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Messages - Piotr
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21
General Discussion / Re: Make your own ellipses (pixel art)
« on: January 11, 2017, 03:45:54 pm »

Yes, I am. But how did I already get the answer?

You were said that it depends wholly on the context. Basically, taking look at ellipses on their own is a pointless exercise.
It depends on person opinion not on context.

22
General Discussion / Re: What is best 256 color palette?
« on: January 10, 2017, 05:14:22 pm »
If I interpret your question correctly, you want to know which 256 colors to pick to a palette to make things look good. This is called the black magic art of color reduction. There's plenty of ways to perform it, some work better than others, and all of them are wrong, as what you're doing is removing information. One common way is to place all desired colors into an octree and then reading out the 256 biggest cells; another is to do median-cut of the color space until you have 256 segments.
But how can I get an image to reduce colors? Making art with no palette or color restrictions is harder than making art and picking the colors of art from the best 256 color palette or 16 or 4 or 2.

On topic: I'm pretty sure this is best palette:

Organized version:

Though the ramps in the first one look like 10 colors, they can be combined with 6 color ramps in websafes to create 16. A ramp from none to full of n values actually has fractions of n-1, so the full 16-color ramps (0/15 to 15/15) contain 6-color websafe ramps (0/5 to 5/5) and so does the full 4096 color palette (16x16x16) I decided to base this palette on instead of 512 (8x8x8) color palette.

23
General Discussion / Re: Make your own ellipses (pixel art)
« on: January 10, 2017, 06:30:22 am »
We understand that there can be different kinds of ways to draw an ellipse in pixel-art, but the point is that there is not real point to this. It's not an exercise that's interesting, nor is it something that will improve your skills.

You have pointed out what we should do, but not why. You're curious about how people approach ellipses? You already got your answer, why do you want us to draw multiple ellipses?
Yes, I am. But how did I already get the answer?

24
General Discussion / Re: Make your own ellipses (pixel art)
« on: January 10, 2017, 06:29:08 am »
If you are unsure how to draw an ellipse and don't much trust your editor (GraphicsGale had a buggy ellipse (might still do), Pro Motion can't draw an even dimension ellipse, still need to trust editor enough to draw the high-res ellipse) try something like this: http://img.uninhabitant.com/ellipse_sampling.png
If the centre sampling point falls within the high-res ellipse fill that pixel.
Paint.net does exactly what you described, but this editor is bad and won't replace Paint. I want to see your ellipses, how you draw them. Not help. It's for fun, not help.

25
General Discussion / Re: Make your own ellipses (pixel art)
« on: January 09, 2017, 08:00:49 pm »
But how am I supposed to know which ones you prefer? Make a picture like the first 2 posts and stop discussing. I just want to know how will you draw general ellipses of the desired size. End. Dot.
Images not supported in quotes

The reason we're discussing is because we are confused by this, it feels like a weird thing to be fixating on when there are better avenues for improvement and the goal is still somewhat unclear. Are you trying to figure out anti-aliasing? are you trying to see how other people approach... a basic shape?
There's only going to be maybe three or four highly-situational ways to do what you've described here, and doing it serves no real purpose except as an incredibly basic practice gesture that would likely be better spent just doing a whole drawing.
It's confusing.
Like eishiya said, it's the context of the shape you work from.
That's not a basic shape, it's a square-root based shape. Also the picture below shows various pictures of different fake "users" making circles from 1x1 to 6x6, which is what I would like to see from users if it was just circles 1x1 to 6x6:

Image 1 and image 2 were made by one user, but in one post. Image 3 was made by another user who prefers circles with less pixels. Image 4 was made by some person who likes anti-aliasing. Image 5 was the same idea as Image 3 - that's valid. Copying it is also valid. Image 6 was made by person who cares about area and not symmetry. So I suggest you to make an image like the one of beginning to check which type of circle you like.

Look at this image:

Your task is, in the places of my ellipses, draw your ellipses instead, and use your own title in place of my one.

26
General Discussion / Re: Make your own ellipses (pixel art)
« on: January 09, 2017, 02:12:15 pm »
That's the point, but there are MANY such points:
There really aren't.
But how am I supposed to know which ones you prefer? Make a picture like the first 2 posts and stop discussing. I just want to know how will you draw general ellipses of the desired size. End. Dot.

27
General Discussion / Re: Make your own ellipses (pixel art)
« on: January 08, 2017, 08:29:00 pm »
The only subjectivity in rasterizing a solid ellipse is whether to include or exclude an incident sampling point.
That's the point, but there are MANY such points:

Not to mention the ellipses too. Paint also uses assymetrical shapes for 13x13 and 14x14. So I want to know what you prefer by drawing the 144 ellipses from 1x1 to 12x12.

28
General Discussion / Re: Make your own ellipses (pixel art)
« on: January 08, 2017, 06:28:43 pm »
Please refrain from creating multiple accounts, one is more than enough. Also, what is the purpose of this "activity"?
Drawing ellipses, choosing the ones that seem the best to you.
Example of things that I want to see an opinion of:
Code: [Select]

 #     ###
### or ### ?
 #     ###
So that I can see which option will people choose, but in all 144 ellipses too.

29
General Discussion / Re: What is best 256 color palette?
« on: January 08, 2017, 04:43:19 pm »
Okay, that clarifies things a little.

I have to ask though, how do you expect to use these palettes on ZX Spectrum, etc, given that most of the colors in them are not available on that display hardware?
The images are quantized only to colors possible to display.
Also the saving format in any picture is binary. So there is no clear way of storing 10-color picture while taking less space than 16-color one. You need things like storing 3 pixels in 10 bits. Here are the sizes of raw pictures the size of 320*200 with various palette storage systems (excluding size and indexed color info, KB is 1000 B, KiB is 1024 B):
2 color:
8 KB, 7.8125 KiB
3 color (5 pixels in 8 bits):
12.8 KB, 12.5 KiB
4 color:
16 KB, 15.625 KiB
5 color (3 pixels in 7 bits):
18.66725 KB, 18.229736328125 KiB (64000 pixels are not divisible by 3, so it's a bit more than 18.66666... KB)
6 color (5 pixels in 13 bits):
20.8 KB, 20.3125 KiB
8 color:
24 KB, 23.4375 KiB
However for older machines/video cards like ZX Spectrum, GameBoy or CGA, tricks like storing 5 pixels in a byte for 3 colors are either slow (using mod operations) or consume system memory (if you define what each byte means, for example 7F byte may be defined as black, yellow, yellow, cyan, black). That's why it's better to use powers of 2 for number of colors in storage. Go to newer machines/video cards and you'll find out that you have 16777216 colors already. 320x200, 640x200 (with tall 1x2 pixels that can resemble 640x400 by using stretched 8x8 fonts in place of 8x16), 640x400, 1280x800, ... are the resolutions that provide maximum size with binary video memory sizes and palettes with 2^(2^n) colors (2, 4, 16, 256, 65536, 4294967296, ...) while 320x256, 640x256, 640x512, 1280x1024, ... merit palettes with 2^(3*(2^n)) colors instead (8, 64, 4096, 16777216, ...). 640x480 and 1024x768 don't have this property.

30
General Discussion / Re: What is best 256 color palette?
« on: January 08, 2017, 03:53:33 pm »

EDIT: Link to zipfile. Contains GPL (GIMP/Inkscape/Mypaint/etc), PNG, and SOC(OpenOffice/LibreOffice) versions of each palette.

Also an Imgur gallery for quick preview
First serious help! But please force both pure white and black and reduce potential of NES palette problem (lack of good saturated red/yellow/green/cyan/blue/magenta).
That's actually a problem inherent to both K-means and median-cut reduction methods, which the added contrast was intended to counteract.
However, if you want exact black, you can just replace the darkest color with black, same as I did with white.

I didn't really care about -extremely- saturated colors when making these, though.
NES palette contained extremely saturated colors, but it didn't contain the right hues for red/yellow/green/cyan/blue/magenta. This is the problem I was talking about. You don't care about extremely saturated colors, but I care: Include all 8 basic colors to cover the corners of RGB cube.

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