved it as a jpeg before and png.

Never save anything as a jpeg.

That is like finding a solid gold nugget and turning it into lead.

Instead of worrying over an old piece why not make a new sword...

20
Pixel Art / Re: The Evil Eye -- the Secrets of an Evil Antagonist
« on: February 05, 2015, 02:32:04 am »
You play with making him less symmetrical, evil is usually portrayed asymmetric (and it could look more interesting imo).

I wasn't asking about my thing I drew, but okay I'll give it a shot.

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