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Messages - Piotr
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61
General Discussion / Re: What is best 256 color palette?
« on: October 01, 2015, 02:50:10 pm »
I'd generally suggest that best (most accurate summarization of original colors) reduction performance is achieved with a perceptually-tuned colorspace like LAB. And I must point out that having all luminance information in one channel is a goal it achieves. Not perfectly IMO, but noticably better than YCbCr or YIQ, which was an earlier and simpler technology.

However, if you are generating colorcubes, as your comment about 'equally spaced values' suggests, this is a completely different situation from reducing colors, and I'll stand by my comment of HUSL being the best in this case (combines the merits of LAB and HSL).
I said equally spaced values. Equally spaced means there is equal difference in each consecutive values of one component. For example, in 0, 128, 255, the 128 is closer to 0 due to gamma correction, and can be increased.

62
General Discussion / Re: What is best 256 color palette?
« on: September 30, 2015, 03:56:19 pm »
I've tried it. My results with K-means clustering of LAB or LCH colorspaces were 'best', but still not all that satisfactory.

Currently, HUSL seems like the best colorspace for attempting to programmatically derive a palette from. HSY is simpler but also less well optimized (in terms of maximizing difference between colors), though it is better than HSL.

I've tried YIQ and YCbCr, IMO they are better than RGB but otherwise fairly unremarkable.

I recommend entirely ignoring HSV: it is possibly the worst colorspace I've encountered in terms of providing meaningful measures of difference between colors.

Finally, if you're going to do what Gil suggests, keep in mind the algorithm you use for reduction. Most palette reducers use some kind of median cut, which generally reduces contrast by minimizing extreme values, so consider increasing contrast before reduction, to compensate.
It's more important to provide equally spaced components, because it's possible to increase number of values for one component and reduce it for others. 6-8-5 values in RGB with gamma correction is good. I said YIQ may be best because it's better for reducing values. YCbCr, for example, includes all luminance information in one component, allowing for reduction of other components. In RGB, every component has varying degrees of luminance information, making using reduction giving more loss in palette. Still, green includes most luminance information.

63
General Discussion / Best palettes (any size)
« on: September 28, 2015, 09:34:20 am »
Start with 2 colors, then add a color repeatedly in a best way. This is not a question, just post your own results.
My first attempt:

Also (optionally) say the purpose/bias of your selection. This selection fills most gamut in smaller sizes, if dithering is used. Also, final 16 colors are similar to ZX spectrum, except that here dark colors use 170, there is CGA distinctive brown and duplicate black is replaced by orange. The reason why CMY colors are before RGB is that they seemed more useful in 2~4 color palettes.

64
General Discussion / Re: Pixel art portraits for $1.00 !!!
« on: September 08, 2015, 05:40:20 am »
I respect that you're doing portraits at such a small size.
But consider the target market and where you're advertising: are you going to sell $1 pixel portraits, to pixel artists?
Second, by requiring an iOS app you restrict your market to mobile apple users only.
Finally, downloading an app is an unfamiliar barrier, where people are even less likely to trust you than if you just set up some sort of paypal system.


I agree. It would be better if it was available to android, windows, linux or mac users, not only mobile apple.
Also, it's probably not worth 1$ to have pixel art. In windows, linux and mac, just open paint. For android, download this: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.spc.app.pixelarteditor
Now you can make pixel art.

65
General Discussion / Re: What is best 256 color palette?
« on: September 05, 2015, 09:09:57 am »
Define "Best".
Go to school! I need people to know how many grays, how much extent these colors are needed, etc. and you don't know what is even best for general use!!!
School won't help you define what palette is 'best'.
He doesn't know about what is anything best. Not only palettes. He just doesn't know meaning of word "best" itself. For DawnBringer, here you go: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Best&defid=5047406 (use definition 1)

66
General Discussion / Re: What is best 256 color palette?
« on: September 04, 2015, 07:14:13 pm »
Define "Best".
Go to school! I need people to know how many grays, how much extent these colors are needed, etc. and you don't know what is even best for general use!!!

67
General Discussion / Re: What is best 256 color palette?
« on: September 03, 2015, 04:49:29 pm »
I've tried YIQ and YCbCr, IMO they are better than RGB but otherwise fairly unremarkable.
My reason for using YIQ rather than YUV or YCbCr is that bounds of YIQ mean that eye is less sensitive to Q than I, so it's compressed more which allows to increase overall. For YUV, U and V would require about same values as Y to achieve similar color fidelity (same for YCbCr).

68
General Discussion / Re: What is best 256 color palette?
« on: September 02, 2015, 03:34:51 pm »
If there was a best one, there would be no reason to use any other palette, right ?

In general, if you're striving to "compute" a versatile palette, you should rather try split the HSV / HSL spaces than the RGB cube. There are some very large areas of these cubes where you don't need a lot of detail, but they are more easy to describe/define/compute according to HSL : Ex. "the more saturation increases, the more hue is important" and "as the color approaches maximum and minimum lightness, hue and saturation become irrelevant"


I know about using HSL/HSV spaces instead. Anyway, thanks for a hint!

Quote from: Piotr
* Level combination: each of 4-16-4, 8-8-4, 6-6-6, 6-7-6, 6-8-5, 7-7-5, 5-9-5 and others for RGB are accepted.
* As above, but for hue, saturation, value/light. NES tried this.

YIQ color space may give best results.

69
General Discussion / Re: What is best 256 color palette?
« on: September 02, 2015, 11:20:53 am »
I've tried several algorithms to populate a palette, and there's no universally perfect way.  Evenly distributed RGB over 256 colours can make some things look pretty good and other things ugly.  It depends what it's for.  If you can't predict it's use like you were building a games system, then, yeah, you'd probably generate something that covers the RGB combination range in as many steps as you can based on palette size.

Then there's hand-picking colours and maybe adding them as needed.

The old default VGA palette was based on being organised rather than universal...

Or.. if it's for a game... something I've done a few times to reduce filesizes... make the art largely in 24bit without colour constraints, put all the artwork in one image canvas and reduce the colours to 8 bit / 256 colours, and see what you have.  That's just technical, though.  It doesn't really answer your question of a single perfect palette.  ;/  If you really must work with 256 colours for some reason but want freedom of design, that's probably the way.
It does not matter it looks ugly in some objects. I just want to know the best one, not actually doing art (if art, then only for testing the palette)

70
General Discussion / What is best 256 color palette?
« on: September 01, 2015, 02:54:55 pm »
I want to know what is best 256-color palette. Not all entries have to be occupied.
I know these:
* Subset of 10-10-10 level RGB (1000 colors). First 125 colors are combinations of 5 levels of RGB each with LSB off. Next 125 are same, but with LSB on. For total of 250 colors, 6 remain.
* Subset of 16-16-16 level RGB (4096 colors). The format is IIRRGGBB: R, G and B are two most significant bits of each component, while I sets 2 LSBs of each component.
* Another IIRRGGBB format palette, but I sets color brightness to 25, 50, 75 or 100 percent of original. There is more fidelity in darker colors, but there is some redundancy: blacks, and 66% red with 50% brightness is same as 33% red with 100% brightness.
* 256-level grayscale for full brightness fidelity but no color/saturation fidelity at all. Variant: 128-level grayscale and fill remaining 128 colors to compensate for human's limited vision (human sees 21-bit RGB, not 24-bit).
* Level combination: each of 4-16-4, 8-8-4, 6-6-6, 6-7-6, 6-8-5, 7-7-5, 5-9-5, 5-10-5 and others for RGB are accepted.
* As above, but for hue, saturation, value/light. NES tried this.
* 2 bits for red/blue, 3 bits for green. Other bit is LSB of red and blue.
* Make four cubes of 64 colors, where there are 4 RGB levels in each cube chosen from 8 levels. Example: 0-2-5-7, 0-1-2-3, 2-3-4-5, 4-5-6-7. Configurator link: http://drag.wootest.net/misc/8bit_rgb.html
* To reduce large RGB bit-based palette by 2 bits, merge LSB of red, green and blue to one bit, as long as they all exist. If there are only two normal components with their own bits, you can only merge them to compress by 1 bit. This preserves all grays of palette (only if there are equal bits of each component), but reduces hue/saturation fidelity.

Here are samples for some of them:
Uniform HSV selection: There are 15 hues, 2 saturations, 9 values in full saturation, 7 values in half saturation, 17 grays and some transparency.

Uniform RGB selection: There are 4 bits for each component, where 2 least significant bits are shared between components. As a result, there are 2 bits for each component and 2 least significant bits shared between components. There are 18 hues, 2 saturations and 16 values. Best case precision is 12 bits, while worst case precision is 6 bits.
Format: RRGGBBSS
In other words, it's 4 RGB cubes, where each RGB component can be any of following values:
  • 0, 68, 136, 204
  • 17, 85, 153, 221
  • 34, 102, 170, 238
  • 51, 119, 187, 255
Example: 255, 119, 51 (orange)

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