AuthorTopic: Batman - Clayface (Need help with AA)[WIP] [C+C]  (Read 9799 times)

Offline HarveyDentMustDie

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Batman - Clayface (Need help with AA)[WIP] [C+C]

on: March 09, 2013, 04:10:55 pm
Hi guys. This is Matthew Hagen a.k.a Clayface from Batman the Animated Series.
Animation is there but it's still need some cleaning, and polishing. Every comment is welcome.  :)



[Edit]
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 08:08:03 pm by HarveyDentMustDie »

Offline HarveyDentMustDie

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Re: Batman - Clayface [Animated][WIP] [C+C]

Reply #1 on: March 11, 2013, 01:19:08 am
Here is the new version, but I'm still not sure is animation quite right.

Offline jams0988

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Re: Batman - Clayface [Animated][WIP] [C+C]

Reply #2 on: March 11, 2013, 06:56:21 am
The animation is nice, definitely, but his breathing pattern makes it look like he's holding his breath. The way he brings his arms closer in when he inhales adds to that effect. I like how all the folds on him actually move when he breaths, though. The extra work shows! =)
And his facial morphing animations are nifty.

Offline HarveyDentMustDie

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Re: Batman - Clayface [Animated][WIP] [C+C]

Reply #3 on: March 11, 2013, 01:15:02 pm
Thank you. You are absolutely right. I knew that there is something wrong with breathing, but I couldn't find what is it. I'll try to redraw the hand movement.  :)

EDIT:
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 03:49:37 pm by HarveyDentMustDie »

Offline Ymedron

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Re: Batman - Clayface [Animated][WIP] [C+C]

Reply #4 on: March 11, 2013, 06:05:04 pm
Hmm, another thing would be to make the breathing not in sync with the head switches, it makes it feel kinda... Weird?
The arms extending don't really help the holding breath feel either, I think making the breathing shallower and more common with the original hand movement would make it look convincing?
Also my art tumblr: ymedronart.tumblr.com

Offline HarveyDentMustDie

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Re: Batman - Clayface [Animated][WIP] [C+C]

Reply #5 on: March 11, 2013, 08:54:47 pm
Thank you for your comment.  :)

In the second version animation wasn't in sync, and I was planing to return to that. I agree, this way it really feels weird. This "breathing" animation turn out to be my biggest problem here. I've lose to much time on it, and still can make it right.

PS What do you mean by "original hand movement"? Movement in earlier versions?

Offline jams0988

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Re: Batman - Clayface [Animated][WIP] [C+C]

Reply #6 on: March 12, 2013, 05:10:04 am
I still think the pause is a bit too long between breaths. When I breath naturally, there's really no pause; I'm either inhaling or exhaling. Even though you made the pause between breaths much shorter, it's still there, hence he still looks like he's holding his breath a bit.

Quick edit, just deleting all the extra frames you had around your fantastic animated bits. =)
Of course, now he looks like he's breathing a bit too quickly (maybe he saw batman, and now he's all flustered?), but you can fix that easily enough by slowing down the animation, and maybe doubling the frames towards the beginning and end of his breathing cycle, to give the feeling that he's slowing down towards the end of his inhales and towards the end of his exhales.

The last edit was a big step in the right direction, though. He's looking really cool!
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 05:13:48 am by jams0988 »

Offline HarveyDentMustDie

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Re: Batman - Clayface [Animated][WIP] [C+C]

Reply #7 on: March 12, 2013, 12:18:15 pm
Thanks. I'm starting to hate this animation, just because of this "breathing". :'( The most funny thing is that Clayface doesn't breathe, or even have lungs... :crazy:
Anyway, here is the new Breathing animation, I hope it's better.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 03:14:47 pm by HarveyDentMustDie »

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Re: Batman - Clayface [Animated][WIP] [C+C]

Reply #8 on: March 12, 2013, 07:48:41 pm
I meant the hands moving in closer to the body with the original hand movement. <:D Sorry, I wasn't very clear about it.

That breathing looks a lot better already! There is still a pause that makes him look like he's holding his breath or perhaps trying to look intimidating by puffing his chest up.
Also my art tumblr: ymedronart.tumblr.com

Offline HarveyDentMustDie

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Re: Batman - Clayface [Animated][WIP] [C+C]

Reply #9 on: March 13, 2013, 12:13:30 am
This thing is pissing me off.  >:( It's not even fun, as it was. I made head animation in maybe 2h or less, but this breathing is hell. Here are two versions side by side. What do you guys think, which is better? ???
 
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 12:16:21 am by HarveyDentMustDie »

Offline jams0988

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Re: Batman - Clayface [Animated][WIP] [C+C]

Reply #10 on: March 13, 2013, 01:23:29 am
Breath along with your animation. When he starts inhaling, inhale along with him. When he freezes, freeze with him. When he exhales, exhale with him. Make sure your timing matches perfectly with his. Doesn't it hurt your chest?

Now breath naturally, and pay close attention to how long each breath takes, how fast you breath, how long you take between breaths, and everything else. Trace the arc of your breath with your finger if it helps. Make a graph in the air with your finger to help with your timing. Steadily move your hand to the right, without changing speed. This represents time. Move your finger up when your exhale, down when you inhale. Break it down slowly.

Act out your animation in front of a mirror. Pretend to be a huge badass who's about to cause some trouble. Hunch over a bit. Flex your muscles. Breath in deeply and calmly, confident that you're going to win your fight. Stare yourself down in the mirror. Breath audibly, like a clay monster. Again, pay attention to the timing of your breath, and to your posture. Live your character, so that you can just copy yourself. Pay attention to what your arms and chest and such are doing. Don't draw again until you've consciously decided what your timing is going to be, and what your character is going to be doing. If you can't decide *what* you want him to do or *how* you want him to do it, drawing isn't going to help you.

Do whatever you need to do to realize the timing of your animation. I'd suggest reading the Animator's Survival Kit, if you haven't already. It'll help you a lot, I think. Fantastic book.

And try to have fun when you draw. You're drawing to learn right now, right? And you're definitely learning, even if it doesn't feel like it. Judging by your artwork, you've already been drawing long enough to know that, though. Keep at it! =)

Edit: Tapping along like a metronome also helps. Breathing in takes on beat, as does breathing out. Then there are two beats of rest. Depending how fast your tap, of course! It could be two beats of of breathing in, two out, then four not breathing at all. Or one beat for the whole breathing segment, then one just resting. The point is, whenever he takes a breath, and then exhales, he waits the same amount of time before taking another breath. Like I said earlier, try breathing along with him like that. If you're out of shape like me, you'll probably become lightheaded, for want of oxygen! ;)

The timing is so important in animation! Right now you have a 1:1:2 ratio going on for inhaling:exhaling:resting. Do your acting, and find the natural ratio! And then speed the whole animation up or down, and see how it works. Good luck!
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 01:44:18 am by jams0988 »

Offline HarveyDentMustDie

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Re: Batman - Clayface [Animated][WIP] [C+C]

Reply #11 on: March 13, 2013, 01:35:15 am
I've tried that, but every time I'm concentrating on breathing, ironically, it stops to be "natural".  :)
First versions were based on my thinking how breathing should look like, but it wasn't good enough. I will make it work... eventually...  ;D

Thank you so much for yours suggestions. I'll read the book, I'm sure it will be helpful.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 02:10:50 pm by HarveyDentMustDie »

Offline HarveyDentMustDie

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Re: Batman - Clayface [Animated][WIP] [C+C]

Reply #12 on: March 13, 2013, 02:25:14 pm
I know what's wrong with this animation. Inhaling and exhaling last much longer (btw inhaling is a little quicker). Problem is, if I add more time to each frame to mach breathing time, it will look like there is some lag in the animation. Simple time adjusting will not make it look natural. That means that I need to add more frames, and each frame should be slightly different. Problem is, I can move up or down for least one pixel, which will (at this resolution) produce to much body movement for simple breathing.  :-\

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Re: Batman - Clayface [Animated][WIP] [C+C]

Reply #13 on: March 13, 2013, 03:40:01 pm
There is a technique that was called something like sub-pixel movement. Basically you keep the silhouette the same, but you move the details/antialias inside the form. You'll need to add that first, of course.

http://2dwillneverdie.com/tutorial/give-your-sprites-depth-with-sub-pixel-animation/
Here is a tutorial on that.
Also my art tumblr: ymedronart.tumblr.com

Offline HarveyDentMustDie

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Re: Batman - Clayface [Animated][WIP] [C+C]

Reply #14 on: March 13, 2013, 03:59:16 pm
Thanks man. Great idea. ;D I just need to figure out how to make this looks good without adding more colors. Challenge accepted. :)

Offline rikfuzz

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Re: Batman - Clayface [Animated][WIP] [C+C]

Reply #15 on: March 13, 2013, 04:00:33 pm
You can spread your movement out this way if you wanted to, since you're using a lot of curved shapes like this:



Offline HarveyDentMustDie

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Re: Batman - Clayface [Animated][WIP] [C+C]

Reply #16 on: March 14, 2013, 12:19:18 am
Thanks, good idea. I was trying something similar in my earlier versions, but obviously unsuccessful.  :(

You guys helped me so much, and last few comments are pure gold. Now I have much clearer picture of what to do, but whether I will succeed... time will tell...  ;)

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Re: Batman - Clayface (Need help with AA) [WIP] [C+C]

Reply #17 on: May 03, 2013, 08:37:11 pm
Hi guys. After a long pause, I've decided to try to make sub pixel animation of breathing, as it was suggested in earlier posts. I think that it would be big step forward for me if I succeed. :)

I started adding AA to his body (it's still in progress) and I add few more colors. I'm not very experienced in this, but I know all the basics and I read a lot of tutorials on this topic. I would like to get some feedback, and if someone have advices about sub pixel animation that would be great.  ;D

edit:
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 12:16:41 am by HarveyDentMustDie »

Offline YellowLime

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Re: Batman - Clayface (Need help with AA)[WIP] [C+C]

Reply #18 on: May 09, 2013, 06:30:44 pm
Looks better, but doing this to every single frame might prove a daunting task :lol:

Offline HarveyDentMustDie

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Re: Batman - Clayface (Need help with AA)[WIP] [C+C]

Reply #19 on: May 10, 2013, 07:24:37 pm
I'm thinking to change the main concept of this animation. He will transform whole body instead of just head. Just one transformation -> into "the granny" and back to Clayface. This way I will add a little humor to it. I'm currently busy (again  :(), but here is the preview of current version of "grandma". Every comment is welcomed.