You really have to have a different sort of measure for videogames than other sorts of art
Perhaps you do, I've never found myself wanting to change the way i play or assess videogames. My whole point is that for a good game, it doesnt matter if it takes 10 or 30 hours, which i view as within reason, but it needs to be
full. Flashback isn't quite full enough.
N is not at all for me. Personally, I think it sucks in the sense that i do not find it enjoyable. At all.
I can't help but feel that a lot of what people are saying about rpg's comes from not playing them, or just not enjoying the game elements that are present. Like I said, every game I have played I have beaten in less than half the time you guys are talking about, and spent most of that time playing the
game portion, not reading. If the game portion is overcomplicated or perhaps in your opinion boring, than yes, there is no reason to play it. On the flip side, a game with mediocre gameplay or worse, great gameplay in a style that doesn't appeal to you
and no story is equally not worth playing in my mind. If you took a story that I enjoyed, like FFT (a pretty good deviation from the typical FF story) and put it into a shmup, I would not play that game.
I;m not arguing that all games must take forever and have a massive story to be good, either. My list again:
1 - Suikoden 2 - 27 hours by my memory card, story driven. Gameplay is chief.
2 - Myst - GOD knows how many hours, story present but not important. I suppose it's mostly gameplay.
3 - Sonic the Hedgehog 2 - Countless hours, still have never beaten it, essentially without story. 100% good gameplay.
4 - Seiken Densetsu 3 - 19 hours according to the emulator, piss-poor story but great game nonetheless, 99% gameplay.
5 - FFT - 38 hours by my memory card, story driven but with great gameplay.
6 - Medieval: Total War (the original) - about 12 hours now total, does not have a story. 100% good gameplay.
7 - Conquest of the New World - countless hours, does not have a story. 100% good gameplay.
8 - Flashback, 10 hours sounds like a good guess, story present but not important. 99% gameplay.
9 - FF7 - 34 hours by my memory card, story driven. Only game here where gameplay steps aside frequently to storyline.
10 - Megaman Legends - 21 hours by my memory card, story present but not important
No 100 hours, no crappy gameplay.
MarkusRosse - Legend of Mana feigns non-linear gameplay in that you may choose the order in which you play the missions, but it's still pretty rigid. It's hard to make a good game that is open. The sims is open, but lacking. Jedi Knight: Accademy offers choice of missions and in the end the choice between light and dark, but it's still pretty straight-forawrd. Good gameplay though, one of the few games with a decent lightsaber system.
The best we can do for Partisan is to have a linear "main story" with 2 branches depending on the side you take, each with close but different mission paths, supported by as many smaller choices and casual missions as we can think of as well as a reputation system which changes how people will react to you and the allies you can choose and the quests you can accept. Oh and nearly everyone can be killed if not at any point than after they have moved their necessary part of the story. Still though, there is a main storyline that must be followed eventually.
Original Civilization is a great game for its time and deserves and honorary top-ten status, but Conquest is more rounded.