Work in progress assorted game sprite animations Yipee!!

[Mike]

After seeing that "The ol' one two " thread I was inspired to put my work up to get critiqued.  I hope I can get as much good info as mozzy.  Well here they are!  A culmination of a few days work.

4 animations to start:  "Attacks are lined up in the order the combo will take place in game"

(I added the shake after I saw the ol' one two thread)

and the jump



I consider the jump and attack1 to be finished but I would still like some critiques on them to make them better. 

[Souly]

The multiple legs are really sticking out for me in the attack1.
I think the hand off the bat is too much really, sure the pose is cool but it makes no sense.
Also your hand is upside down on the weapon, the only way his thumb would be on top would be if the top of his hand was facing us.

I find in Attack2 the knee is really not doing it's job , though it could be that when his foot lands it should already be flat not ball of foot and then flat like you have it.
Also the final raise of the sword his hand placement doesn't make any sense.. His bottom hand isn't attached to his arm.
And the elbow is much too high on his body, it'd be lower you'd see more arm.
I think you need to take a stick and pose in all of these key frames.

I'm trying to pull off said attack combo here, since I'm assuming each animation is to be added to a combo since the start of each one is where the sword was last on the previous one.
And I have to say that second swing after the one handed release just feels wrong like it's coming from too low which is impossible on the wrists...

In Attack3 the shake at the end just isn't doing it for me.
Your feet wouldn't just slide around because of vibration, sure the whole body might contract, but his feet wouldn't move slide like that.

His back foot gets pretty big when it goes back in the jump animation.
Also when he jumps his left arm raises with his left leg, which is wrong.
It should be back at the start much like a walk would be you want the opposite limb to raise.

Hope this wasn't too much of a read, but I don't feel like editing them all to point out what I see wrong.
I do however like your hair flopping.

[tehwexxl0rz]

Hair movement is generally pretty great. Good job in that regard.

Souly raises a lot of good points. Additionally, I'm noticing a lot of detailed slashing effects that interrupt the fluidity when motion blurs could really be utilized effective. Some detail is fine, but it seems you could strike a better balance.

Keep it up!

[Mike]

The multiple legs are really sticking out for me in the attack1.
I think the hand off the bat is too much really, sure the pose is cool but it makes no sense.
Also your hand is upside down on the weapon, the only way his thumb would be on top would be if the top of his hand was facing us.

I find in Attack2 the knee is really not doing it's job , though it could be that when his foot lands it should already be flat not ball of foot and then flat like you have it.
Also the final raise of the sword his hand placement doesn't make any sense.. His bottom hand isn't attached to his arm.
And the elbow is much too high on his body, it'd be lower you'd see more arm.
I think you need to take a stick and pose in all of these key frames.

I'm trying to pull off said attack combo here, since I'm assuming each animation is to be added to a combo since the start of each one is where the sword was last on the previous one.
And I have to say that second swing after the one handed release just feels wrong like it's coming from too low which is impossible on the wrists...

In Attack3 the shake at the end just isn't doing it for me.
Your feet wouldn't just slide around because of vibration, sure the whole body might contract, but his feet wouldn't move slide like that.

His back foot gets pretty big when it goes back in the jump animation.
Also when he jumps his left arm raises with his left leg, which is wrong.
It should be back at the start much like a walk would be you want the opposite limb to raise.

Hope this wasn't too much of a read, but I don't feel like editing them all to point out what I see wrong.
I do however like your hair flopping.

1. Holy hell the hand is upside down!!  That was not supposed to happen.  It won't happen again because I just bought a full body mirror so now I won't have to go to my bathroom mirror.  I normally don't make hand mistakes...I'll fix that right away.

2. Yeah I think you are right about the foot part, I'll make it stay planted firmly on the ground.  Also for the first combo I'll try an edit where both hands are holding onto the bat.  However I will say that when I tried to do the swing sometimes my other hand just naturally let go and it became a one handed swing.

3.  I'll make it so both hands are where they need to be for the second swings start

4.  As for the shake are you saying I should keep the feet planted on the ground and instead move his body left to right a few pixels for a few frames?

5.  I'm not sure what to do about the jump I didn't really have reference for the jump besides myself.

And finally I'm glad you liked the hair movement, I had a hard time with that.

Hair movement is generally pretty great. Good job in that regard.

Souly raises a lot of good points. Additionally, I'm noticing a lot of detailed slashing effects that interrupt the fluidity when motion blurs could really be utilized effective. Some detail is fine, but it seems you could strike a better balance.

Keep it up!

I wanted to have a motion blur with the swing but I'm not really sure of the mechanics that make a motion blur work, So instead I made the ice trail act like a motion blur.  Since I can't do it myself would anyone be able to offer me an edit and maybe a detailed explanation.


Welp I'm gonna work on these edits now and will have an update posted soon.  Thanks for the comments!

[Ben2theEdge]

You are really improving as an animator, Mike!

A motion blur can be described as summary of everything that happened between two frames. It is *not* an object growing in length because of its velocity, rather it is the illusion of several frames of animation blending together because they happen too fast for the "camera" to capture in frames. There is a streaking effect being caused because the sword or hand or foot or whatever it is that's moving is touching each of those points over the course of one frame. It isn't duplicated or leaving a trail - to our eye it looks more like it's stretching.


Excellent use of motion blur on Remy in Street Fighter 3 - study it frame by frame and see why it works!
http://www.zweifuss.com/remy/remy.htm

Also your ice texture needs some work; right now it looks more like scales or feathers than ice, it's an abstract approximation of ice that isn't really grounded in reality.

Here's some real world references:
http://www.edholden.com/images/wallpaper/20070120-012%20-%20Rochester%20-%20Icicles%20on%20Bakerdale%20Road-1.jpg
http://www.kuryosity.net/photography/2000.icicles.jpg

And here's two nice in-game examples from Megaman:
http://www.spriters-resource.com/snes/mmx/sheet/3106
http://www.spriters-resource.com/psx_ps2/mmx4/sheet/1256 (about halfway down the sprite sheet)

[Mike]

You caught me Ben...I had no idea what ice looked like so I just took a dark blue color and just started drawing spikes then I just added 2 shades, 1 for base and 1 for highlights.  You totally nailed me on the abstract part not based on reality.  Funny thing is that is exactly how I thought of it too    Thanks for the references I will check them out post haste.

Oh and Ben is there a way to study motion blurs in real life?  I can move my hand fast enough that I can see the motion blur but it's kinda hard to redraw what I have seen.  Thanks!

Sorry I haven't updated with an edit yet I've been busy with Math homework as well as procrastinating on the math homework.  As soon as I'm done with it I'll get to work

[Ben2theEdge]

Best way to study motion blurs is to pop in a DVD (live acted, not animated) and watch a scene with a lot of fast motion but steady camerawork frame-by-frame. Live action film has a lot more blurring than animation so you'll be able to study it in depth (just don't overdo it when you go to animate!). You'll pick it up in no time.

[allaze-eroler]

You are really improving as an animator, Mike!

A motion blur can be described as summary of everything that happened between two frames. It is *not* an object growing in length because of its velocity, rather it is the illusion of several frames of animation blending together because they happen too fast for the "camera" to capture in frames. There is a streaking effect being caused because the sword or hand or foot or whatever it is that's moving is touching each of those points over the course of one frame. It isn't duplicated or leaving a trail - to our eye it looks more like it's stretching.


Excellent use of motion blur on Remy in Street Fighter 3 - study it frame by frame and see why it works!
http://www.zweifuss.com/remy/remy.htm

Also your ice texture needs some work; right now it looks more like scales or feathers than ice, it's an abstract approximation of ice that isn't really grounded in reality.

Here's some real world references:
http://www.edholden.com/images/wallpaper/20070120-012%20-%20Rochester%20-%20Icicles%20on%20Bakerdale%20Road-1.jpg
http://www.kuryosity.net/photography/2000.icicles.jpg

And here's two nice in-game examples from Megaman:
http://www.spriters-resource.com/snes/mmx/sheet/3106
http://www.spriters-resource.com/psx_ps2/mmx4/sheet/1256 (about halfway down the sprite sheet)

i think you could add this one because it show clearly how the motion work better

http://www.spriters-resource.com/ds/megamanzx/sheet/89

[Jad]

- >

EDIT TIME

Err, if there's one thing that I can't stand in an animation, it's something keeping completely still for several frames. Keeping that in mind I made this edit. First of all, don't be afraid to turn his body around, or obscure his head in any way (although I didn't do that in the later frames, only the wind-up)

Speed is good, I like speed so I added speed. Will help in-game also!

Some twirly snowflakes for chillyness or something, I kinda feel that ice particles should be bright rather than dark, since, well, that's how ice works, right? Snow, etc. Reflections and so on.

I made his bat brighter just because I like readability! If you want structure and texture, make it more subtle, I'd say!


Oh also I think you should reverse the two attack frames, because he has way too much (IMO) wind-up in his first attack, if it's supposed to be his standard attack I'd be annoyed everytime I hit attack and saw that wind-up. Having a kinda slower second attack is okay,though, since that makes more sense game-wise(?), because if you hit with the first attack, the enemy would be stunned, giving you room for the second wind-up, but if you miss, you're more vulnerable during wind-up. See what I mean? Just a suggestion.

tl;dr

Everything should move, make the most of your frames

Fast attacks are good in games

Ice is very dark and blue and flat in shading (in your sprite), try to build up some forms and get some highlight action going on in there (so that it looks more icey)

Generally very good, I love seeing you animate, it's great seeing you progress! Keep it up, guy!

(as usual no polishing has been done, so be sure to kinda look at the general look of my edit, not the details)

[Mike]

Jad I love your edit so much!!  Originally I wanted to turn his body around but I admit I was afraid to do it because with the first attack I had to rotate his head and hair and Oh my god was it hard for me to comprehend.  Therefore I copped out...you can also see me cop out on the hair for the other 2 attack animations.  I completely ripped them from the first attack.  I'm not sure if that is a good thing to do or just lazy   
 
I really like how you sped it up, not sure what you did to speed it up though.  I have more to say but I gotta go!!!  I will comment more soon!!

[Souly]

I think to speed it up he removed some frames.
As I said before I really dislike the arms at the end of that swing.
They just don't read how they should.
Now my edit has thick arms but hopefully you can see how the arms should kind of be.

[Jad]

Haha, who the hell is 'she'? : D

I'm a MANLYMAN you know. Even with blob and all.

Err, I just lowered frame delay in graphics gale O: from 5 to 3. I actually added a frame without sparkles and ice debris at the end, heh. Do you use graphics gale? In that case you just click the [...]-button on the frame and change stuff from there!

Also yes, I agree with souly's edit, arms read much better like that.

I'd say - don't be afraid to draw complex key frames! First draw the wind-up as you'd like it with complex pose and all (doing it super rough is great - redrawing every frame is a good thing in this stage!), then do the same with the release! Then polish those frames and then do in-betweens!

Remember that if you want snappy and smooth motion, you can use your frames for almost only release animation - even instantaneous motion looks smooth if there's well-drawn and smoothly animated release afterwards.

So if you've got 5 frames for example to do an attack animation with, doing windup-windup-slash-release-release would seem like a good idea, but I'd go with windup-slash[WITH OVERREACH]-release-release-release instead

For snappy motion you will want the slash frame to either be very fast and almost invisible (only motion blur) or integrate it into one of the release frames (motion trail, for example)

You did the latter but then you neglected to tend to your release frames instead, so instead of creating smooth snappy motion you arrived at snappy and stuttering motion instead! This is what I think!

Some other things to check out in my animation:

Note the little hit-flash that indicates where his ice slash would hit. I think it's good to indicate stuff like that to make it clear where the action is centered.

Note the slight overreach - he slams so fast his bat goes farther than where his arms natural resting position would be, and thus it snaps back in the following frames.

Note how most of the small particle effects are extremely simply drawn but move at very small increments per frames - coupled with high animation speed this creates very smooth and pleasing motion. This goes for his overreach and release frames as well, using the same framecount as you I was able to make things feel smooth by simply dragging and dropping stuff in single-pixel steps. The eye instantly spots sudden stops in motion so keep it entertained!

Well, I'm glad you like it, heh.

Also Souly sorry if I have decieved you with a false cutesy orange blobby effeminate...ness. I think a switch to a manlier avatar might be in order!

[Mike]

Jad before I start my edits(which will be posted "soonish"; edited after the fact) I was wondering about how you said I should use windup, slash, release release release on a 5 frame animation and yet for the edit you did of the second attack it has several frames before the slash and release.  I'm not trying to say you are contradicting what you said, but I'm just curious as to how I should go about this before hand.  Furthermore I am a strong believer in putting the game play before the art so with that in mind I definitely want the animations to be fast. 

I should say though that it is less like Zero's slashing which is strong enough to kill an enemy in one hit while on the other hand my characters first attack is merely a tap which doesn't cause a huge amount of knockback.  The game I'm making is based on using combo's to cause more damage for the enemy as well as using proper elements so that you have the advantage. 

My hierarchy goes like this 1st attack=little knockback,little damage, 2nd attack, more knockback, more damage, 3rd attack, the most knockback, plus the most damage.

The 3rd attack knocks enemies out of range basically, though you can always stop before you finish the 3rd attack and return to attack 1 than 2 than 3.  In addition you have a move which allows you to knock enemies into the air after which you can jump up to them and attack them with air combo's.  Think Devil May Cry and you pretty much have the basis for the combat style I'm going for.  Do not fret though as I am adding in my own flair and ideas into the combat which I hope will make it stand on it's own.

Just wanted to clear that up as well as throw out how I want things to work in game.  Feel free to critique me on that too because I'm open to whatever in order to make my game more appealing.

In addition this thread(and this time I mean it) will be the only thread I use to upload art for this current project.  Even if it is far away from the top I will update in this thread from now on, and not just animations.  I'll be needing a grip load of help on how the heck I should do the tiles as well as how tiles are even done    I'll be providing early screenshots of the game in order for you guys to see exactly what I'm getting at. 

tl;dr This thread will be where I dump all art from the game I'm making.(Hopefully that is allowed...)
Oh and I will stay laser focused on the current critiques before going to another piece of art

I think to speed it up he removed some frames.
As I said before I really dislike the arms at the end of that swing.
They just don't read how they should.
Now my edit has thick arms but hopefully you can see how the arms should kind of be.

Souly I'm going to address this exact thing in my edit.  I didn't like the way the arms were drawn either, but I didn't know how I wanted them.  I like that you took the road of simplification.  I really need to learn that there is more than one way to do things.

Sadly I must go to sleep now as I am knackered.

[Jad]

Well, first off, I made the edit first and then I typed whatever useful I could come up with so the edit and the text do contradict in places! O:

Anyhow, it doesn't have to be super strong looking, but you know, if the first attack is more of a tap, then just ditch the windup and go straight for the slash and some release, then increase windup for the second attack and add some oopmph, and then go all out with third attack. You've got the hierarchy down in your mind so be sure to express it in your animations as well.