Slouching Mario - WIP, C+C

[Charlieton]

So, MarioMarathon 5 (charity event that's raising money for Child's Play) is going on, and I thought I'd create something Mario. Don't know if I'll send it in as fanart, but might if I'm satisfied with the final results.

It's a pretty small piece, and it's still undergoing lots of changes and getting polish. Thought I'd share the progress, and ask for general C+C.

This is where I started at:


And this is where I am:


Several parts are still missing details (gloves/hands, shirt) and the outlining is inconsistent. Well, pretty much everything is WIP I guess is the fastest way to explain it.

(Also, if you have some extra money and like Child's Play, why not donate some! I know having access to games certainly made my hospitalization more bearable. )

Thank you for your time!

[Lachie Dazdarian]

I think it's a wonderful design for the start.

To my inexperienced eyes, I think the transition between the trousers and red shirt is a bit off, I mean, the shading in that part. I think more stronger lines there (or more stronger contrast) wouldn't be a bad choice. Also, maybe some shadow from Mario's head over the red shirt under his chin. Lastly, the shading of the...crotch...well, I have to see how you will develop it more.

[Charlieton]

Not much progress, today. This was all I had time for.

I think it's a wonderful design for the start.

To my inexperienced eyes, I think the transition between the trousers and red shirt is a bit off, I mean, the shading in that part. I think more stronger lines there (or more stronger contrast) wouldn't be a bad choice. Also, maybe some shadow from Mario's head over the red shirt under his chin.

Thank you for your comment! Yes, all your points are valid.

Basically what I've done is pull all the shading down a bit. Also, got rid of outlines, and started on some re-shaping of the hat (I'm straightening out the form, which was a mess). No shading on there, yet.

Lastly, the shading of the...crotch...well, I have to see how you will develop it more.

What about it? 

[Lachie Dazdarian]

The shading on the trousers is much better now (perfect for my inexperienced eye). I still don't like the transition between the shirt and the trousers.

Here is my attempt at it. I definitely think you need more colors. Have in mind I'm a complete n00b. Just trying to illustrate what I would like to change, not that I can do it better.

[ptoing]

Heavy edit time!



I changed quite a few things, but not really structurally. Mainly tweaks really.
List of why I did what

• Ears and sideburns, because Mario has those.
• Added background to have more contrast because depressed looking Mario and happy landscape.
• Made picture higher to have more space (weight) to press down on Mario
• light dependent outlines for more definition
• Changed some colours, mainly desaturated. There are actually less now than before. 12 in total.
• Made the shoulder-straps actually connected to the pants by the buttons and added a little pouch thing.

I hope this helps.
Keep it up

[PypeBros]

• Made the shoulder-straps actually connected to the pants by the buttons and added a little pouch thing.

Quite fun: the pouch-and-straps on Mario's belly now give the counter-point of MArio's depressive mood: it just look as a "yeahhh! havin' so much fun'" smiley.

Two thing I observe on your edit, though:
1) mario's belly now look quite flat -- possibly because of the trousers using a perfectly horizontal line.
2) that band of intermediate blue shade at the bottom of Mario's trousers. I think I'd try har to get rid of it, but I don't see too much how I'd do that.

But alltogether, it's great guidance you provided... once again

[ptoing]

Haha, I did not notice the smiley face on the stomach.

Good crits, so I tried to edit some more. Added one colour for the red. In order to make Mario look even more pathetic.

[Ürch]

that... doesn't look like mario's hat...

[Grimsane]

damn probably should have been snappier and posted before getting ready, was gonna try doing an edit when I saw the post yesterday with some suggestions, but didn't really have time noticed ptoing's edit so based my suggestions off his groundwork, just approaches to the volume and slack shading suggestions, but he's since done another

[Charlieton]

Great edit, ptoing! You certainly know which tools to use (and how) in order to give expression and definition to an image. I can learn a lot from it, especially regarding colour choice.

I like a lot of the changes you did, so I tried to incorporate them in my own image. Yes, it's a very depressed and weighed down-looking Mario we're dealing with here, so the composition you suggested makes sense. I've added more open space above Mario, and I dropped his head about 2 pixels in an attempt to make him look even more compressed and weighed down.

I had completely forgotten about the sideburns! I didn't think I'd need to look at a reference to get Mario right, but apparently I should've . Also, the ears should be visible as well.

And about that...

that... doesn't look like mario's hat...

No, I've taken some (actually conscious!) creative freedom with this piece. However, in some cases I've found Mario's hat to be quite plump, and that is an impression I try to display here.

I tried an alternate route in which Mario is also holding a fire flower (like he's out on another adventure, despite his sullen mood!). However, at the moment I'm not satisfied with the look of it. I'd like to make it hang more, as to reflect the overall mood instead of contradict it like I think it does now (what with Mario actually holding it up somewhat). Probably I'll just stick it in his aldready relaxed, drooping hand...



I did next to nothing with the pants in this update, but I'll probably work on that next (then I'll take your suggestions in consideration, Grimsane!). Anyway, that's why there's no detail and shading around those parts still. I also haven't decided on what to have in the background yet. I'll change it from being just a single colour though, for sure.

It's down to 10 colours right now. I'm gonna have to add a couple more ofc (brighter blues and reds for example).

Thanks for the support, everyone!

[Cyangmou]

Also just felt to work on from ptoings awesome work. I tried to erase the "smile face" and also implied some anatomical nicetys.
Different mouth, eyebrows, hanging shoulders, other feet positioning. Also added some 'os' to the clouds and hills

[Friend]

Just a tiny suggestion for the fireflower-  This mario seems so depressed, and believe me, I know depression.  When you are depressed heavily, it shows through all of your body language, so mario could be barely hanging on to it and it could be dangling very loosely from his hand or slipping through his fingers.  Perhaps barely grasping on to it from the stem of the flower and the flower going towards the ground. I think you get the gist.  This would help making it stick out more too

[PypeBros]

So take care, kids: this is what 7 "princess in another castle" a day will take you to.

[Charlieton]

Just a tiny suggestion for the fireflower-  This mario seems so depressed, and believe me, I know depression.  When you are depressed heavily, it shows through all of your body language, so mario could be barely hanging on to it and it could be dangling very loosely from his hand or slipping through his fingers.  Perhaps barely grasping on to it from the stem of the flower and the flower going towards the ground. I think you get the gist.  This would help making it stick out more too

Yes, that was the plan.

Left the flower alone for now. Here's a small update on other stuff:


edit: Hmm, looks a bit too much orange. I'll revert to the red that's in the last update.

[PypeBros]

edit: Hmm, looks a bit too much orange. I'll revert to the red that's in the last update.

Imho, the leftmost edit by Grimsane was the one that best managed to render a slouchy belly, using under-breast shadow rather than an attempt to highlight. I bet it could be applied to the cap and arms as well.

[Bissle]

The orange doesn't look bad to me. I like the liberties you took with his regular design.

Right now, his belly looks like it sticks out at a near right angle--if viewed from the side, it would look cubical rather than roundish. If you want to emphasize a slouchy belly, you could go for something along the line of Grimsane's edit, or something like one of these:

 

If you want to deemphasize the belly, you could get away with no shading at all like in ptoing's first edit.

[redballoon]

I'm not at my notebook and using my phone so I can't do an edit, but if Mario is depressed could you not do a typical Mario cloud or Lakitu in his cloud hanging over him? Y'know like how depressed people are sometimes drawn with a heavy rain cloud hanging over them?

[Charlieton]

I'm sorry that I left this thread hanging . I could at least have told y'all that I've had problems making time for pixel arting. I've also been indecisive about where to go with the pants, considering there's been so many good, but differing suggestions about that. I guess it boils down to wether I want to emphasize or de-emphasize the roundness of the belly, which Bissle so accurately pointed out in his post.

For now, I've settled with shading that would suggest some roundness, though without making Mario look as obese as the rightmost of Bissles edits (which were great, btw!). I have also done a lot of other small changes, like changing colours to make it brighter and add more contrast between light and shadow. I've taken some additional hints from ptoings edits too, like giving the gloves and boots more shape and defintion. Also, there's a pleasant, cloudy background now.



Actually, I've been struggling with what to put in the background, too. The humour in the piece is derived from placing the melancholy, tired Mario in his usual, cheery and colourful environment. I think contrasting moods like that are funny. But the crux is I'm having a hard time figuring out what to put in the background in order to deliver that. A pleasant, bright and lightly clouded day is fine, I guess, but it's a bit boring as well. I need something more, but it can't become too cluttered. ptoings backgrounds are good in that way, but he's using other colours and I don't want to copy him too closely .

Anyway, when experimenting to find another background that could work with the colours I have, I created this mess !



Obviously it's not a very good image: the colourfullness of the background is overpowering, and makes Mario blend into it somewhat. Also, it's sloppily made. I just hastily scribbled those waves (it's supposed to be the sea in sunset, in case you can't tell) with my mouse cursor, spending about 2 min on it total. But still, I think it's very funny with such a dramatic, fantastic vista for a background, coupled with our depressed Mario. Maybe I could make it work if I mixed it up composition-wise (like, pulling the sea down a bit, leaving more room for the sky) and spent some time on actually making it pretty. However, I don't think I'm going to pursue this direction anyway, because it's thematically unfitting, meaning it's obviously not in Marios usual environment of the Mushroom Kingdom.

UNLESS the scene is taking place in the world of Super Mario Sunshine. Should I add F.L.U.D.D !?  If anything, it could make Mario look even more pathetic.

Anyway, thank you all for your help and inspiration so far! Keep the brainstorm going!

[Grimsane]

quick ed, don't think the background is that weak, I do agree the vibrancy definitely doesn't match the mood and confuses focus

one idea would be storm clouds, would further push an oppressive mood and emphasize Mario's state of melancholy

[Facet]

Hey, great to see you pick this back up, sweet progress already. I like the idea & redballoon's cloud suggestion tickled me too , so I gave it a take on the theme.

A couple of char. ideas: I think the pose could be more expressive; beyond the low hat brim it doesn't really scream lethargy to me. I tried hunched shoulders, trailing arms and turned in knees; more inward, drooping generally. I also went with the more characteristic high, rotund belly and longer legs partly to better facilitate the previous but mostly just 'cos I like 'em. I might have lightened the darkest brown and introduced some black to delineate the mousache 'n stuff in polishing up.
 
For the background I agree with your self assessment; I'd like to see something flatter, more layered and mushroom kingdom-y. I gave my version a sort of gradation of colour/mood top to bottom and I felt like green was quite evocative of the game-world for whatever reason. 

[Charlieton]

Thanks for the encouragement and suggestions! Meanwhile, I did this:



Tried my hand on a basic, game-related background and changed the colours on Mario around a bit more. I wanted to highlight the pants somewhat to make them more distinct from the background, but the way I did it probably doesn't make sense. I'll try something else for the next update.

@Facet: That's a really cool Mario! I like how you successfully mix angularity and roundness in that piece. Yes, it's true that there could be more expression in Marios demeanor if I really want to convey his sadness. I hadn't thought about it before. I think that's because originally the intent wasn't actually to make a depressed Mario (rather, the intent was only to recreate Mario, but in my own style), but it evolved into kind of looking like that. So I went with it.

I had thought about adding in some green in the image too, 'cause like you say, it reminds me of the games. But I didn't 'cause I kind of didn't want to add more colours, for whatever ridiculous reason .

I'll stop worrying about the colour count and add whatever I need, make some more layers to the background, and change up the pants once more. I'll consider ways to add more expression to the character too.

Thanks again, guys!

update:

[PypeBros]

The blue tones and game-related background works better, imho, than the seaside. Matching the perspective is also important (it somehow felt out-of-place with the seaside).

One thing that looks imho missing so far in your latest update is the relationship between mario and the background. Has he played the level or is he about to play it ? Is he depressed by the challenge or still depressed after victory.

Baddies are completely absent from the background game scenes you put behind. Maybe a koopa wondering "why is he staying there ?" or remains of mario's activity (burnt flowers, broken bricks, flag brought down, flattened goombas and de-shelled koopas) could tell a bit more about the whole scene.