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Messages - RAV
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271
General Discussion / Re: NEW CLUSTER STUDY THREAD!
« on: December 27, 2013, 10:29:21 am »
Though, if we go by the notion of pixel art as a conscious mode of work to learn about, rather than definition of happenstance result, then it becomes a "platform agnostic" principle. That means, the truest teaching of this school is universal in application as much as recognizable.

The pixel art is first and foremost based on a morphological idea of pixel. The pixel changed over time, as the physical definition of hardware changed, both in possible colour and dimension. Thus it can also be abstracted to a "virtual pixel", which in its most base form is simply a scaled pixel to emulate its history.

But why stop there. Part of my own research on virtual screenspace is to show how weird it can get, while keeping all artistic lore applicable:


Then of course, most should already know when I did this:


Most importantly though, what you might not yet know is my abstraction to it:


So, looking at the end of the last, what if a single "pixel" is not only 3d, but also of arbitrary size and even in form of a "half-pixel", which then is a natural 45°.

You might feel I am stretching it now, and misappropriating this thread, and maybe I am. But if nothing else, at least cluster theory is relevant to it, so this is where my interest comes form.

272
General Discussion / Re: NEW CLUSTER STUDY THREAD!
« on: December 26, 2013, 04:48:42 pm »
If we go by the idea that every school of art is an actual... school, that is to teach something specific, instead of a genre definition that excludes everything else, then the regular training in the core tradition is to help you improve even in your divergence, rather than tell you not to.

273
General Discussion / Re: King Arthur's Gold
« on: December 14, 2013, 11:41:13 am »
I'd say there's a difference between picking some colour and a fine-tuned palette as a whole.

However, the derivative property of a work is defined by several indicators, not in isolation but combination, colours is one clue among several to properly justify a case.

And there is a proportion of inspiration taken and work accomplished. It is silly to discredit a huge and fantastic work just because of some similarity of colour in some part of it; yet in a small and uninteresting one of which the choice of colours might be its only redeeming standout feature, that may bear mentioning by someone.

It should be given appreciation how difficult it is to really distinguish a work on small scale towards the purpose of it; there is just so much you can expect. However if there is a remaining opportunity for differentiation, making good on it shall be its glory, more than the miss its shame.

Then there is something to be said about manners when people make it a dedicated effort to provide for you. But also, it should be in relation of how much it matters to their benefit, and how much it matters to the goal and success of your work.

Not my business really, just some general thoughts.

274
General Discussion / Re: Pixel art genres
« on: July 26, 2013, 01:08:34 pm »
*bump*

In a transitioning interlope to topic, let's talk about this greatness of art.

Is art shallow when it doesn't claim "something deep", is art pretentious when it does?
Is something deep only if it is melancholic, mysterious, sad and tragic?
Great only if you are compelled to stare at it for hours, great for all people?
Great only if it has lasting mark historically on culture, maybe a great message?
Must you have put a lifetime of effort into a work to have it be any great?

I like Albrecht Dürer, but if every work of art were to become like his, because it is so great an art, it would have a harder and harder time affecting me, no matter how great it is technically and symbolically, its greatness cannot be greater than my moment of mood. The human soul is varied, and so is the greatness of art, and every element of this variety is deeply heartfelt, even the most cheesy romantic giggly huffpuff, even aggression, even hyperventilating rush, cruelty and mockery, or maybe tranquillity, maybe elegance, cliché beauty, or arrogance in technical superiority, and everything else... it's all part of how it feels to be, it's all truly deep, and it stops being deep without all the variety, that's when it becomes shallow and pretentious.

But you can look at this and say, this is the cutest thing I've ever seen, omg look, so cute! and marvel giggling stupid at it for hours, and for you that's a deep experience, as is for the one creating it, while everybody else deems you two shallow, maybe because they are too sad to feel the depth of simple happiness, and vice versa. Or you are mesmerized by a detail of the work, a specialist accomplishment, maybe even something about the process of work, and the big picture doesn't matter for you, maybe not even the result (some even say any result itself of art at work is worthless, and audience can only be shallow), at this moment all you care about is this little something that captured your curiosity, whatever it is, it is so peculiar, it's great, this little thing is a deep world for you, and right now you couldn't care less about the deep greatness of those other big things that are great art, and no one else's opinion changes that, while at the same time you become super shallow for super-imposing its greatness on everything else, to everything's disgrace.

Maybe rather than "great art", we should say "This artwork is great at ... when you are looking for ...". It doesn't need to be super popular to be great, it just needs to be great at something to someone, not at everything it wasn't meant to be, to everyone who cannot see. Popularity is a quality in itself, yet it doesn't measure every other quality of it in greatness nor graveness.

You know Kant's "the critique of pure reason"?, we're talking the artistic limit of pure critique here.
And beyond either limit is the true greatness, and the only way to get there is humility -- a great critique roots in appreciative humility and curiosity in a benefit of doubt.
So that the notion of "great art" doesn't devolve into a question of "real art" -- maybe an oxymoron.

275
General Discussion / Re: Pixel art genres
« on: July 24, 2013, 03:34:46 pm »
Actually we both agree on this. Whether you know it or not, we probably agree on a lot more than disagree. Just this moment I wanted to point out the same, that this really shouldn't be a discussion about whether this is art at all -- be it the choreography or advanced creative photo-sourcing by the same tenets, that's how it came heavily implied in many comments really, so this was up to clarification in my mind -- but whether a particular work is great as an art, or at least whether you like it personally. I also certainly agree on all the nitpicks you would do on the results, the same I want to point out what about it I like still.

I want to get back to topic now as well, I later will put up to discussion what personally interests me in this topic here about styles and pixel art.

276
General Discussion / Re: Pixel art genres
« on: July 24, 2013, 02:39:13 pm »
@Hapiel
We'll come back to it when it's time hap, no worry, but this here is interesting enough to warrant a little detour.

@Helm
You see, that painting did for me as well, I absolutely am a fan of that kind of almost mythological or super-sense-ical stuff, it probably is my personal preference as well. But I also can very much enjoy a broad spectrum of art altogether, each for its own merits. I have you know that I am indeed playing devil's advocate here as you assume, it's not that I have my own creative stake in it, but this touches a lot of philosophical interest I am curious about indeed, and I believe this needs in-depth debate as has happened. I like this place here.

What evokes emotion is in the eye of the beholder I believe. It probably is problematic to make the title of art depend on one persons impression of emotion. Maybe it's better to search for the creator's intend, and many of them, cheap and utilitarian they may be in the aspects you care most about, have other aspects you can clearly see an artistic aspiration, that work on someone open for it.

For example, on that fighting choreography fan-art video, you can clearly sense the animator's experience with dancing, which by itself is a form of emotionally expressive art, as is martial arts in its forms and traditions. In many moments of that video you can sense beautiful elegance and emotional impact. Aspired movement as an emotive language, and thus animation, is art, as is arrangement of scenes, and dramaturgical direction, even if the assets themselves are doubted in their artistic origin, the result contains artistic effort enough to be art. The paper and pencil, as tools and you may even call them assets, are not art, but the drawing is, and that the result also contains "doubtful" elements beyond as a means to an artistic end, you may call these assets also tools as much, still makes it art in the end.

277
General Discussion / Re: Pixel art genres
« on: July 24, 2013, 02:20:00 pm »
It is only a non-sense argument if we are not talking about the same kind of copying, the kind that was discussed in the other thread, the concrete show-off cases of artists at work. That in particular really was not plagiarism, and I thought that everyone talking about copying here is aware of that context. As I explained, like you say for photography "the way you capture the scene is what you bring to the table", I say the way you create a scene is what you bring to the table in photo-sourcing as well, by that it be judged, and it is that obvious effort there that differentiates it absolutely from rip-off the same way photographing random objects outside is not.

278
General Discussion / Re: Pixel art genres
« on: July 24, 2013, 02:03:24 pm »
Maybe our disconnect comes from discussing copying in different context unaware? I speak of copying in a value-free manner, you seem to mean copying as in ripping other people's work off uncredited and for personal profit -- I am against that. As much as I am for fair use.

However, in that sense, when looking at photography strictly, does every photo show only assets owned by the photographer? Are photos showing objects not in your possession ripping someone else off? Or is it the arrangement itself that makes you own your photo, and an obvious effort in arrangement of photo-sources that makes you own the mashup?

Obvious effort in arrangement makes the difference. Just copy pasting someone else's carefully arranged photo art, and that's fuck all, is rats, we agree altogether wholeheartedly. But if the new work is so intensely involved that small samples of various sources become an almost unrecognizeable and minor footnote each on its own, I don't think that's rats, or kinda everything is rats on merest inspiration in any form of art. Frankly, as much as photographers "do not simply flatten reality", photo-sourcers, as demonstrated some day earlier, do not simply "copy&paste", there is definitely much skill involved. There is obvious care in creating the illusion of light, ambiance and composition, and real photography is not any better than the chopping and arranging of objects real life as well. All that talk of differences is romantically super-inflated, to be honest.

279
General Discussion / Re: Pixel art genres
« on: July 24, 2013, 01:23:55 pm »
So it comes down to nitpicking definitions. :) From my point of view photography is or is not copying, as much as photo-sourcing is or is not copying, really, because creatively there is no difference between a real life set piece and a photo-source of a set piece as a set piece re-arranged in an artificial photo -- other than some mythical authenticity, and we've been over that.

280
General Discussion / Re: Pixel art genres
« on: July 24, 2013, 01:15:28 pm »
Examples have been already given, but it seems to me that the focus in critique has been too lopsided, and I don't expect that to improve. You may have missed my edit in the earlier post fielding points about photography itself as art as much as literal copy technique, the *arrangement* is the relation to subject. If you've ever been impressed by photography, you've been impressed by copying. And if not, your definition of art seems narrow to me. I don't think that's a copout.

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