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Messages - BladeJunker
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21
Pixel Art Feature Chest / Re: Pharaohs Return (C64)
« on: June 02, 2012, 10:47:36 pm »

Update.. I tried to make the caves more colorful. Most C64 screenshots seem to utilize the block color for the hilight, so I tried the same here. (using yellow, cyan and green) I kind of love and hate these C64 color restrictions. Still too dark...  :-\


Sprites! Hero, Pharaoh, Mummy, Snake, Bat, Scorpion.

The three "humans" use two overlayed sprites. (a hires sprite on top of a multicolor sprite) This would eat up precious sprites and memory in a real C64 game, but well... I couldn't draw a reasonable figure without that. (there are some real C64 games which did that, too)

All multicolor sprites have to share 2 colors. (here, it's orange and dark grey)

Items: Whip, Dynamite, Gun, Magazine, Bullet, Keys, Potions. (multicolor sprites)
Additional keys and Potions. (this time hires sprites on top of chars, which effectively gives 2 colors)

Looking very good with the change in colors as most people who've done C64 art tend to say greys are better at bridging or shadow as a shared color than as the primary fill color of the sprite art. Me I hate too much grey despite many of my favorite classic computer games using an overabundance of it, a gamer can only look at so much stone & metal. :lol:

I don't think your layered sprite approach is too crazy for the C64 since a surprising number of games used that approach. I know how hard it is to get details into double wide sprites especially small ones. :sigh:
http://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33782&sid=e45ee77c7736ba34cc6bd4ea3304839a

I appreciate the great deal of space offered on screen as a lot of C64 games suffered from a lack of room to move/dodge in the pursuit of detailed pixel art. Also I like the map too, so easy to get lost in a Pharoah's tomb. ;D

22
Pixel Art / Re: Community (NBC Comedy series) game sprites
« on: May 28, 2012, 06:36:41 am »
just wanted to say that looks awesome bladejunker
Well thanks, just something I've been playing with and it seemed like good place to share them. :) Much like Rebel I too would like to see a full game based that episode. ;D

23
Pixel Art / Re: Community (NBC Comedy series) game sprites
« on: May 28, 2012, 04:02:46 am »
Yeah I loved that episode, great gimmick and nice story arch with a great new character in Chevy's brother. Although the gameplay was spoof I thought it had promise compared to Fable and other so called free form games. I thought all the sprites captured and distilled the actors well except for the Brita sprite which looked like a linebacker imo. :lol:

I thought I'd use them to test my double wide (C64/Atari) pixeling skills. Some things changed but I managed to get most of the details into half horizontal resolution.


Great transposing from the episode btw, I know what a pain it can be to draw things with weak source materials. :)

24
General Discussion / Re: EDSCII - an ASCII/ANSI paint tool
« on: May 27, 2012, 07:15:51 pm »
I think its pretty good as its fast, intuitive, and well labeled (pickeR, I like that and wish it were standard in every menu in existence that has keyboard shortcuts.  ;D ). Well thought out I must say since the arbitrary character set approach was the best coarse of action and the export format will get a lot of use for native uses for ASCII/ANSI images on all systems that use them.

Line tool is a good start and I look forward to any other common paint tools like Fill when you add them.

I don't quite understand what Erase is doing or how it works? ???

Its certainly easier than manually inputting such images, that never stopped me though since a family I knew had an old computer and I'd spend hours typing in drawings one line at a time. :yay:

Overall very good, I like it. :)

25
General Discussion / Re: Atari 2600 Pixel Art Guide
« on: May 24, 2012, 07:03:25 am »
Well I'm not done looking into text related rendering but I can at least discuss the basics to begin with.

The majority of text rendering on the 2600 is Player object based or to be more specific heavy multiplexing of Player0 & Player1 and the application of what is called the Venetian Blind display kernel. So its fair to say you're looking at a very prerendered setup for text display like single words, 2X1 letter clusters, and tile constructed fonts.
The Venetian blind methods primary element in function is the memory nybble that exists in the 2 Player objects which have an upper and lower nybble for every 4 bits wide. Basically it shifts both 4 bit wide segments of the Player object up & down per scanline with some flicker, it has the benefit of being fast to render but also that even with flicker it keeps a solid consistent appearance. The main drawback of this is that a 1-line render will look like a 2 line-render or losing half your visible height resolution despite the benefits.
Also this method has a higher cycle cost than a normal display kernel so those costs have to be considered. How much cycle cost really depends on the design of the game you intend but one thing is certain is that you should really decide upon a maximum character amount as the more you push for more characters the less you can do overall in terms of effects and other display trimmings.

Here's a neat kernel that managed 32 characters with a 3 pixel wide font at 2 characters per Player object. That's the big thing to get the maximum number of characters to display.
http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/180632-32-character-text-display/page__st__25

I've been aiming for less characters but larger character fonts for better legibility but no one seems to interested in that yet. Mostly I've been pursuing what I would call the standardized CRT to text approach which is best described in this article. I can't see the images in the page but maybe you can. ???
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/130498/crossplatform_user_interface_.php?print=1
I subscribe to the standards set in this article when it comes to retro gaming as we went through many games with fancy fonts that were hard to read on our game consoles over the years. I was actually quite pleased when I started seeing DS games with big letters that compensated for the distance I hold the unit away from myself and I feel the same way about font to CRT clarity issues.

*Actually that issue with Dead Rising on a SD-TV being unreadable is inexcusable since the level of memory and HUD to font scale options possible today allow not just SD support but also help for people with varying levels of eyesight quality. I don't want to rant but for crying out loud don't neglect the deaf or people with poor eyesight who play video games ijs.

Format:

Its not too difficult to produce content at this standard as you just use a 1:1 pixel unit to compose the image, strip out every second horizontal line, and then offset 50% of the width either up or down the for every Player object sprite block.

I mention 1-line kernel rendering that looks like 2-line but this also progresses lower as well with 2-line rendering looking like 4-line rendering which is what I'd consider the limit of this technique except for large screen filling text or a coarse resolution bitmap.

Now this halving of the vertical resolution is not default since you can actually use the venetian blind rendering with 1-line rendering which people have applied to game sprites, its mostly that in large doses of sprite multiplexing the skipping of lines helps overall with timing and CPU demands of pushing beyond 2 Player objects. So if you were doing a 1 on 1 competitive game 2 sprites with 1-line venetian blind rendering would be mostly practical while a sports game with teams of players or in the case of text with its multiple characters would more the likely need to skip lines or even thicken the scanlines to cope.

For a little background on this here's an interview with the inventor of Venetian Blind rendering.
http://www.digitpress.com/library/interviews/interview_bob_whitehead.html

26
General Discussion / Re: Pixel Shaders
« on: May 22, 2012, 03:06:52 am »
Well I like the concept and I consider it the next best step up from earlier more two dimensional lighting systems. I definitely think 2D in general should use everything afforded by modern technology like normal mapping and frame morphing, I certainly like what Vanillaware has done.

Drawing normals by hand doesn't sound that crazy to me since its essentially what CG modelers do in terms of surface normals. I definitely think Zbrush and the like would help with creation of such sprite layers. Its hard to say where you draw the line or not as you could probably get better results through CG model rendering with painterly passes afterwards.
Here's someone using CG as a base for sprite creation that could help maybe, basically you create a basic model to get the rudimentary normal map(Possibly with subdivision.)and paint in the more complex stuff afterwards. :-\ Idk, its hard to stick to pure 2D with these more complex demands.
http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=167.11274

Oh and I love that Princess Piledriver sprite work, Id love to play that game. ;D

27
General Discussion / Re: Commodore VIC-20 Pixel Art Guide.
« on: May 17, 2012, 08:51:34 pm »

@BladeJunker: Today, I pixeled your concept canvas of the SMW3 mockup (including all test tiles ;)) into MINIPAINT. Some elements had to be re-arranged horizontally (160 pixels horizontal resolution in MP instead of 176 pixels in the concept canvas). It took me roughly 2 hours:


(download)
Very cool and authentic to the original. :lol: Yeah I get lazy and leave a lot of construction and guide lines all over the place. Using the updated colors has been challenging but I'm finding some good compromises. I'm familiar with sprite color limits but I've never worked under a shared color limit however its interesting in the results I get.

I tried MINIPAINT through Vice since I don't have means to transfer the program onto my VIC yet. Under your download page do you think you could add a Help text file with the controls listed as I'm kind of poking keys to find functions and I want to load the PRG file but I don't know how?

I guess there isn't a mouse for the VIC as far as what I read here? I have done joystick drawing on my C64 so its not completely foreign to me. :)
http://sleepingelephant.com/ipw-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=4626&sid=87ecec713b47d3affcb4e1dc40454d56

28
Pixel Art / Minecraft type game/Atari 2600 shading concept.
« on: May 16, 2012, 11:31:51 pm »
Hello I've been trying many ways to get more traditional lighting and shading into 2600 graphics or to be more specific the hot and cold contrast between foreground to background. Usually in 2600 games there is no background making the visual difference between solids and BG details moot.
I had considered mixing objects to get shading colors but there are so few and precious sprites or bits on the 2600 and other means for more colors per scan line are sparse and costly enough that I would rather save them for more distinct color changes from tile to tile(EG vertical pipe through a floor plane).


Mostly its about vertical line gap distance in the background to create contrast but I'm not sure how good this looks so I'd like to get some impressions and CCs. Grabbed a Game Boy shot of SML3 and tried a translation. I put a couple background line densities of the same BG forms into the mockup for comparison.


Can't say I've formally decided on overall styling yet as in Fantasy, Sci-Fi, Fantasy Sci-Fi lol, or maybe a Steampunk vibe like Dark Cloud has. Definitely leaning to the Chibi or Sackboy standard in physical stature or big noggins, little body to get as much detail and personality into them. Despite the confines of 8 bits wide Player object that I likely can't enhance given the other sprite demands I have been trying to get some variety in body types and gender traits. In the end I may have to emphasize the costume and animation space most and just go with a blank circle for the faces.
My nieces showed some interest in Minecraft but were underwhelmed with the avatar selection being so plain and without any stronger "girly" options in appearance. They also wanted to move the furniture around a lot but things like item chests are a pain to move. :lol:

Back when I started my research I tooled with the idea of a Minecraft type game on the 2600 but I had a lot of false starts since I knew next to nothing about the hardware, even now there are dark spots in understanding it.
I might go up an Atari hardware generation to the 5200/400 range since its less stressful from a hair splitting standpoint but I can't help but think that I'd miss out on an opportunity at defining a good 2600 standard sooner rather than later. Still if I had the increase in sprite objects found on the 5200 I'd know exactly where to use them to enhance the graphics.

The primary issue is getting shading out of one color as I likely can't invoke much in the way of color changes per scanline as I have a lot of sprite related overhead for NPCs. This is also true with the sprites as well with color variety which I have tried a couple styles of dither on them in my attempt at two distinct lighting states to reflect the shading more correctly than is possible with just a palette swap.

Gross lighting system uses the Background layer and it will likely palette shift a day to night change plus the lower half darkens based on density of ground material IE. a solid line of material across the entire screen width equals blackness below it. Hopefully I can finagle a sun & moon block into the background with a mid-line color change and make it go up and down.


Well here's my first actual post, I hope it looks like a good one. :)

29
General Discussion / Re: Commodore VIC-20 Pixel Art Guide.
« on: May 15, 2012, 11:12:55 pm »
Quote from: BladeJunker
Do you think the 3:2 pixel unit is a fairly accurate representation of a VIC-20 display, it was as close as I could get for a hardware external concept canvas?
It's about right for NTSC. On a PAL VIC-20, the pixels are slightly more elongated, 5:3 was the best approximation I could find as ratio of small integers. The 'standard' setting of VICE, 2:1, is totally off.
That's what I thought too that 2:1 was just not reflecting what I was seeing on an actual VIC-20. I'll make some adjustments to my PAL canvases to 5:3, I'm not in a PAL region so I couldn't even guess at shape accuracy, although at AtariAge one helpful person did mention a shorter pixel height and another mentioned the Denial forum as the best place to ask.

Quote
One other point about the palette in your mock-up of the Colour Test program: Light Red is too dark, it should have a similar brightness as its upper neighbour, Light Orange. On an NTSC VIC-20, Light Orange, Light Red and Light Purple are quite difficult to tell from each other, on a PAL VIC-20 they are easier differentiated.

These are two exemplary palettes we came up with after a longer discussion in Denial:

-- NTSC (darkatx's VIC-20) ------- PAL (tokra's VC-20) ----


I used digital camera shots from CRTs with the VIC-20 running the Colour Test program. Then I took the averages of all RGB values of the bigger colour patches in the middle of the display, and finally stretched the result for maximum contrast. In both cases, only little to no clipping of RGB values occured in the end result - the saturation setting of the monitor/camera combination was just about right.

Of course, the viewers output device will also lead to a different result again, but that's the way it is. ;)
Yeah I have not been happy with the color palette I found through Wikipedia at all, so thank you for this post of colors that are much, much closer to the real thing. Been meaning to sign up with Denial and ask around but I've been catch up with other things. Perhaps the Wiki source tried to average the 2 palettes out to one inaccurate result?  :-\

Looks like PAL users got the better color palette, nicer saturation and separation of colors. This reminds me of 2600 PAL to NTSC color differences as this will require color conversion for graphics as a simple swap won't cut it for most graphics. Damn I really like the PAL version, I keep gravitating towards it and want to use it despite being in a NTSC region. :lol:

Oh sure the display used will effect the look of the colors and any settings it offers but this palette is much closer and is exactly what I was looking for.

Thanks again for your input as I want to get this guide as accurate as possible.  Well I guess I'll get started making adjustments. :)

30
General Discussion / Re: Commodore VIC-20 Pixel Art Guide.
« on: May 15, 2012, 12:08:25 am »
Hi, BladeJunker,

Quote from: BladeJunker
Speaking of ANSI mode it doesn't appear to have any color restrictions as all colors can be displayed at once.

This is based on a color test program I came across on the Denial VIC-20 forum a guy named Mike made to test his S-video mod. Despite that not all combinations are supported in the 2 graphic modes you can see the ones that do in this chart.
http://sleepingelephant.com/ipw-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=5164

I wrote this program, so I thought I'd should comment on this a bit:

Regardless whether the VIC chip fetches pixel data from the built-in character ROM, or from user defined graphics in RAM, there's - in principle - only one background colour. The display is tiled in 8x8 or 8x16 'attribute cells' which can have one of 8 different foreground colours, and can be switched between high-res and multi-colour mode. The latter mode combines two bits horizontally to twice-wide pixels in either background (%00), exterior border (%01), foreground (%10) or auxiliary colour (%11) to form 4x8 or 4x16 pixel tiles. The exterior border colour can be chosen from the first 8 colours (like the foreground colour), while for the auxiliary colour all 16 colours are available (like for the background colour).

For the test program above, the different background colours in each line were achieved by changing the background register with the raster beam. This can be done by polling the raster line counter register and/or synchronizing a timer to the VIC chip. Thus, this is a software-assisted 'mode', even if it only displays pixel data from the character ROM.

Another restriction of the VIC chip is, that it only can access the character ROM, and the built-in RAM (5K)! 1K of the RAM is used for the system. In search for a bitmapped graphics mode, which does not use that 1K system area (but rather contents itself with the remaining other 4K RAM), and which also does not use interrupts, I came up with a 160x192 resolution. That one is built from 20x12 attribute cell tiles, each with 8x16 (high-res) or 4x16 (multi-colour) pixels, each one again with a different foreground colour. Background, exterior border and auxiliary colour are global.

I wrote a pixel-oriented editor for this resolution, MINIPAINT, which I published in 2009 on Denial VIC-20. It is hosted on the VIC-20 itself (runs fine under VICE) and produces picture files, that are actually executable programs. Furthermore, it is backed up by a BASIC extension, so the pictures can easily be loaded and used (and even changed!) in own programs. Saehn pixeled the title screen of 'Realms of Quest 3' with MINIPAINT.

With interrupts, cycle exact coding and the CPU shuffling bitmap data around in RAM the restrictions mentioned above can be lifted A LOT (say, 208x256 pixels resolution and/or 8x1 or 4x1 attribute cells), but these enhancements come at the expense of nearly monopolising the CPU to assist the VIC chip for display, so their use is limited to still images.

Greetings,

Michael

P.S.: This is my first post on wayofthepixel.net, so please bear with me. :)

First thanks so much for dropping by as I am not a technically oriented person so it is always great when someone with real expertise can comment, I try my best but these retro machines are hard to figure out. ;D

I see what you're saying about your program, I should have noticed the use of varying background color per line so I'll make that correction and clarify how this is actually displayed.

Its a shame I'm not knowledgeable enough to describe the performance levels of the VIC-20 as I've only been able to explain the basics while the expansion with RAM carts is a grey area as far as my understanding. Other than more RAM equals more stuff you can do that's all I can say on the matter. :lol:
I've only mentioned the room for expanding graphics in a minor way so far but I'll emphasize the CPU costs more and the context of still imagery as opposed to game graphics too.

MINIPAINT looks cool and I can't wait to try it out. Neat to hear Saehn has used it since it was hard to find much VIC-20 pixel art reference from a post modern perspective, the C64 and Nes have received much in the way of artistic technique improvement over these many years past there "suggested" lifespan but the VIC to a far lesser extent.
I'm enjoying my journey into the VIC graphics standard quite a bit compared to the Atari 2600 which is a really hard system to tackle from an art standpoint but I keep trying.

Thanks again for your input as your my first response on the matter. The VIC-20 is about as old as I am so I'm a late collector of it but it interested me a great deal being the precursor of the C64. I'm not too sure about the average age of Pixelation members as I think most of them grew up on Nes/Snes/C64/ZX Spectrum wares but I know they like a good challenge so I thought the VIC would be a good subject for a pixel art restriction guide.

Do you think the 3:2 pixel unit is a fairly accurate representation of a VIC-20 display, it was as close as I could get for a hardware external concept canvas?

Greetings to you as well. :)

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