oh wow thx, very helpful, im fixing and anatomy problems atm getting the general head shape more symetrical and its helping quite a bit, Im only doing this for learning purposes so im not going to go to the extreme of perfection, im guessing I could keep edittin this more and more until its photoquality but at the end of it there wouldn't be a great deal of purpose.. Im avin fun anyways, Joshua your edit looks lovely but it's totally not my style (i'd be working too much out of my comfort zone) And I reaally don't want to go back to square one with everything, I just want this finished really.. Its draggin on a bit imo and it looks completely different to what it did originally... im soo happy you're all willin to help me with this, drawing/pixeling females have always been a pet-hate for me.