[WIP] Help! Helping myself part TWO: SAND Tiles

[mattpk]

I have had about a month of basic- no tutorial spriting. The forum i used to go to had a section on spriting, but there were only about 2-3 people professional like here, so i plan to move here and change.
 
Long ago,
I made my FIRST EVER grass tile:
 

 

Last Last time:


Last time:




Final: (for now)




(i do not want grass tile help now.)

 
FIRST EVER Sand tile:


 

Now:




 

HELP!
 

[JonathanOfDrain]

One thing you should do is tile the tiles together to see if they even fit. You want to make sure that these don't look like actual tiles (unless you do want them to.) and have them connect nicely would probably do the trick. For the most part these don't look too bad, but you can see some problems at the edges.


and



I think the colors are over saturated and may need some hue shifting and more contrast.

[mattpk]

One thing you should do is tile the tiles together to see if they even fit. You want to make sure that these don't look like actual tiles (unless you do want them to.) and have them connect nicely would probably do the trick. For the most part these don't look too bad, but you can see some problems at the edges.


and



I think the colors are over saturated and may need some hue shifting and more contrast.

I don't really agree about the saturated part, (the sand might be too bright though) maybe i should add a bit of brown though to both tiles. I think there is enough contrast, and my image slook weird if the difference between the shades are too bright. I do check if they fit, by the way.

If any of you have examples i can study it'll be appreciated.

[Dusty]

The sand is wwwwway to saturated.

[mattpk]

I am going to re-do the sand. I agree about the saturation on the sand. It was my first try.

[Ichigo Jam]

The brightest colour on the grass seems out of place (this is mostly noticeable with 2x or higher zoom); the second brightest colour is quite a yellowy-green, but the brightest colour is pure, hyper-saturated green. I think it would looks better with a more consistent hue ramp, so the colours are more yellow as they get lighter.
Oh, and probably lower the saturation of the palette in general a little, particularly on the darker colours.
Here's my try at a palette change:

[mattpk]

wow, i can see the difference! Soon after homework (approx 1 hr later) i will re-try a grass and sand tile.

[mattpk]

Hmm...

[mattpk]

Sorry for triple post, but UPDATE

Before:




Now:









Contrast improved, hue ramp improved. Is saturation too high?

[sharprm]

Before you worry about palletes, make it actually look like grass. These shapes suggest palm trees to me, not grass blades. Why are the blades so big?  Look at some game graphics, I think you'll find they just hint at the blades, rather than drawing an outline for each one.

http://www.mobygames.com/game/snes/chrono-trigger/screenshots/gameShotId,65819/ 

[mattpk]

Well, that screen shot almost looks like if the blades have been frshly cut each day, and also randomly pixeled with 3 different shades. I like my grass since it has more of a (jungley) style.

[Jacky-Boy]

I think you can still do a huge amount with that pallette. It's showing progress, but I reckon you need to
make the hue shifts much more obvious, with more blues in the darker regions, and more yellowy highlights.
I'll do an edit if you want me to

[EDIT]

here ya go man, I hope it helps. It's probably too high contrast now for a ground tile, but hey

[mattpk]

I'd have the credit you, but thats a learning opportunity for me to not miss!

go ahead.

[mattpk]

hmm... I agree there is a bit too much contrast, but i'll find a shade of blue that'll fit.

[mattpk]

new

Edit:




Edit:



Even more contrast and hue improvements
I noticed there wasn't enough contrast,
so i made a new version

[sharprm]

Help me help you help yourself with tiles: how are these tiles going to be used? If its for a game then you would want low contrast. You want to be able to see the players, not have them lost due to grass tiles that stand out too much. Random dots is the way I'd do it (unless the game was about ants maybe). Grass blades are small, their size, angle (hence angle light hits it), color are all random. Two more games that do it that way:

http://www.mobygames.com/game/amiga/cannon-fodder/screenshots/gameShotId,41670/

http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/special-forces/screenshots/gameShotId,23365/

Wouldn't jungles have ferns rather than grass. Are you working from a reference?

Learn to make your tiles match up. Draw the tile. Then select all. Paste it four times. First in top left corner so that only the bottom right part is on the image. Then repeat for the other three sections. Clean up in the centre and you will have perfectly tiled tile.

Lastly blue in grass tiles??? Does Adarias even do that?

[Ben2theEdge]

The big problem I see here is that you're trying to communicate way too much with one tile. You are going about drawing the scene the wrong way, starting with a small tile and then building everything else around it. What you need to do is start big and then work your way down to the details. If you want it to look like a jungle, the way to do that is to draw a jungle. Do a rough sketch of the entire scene and then figure out how you can tile it.

This is how it's done professionally - notice how everything works together so well in these tilesets? It's because the artists started with the big picture and then made the tiles according to the restrictions of the system they were working with:
http://sdb.drshnaps.com/images/BGs/SwordOfMana.gif

Now compare that to this, someone who just made a tile and then added some details to it after.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/Silver_Tatl/Final%20Fantasy/22.png

Can you see the difference? The error is in trying to make a single "all purpose" tile, because there is no such thing in real life.

[ptoing]

Those thicker patches of grass in sword of mana look horrible

[mattpk]

This isn't for a a game, but the future grass tiles i make will be for games when i learn more things and get professional,
so




this is okay?

[mattpk]

Someone asked if i am using a reference.

Secret of mana 3



Do you see the grass? same style, but not as good.

It isn't my reference, but i aimed for the same style.

[sharprm]

Thanks for posting the ref, I see what you are trying to do now.
They are still not tiled properly though, please read this thread:

http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=2555.0

[mattpk]

I use a very simple unkown program, i have graphics gale light but i don't know how to use it.

I don't know how to use the feature of preview auto tiling when each pixel is changed.

[sharprm]

I use graphics gale. It has no auto-tiling features, only(?) the pixel program 'pro-motion' has it. Please read the entire thread, there are two methods for tiling discussed.

[mattpk]

I think i got the problem under control!

Old:



New:




can you see any thing that shows this is repetitive? Well, of course you do, but its much better!

[Rydin]

It's too saturated.  If its going to be walked on...you know, in the background, it should probably be a bit less stand-out-y, you know?  See your reference to see what I mean.

[mattpk]

Is this better?

[Dusty]

You should know SD3 uses more than one tile, so they're able to pull off the random look with bigger blades much easier.
Also, while they simply have 'puffs' of thick grass, you're using nothing but thick grass. Your grass doesn't have to look tended to, but yours looks like leaves more than grass. Remember, grass grows up, but if it's too long the blade will collapse on itself and arc downwards, forming like a crescent instead of just grass growing in every direction. I think that's really what you're missing with this.

[mattpk]

I have been thinking of that, but the view i'm using is almost top-down... i'll see if i can change anything.

[Ixis]

Your biggest problem seems to be that you have strongly colored outlines around the blades of grass instead of letting them blend more. Plus they're all pretty flat and expanding from central points. Note how the blades of grass in SD3 are curved and blend together. And very few of them have highlights.

[mattpk]

Those outlines are AA, TO make it blend more. I am working on the grass curving now. i guess the colors are okay now!


Having all highlighted is what i want, in SFOC they use many tiles, which i don't want to achieve, i want a simple grass tile that can be used over before i go into more professional things.

[mattpk]

wah, i tried, but such an extensive edit failed. I guess this is the farthest BASIC thing i can get to.

[Fin] (for now)