A Rock with edit, and a newer edit

[Rydin]

You know the drill; 100x100, 5 colors. I think the dark green and the dark grey could be merged and i could add another color somewhere, what do you think?

I have one major problem with it: why does the shading make me want to puke?  I'm happy with the highlights, but it just does not have any depth :S

Also, was trying something a more uniform dithering than I normally do, what do you think?

[flaber]

personally i dont much care for it
i made this along time ago for someone else, but it might help you too


id suggest first figuring out exactly the forms of your rock - picking out which lines are edges, and which lines are corners. corner lines are darker, while edges are highlights
throw on your base colours
establish your shadows and highlights
colour your rock to look either plastic or metally
use dithering as a technique to add texture and roughness, opposed to a technique of blending colours
then play around with it abit

your rock is too soft..
use more block colours, instead of dithering over 1 base colour to create highlights and shadow
each shade should become a block colour and then use dithering only to blend slightly and to add texture

thats some quick crit from me
hopefully that image may be useful

[Dusty]

Well there's a few problems I spot. I agree with flaber, WAY too soft for a rock. Lay off the dithering so much to fix that. And ya, you have to make a nice form for the rock, or it will come out looking like a blob. Use jagged forms of shading to shape the rocks, then dither to give it a nice texture. Here's a really quick crap edit I did, but it should explain it some:

[Rydin]

Okay here's the edited version:




got rid of the darkest green and traded it for a highlight color. does it look more "hard" now?

[Overkill]

I like where you're going with this Rydin, but the dithering is a little too intense and confuses the artwork when zoomed in. Some dithering is warranted, for sure, in order to make a nice transition between shades whilst limiting colors, but it's still in need of toning down as it's a bit extreme. Probably has to do with the large checkerboard patterns you're using.

[Gil]

what's the use in dithering colours so much that there are no pieces of 100% the same colour anywhere?

[Rydin]

what about black?

[Evil-Ville]

That dithering is ugly, dusty's edit is a lot better in every possible way.

[Darien]

I agree with Gil, I don't see why you dithered so much here.

[Rydin]

  I guess I'm confused... When did dithering become a bad thing?  I'm trying to restrict my color usage, and I feel that one of the best ways to do that is by dithering. My major problem is not the dithering; I couldn't stand the original shading, and now I think its looking better.  I know I asked what you thought about the dithering, but I would rather get some feedback on the depth of the rock.  And anyways shouldn't the amount of dithering iI use be up to me?

This is a work in progress, and I want to change it for the better, but by ripping on my style and by saying other's is better is basically saying that I shouldn't try

[Overkill]

Personally, I thought your latest rock looked fine, but problems were notable at a zoom greater than 1x. On close inspection it quickly reveals that you're in need of some areas where the shades are solid instead of blended with another color. There's no point of using two dithered colors to simply convey one, IF the one shade is rarely drawn in a solid block. Dithering should be used to BLEND, not define colors, otherwise the viewer will notice some annoying artifacts which are only amplified as magnification is applied.

[Xion]

I guess I'm confused... When did dithering become a bad thing?  I'm trying to restrict my color usage, and I feel that one of the best ways to do that is by dithering. My major problem is not the dithering; I couldn't stand the original shading, and now I think its looking better.  I know I asked what you thought about the dithering, but I would rather get some feedback on the depth of the rock.  And anyways shouldn't the amount of dithering iI use be up to me?

This is a work in progress, and I want to change it for the better, but by ripping on my style and by saying other's is better is basically saying that I shouldn't try

The thing is, Rydin, that the dithering affects the depth. Dithering is good for certain uses and bad for others. Good use of dithering is blending two (solid) colors to make a smooth transition, which usually implies a soft or gradually curved object. Rocks, though they may be curved, are not soft, and since you haven't got any solid colors to blend, you'd do better to simply mix the colors you're using to dither into 5 other colors where no dithering is needed.

The dithering is negatively affecting the image in that it's giving the rock an appearence of softness. Also, dithering is used to give things texture, but in this case, the texture is far too patterned and contrasty to look good.

Dusty's edit showed the fact that rocks have hard edges with the hilights, which yours lacks, making them look like lumps of clay.

Dithering is not a bad thing, you just have to know how to use it.

[Faktablad]

I guess I'm confused... When did dithering become a bad thing?  I'm trying to restrict my color usage, and I feel that one of the best ways to do that is by dithering. My major problem is not the dithering; I couldn't stand the original shading, and now I think its looking better.  I know I asked what you thought about the dithering, but I would rather get some feedback on the depth of the rock.  And anyways shouldn't the amount of dithering iI use be up to me?

This is a work in progress, and I want to change it for the better, but by ripping on my style and by saying other's is better is basically saying that I shouldn't try

I'll have to agree with Xion here.  You've got major ditherrhea problems.  Dithering is best used for smooth transitions between two solid colors that are relatively close to one another in shade.  In your piece, you could definitely get away with the limited dithering that Dusty used, because the rock is hard and the canvas is so small that there is not much call for dithering.  You should definitely remove the 75%/25% dithering; That is what I think is hurting the piece the most in terms of texture and form.

Here's the explanation of the lack-of-depth issue that you're having.  To have depth, you need to use a wide range of values from dark to light.  By blending the colors so much, the dark shades and the light shades lose their intensity.  They don't appear as dark and light, they just appear as different shades of the middle gray.  I hope I'm making sense.  In order to give you feedback on the depth of the rock, we have to say what we think about the dithering, because it's what's hurting the piece.  Dithering isn't a bad technique, but like any other technique you have to learn to use it in the right way.

We are not ripping on your so-called "style".  We are saying what we think could be improved on the piece.  We are saying that the amount of dithering you used is unsuitable for a piece that calls for this level of depth and realism.  If you wan't to keep your "style", fine, however I think it is impossible to give you the depth of the rock like you asked and still keep the dithering.

[Rydin]

New to oldest and Dusty's edit

Okay, first off, got rid of my unholy uniform dithering and went for flat shades of each color, then added dithering.  Thought it went to black too fast, and had to stop myself from dithering it lighter to trade it for a dark grey. 

I'm happier about the shades, but now I think that the highlights are shit, especially on the left 'hump'. 

I also feel that somewhere in changing the dithering, the rock's lost its "rough" texture feel, any tip on getting this back?


Although it may not seem it, I'm thankful for all the feedback so far.

[flaber]

so
i made this edit and didnt get a chance to post it before this latest update
ohwell
im going to post it anyways



the first 2 are mine, the last is yours to compare with

what i wanted to show was how to go about making your rock look more rock like, and with some interesting indentations and forms opposed to a basic flatish rock
the first image is to show that i first blocked out how i wanted the forms of the rock to look, the second is a more final version showing abit of dithering and texturing
i chose more complex forms and such just to show how you might go about doing something like that, and to perhaps give ideas
i used only your colours

your new edit - the most recent you have posted looks alot better, and personally i feel is alot better than the black because the contrast becomes to much
amuch better improvement from your last 2.

[Rydin]

flaber, your last edits made me notice that my new one wasn't true to the original lighting, so i went and fixed it; only thing is, i used a full dither color agin

[ptoing]

What you need is more definition imo to show the edges of the stone. Some dither is ok to show roughed up parts but all dither just looks spongey unless the values are rather close.

Quick edit.

[Xion]

Hard edges don't need dithering. And there are other means of getting a rocky texture. (ie. actual texture/pock marks, indents, scratches, and the like.)

[Rydin]

 
This:


Spawned this:








:S

Thanks for the response everybody...
I think mixing all these should be the ticket...working on a new version as we speak.

[Ryumaru]

that second to last one is ace, you did it right?

[Rydin]

That second to last one is by Monsoon2D (extremely sorry btw for not giving respect where due).


Okay, this will probably be my last one. I tried to combine something from each edit, and I'm really happy with the result.

[Gil]

Wow, that one is really nice! Good job!

[Xion]

Much, much, much better.

[Faktablad]

There you go, well done.  Now make sure you examine what makes it better than the first one.  Great job, I love seeing improvement.