AuthorTopic: Tree [Finished?]  (Read 9699 times)

Offline Opacus

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Tree [Finished?]

on: May 25, 2007, 11:25:44 am
Pretty happy with it so far. Inspired by Henk Nieborg. Also looked carefully at the techniques, colours etc he used.
11 colours ex BG.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2007, 04:24:35 pm by Opacus »

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Tree [WIP]

Reply #1 on: May 25, 2007, 01:42:10 pm
wonderful job so far, my only 2 suggestions would be A.) finish it and B.) add in some direct cast shadows from the leafy bits
A mistake is a mistake.
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Offline piotrek255

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Re: Tree [WIP]

Reply #2 on: May 25, 2007, 02:27:23 pm
i'm not in a position to judge so fantastic artwork, but you should add some darker shading on the part of the tree where shadows drop, it depends on the direction of light.  but i guess you figured it out already.

PS: how long it took you making it?
my way of the pixel? -> minimum effort, maximum quality 0_0

Offline Opacus

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Re: Tree [WIP]

Reply #3 on: May 25, 2007, 02:35:12 pm
Thanks guys.

Adarias: 1): I like it too much not to finish it :P  2): Ah, yes, indeed.

Piotrek: Hmm, well, yes, partially true, but light also reflects of the ground and bounces back to the back side. It might make it slightly darker because the light becomes less strong when it reflects, but there's NEVER a place where there's no light at all. If so, it'd be pure black. Though I'll look a little deepere into that.
Ehm, about 1 and a half hour so far I think? Maybe 2.


Keep them comment comming.

Offline Opacus

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Re: Tree [WIP]

Reply #4 on: May 25, 2007, 04:19:23 pm
Finished:

12 colours inc trans.

Offline Helm

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #5 on: May 25, 2007, 04:45:57 pm
-

Here's a fast and rough edit of why trees should cast shadows on themselves, also brightness addition in places, skimmed a few colors and made the tree trunk have a more interesting shift going, hope I help.

Offline Zee

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #6 on: May 25, 2007, 04:50:08 pm
Wow, I like it alot.

But what's up with the purple love around here? Every edit I see seems to get purples injected into them.

Offline Helm

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #7 on: May 25, 2007, 04:52:07 pm
There's a dull blue and a pink in my edit. I try to avoid strong saturated purple.

And it goes well with most things that have earth-toned stuff on them like yellows and oranges because it's the complementary color.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #8 on: May 25, 2007, 05:12:34 pm
There's a dull blue and a pink in my edit. I try to avoid strong saturated purple.

And it goes well with most things that have earth-toned stuff on them like yellows and oranges because it's the complementary color.

I can't help but feel that, for this particular case though, it wouldnt be better to include regions that have none of those purples, as much a fan of the color as i am.  with that color uniformly applied, it doesnt compliment at all - rather, it desaturates the entire piece.

I think, for a vibrant jungle piece, i'd suggest something betwen the two with a bit more "oomph"



as far as matching nieborg, i think opac's original palette was the closest of any.. though perhaps change a few colors out for straight-up grays and browns

the contrast in helm's edit of course though is right-on for nieborg and art in general, and should be kept regardless of hues chosen
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Gil

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #9 on: May 25, 2007, 05:19:15 pm
Adarias is on to something...

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #10 on: May 25, 2007, 05:23:20 pm
the potential trouble with my edit is that it has enough attention-drawing counterchange to choke a horse, and if it were used in a game, it might steal away from characters unless they, too, are rather bright.
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Helm

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #11 on: May 25, 2007, 05:32:31 pm
Though I do think in terms of gameplay there's too much saturation in your piece, Adarias, I do enjoy the 'humid' feel the red shadows give it. Also, it's not in a game, as far as I know, therefore it doesn't have to complete with anything else until it is.

Offline Opacus

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #12 on: May 25, 2007, 05:51:38 pm
Well, it IS actually going to be in a personal project I'm workin on. And I'm looking for a very warm atmosphere in the game.
Helm: You're colours are great, but I really think they're too cold for the purpose of this game. I should increase the contrast on the leaves to increase depth here though.
Even though your colours are not what I'm looking for right now, it was still adducational, thank you.

Adarias: I'm really leaning towards your colours, red is of course one of the warmest colours there is, and I really like the atmosphere of your edit.

Here's my interpetation:



« Last Edit: May 25, 2007, 06:26:38 pm by Opacus »

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #13 on: May 25, 2007, 07:45:58 pm
all i have to say is wow, opacus. this is some quality shit right here!

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #14 on: May 25, 2007, 08:07:35 pm
Great!  I still think you need more contrast between the top and bottom of your clumps, but this is fantastic.  Leaves are a pain in the ass, and you make em look easy :)  nice work!

Offline 9_6

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #15 on: May 25, 2007, 08:38:02 pm
You're good D:
I don't have anything to crit.
Nice texturing!
Does scaling an image blur it?
Opera fix Firefox fix

Offline Opacus

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #16 on: May 25, 2007, 08:39:32 pm
Thanks loads guys =)
Here's some more contrast again, Adam?:

(Oh whoops, by replacing the last one, it's no longer hosted by PJ, thus it's no longer hosted. Did it that way cus imageshack's bitching today.)

Offline alkaline

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #17 on: May 25, 2007, 08:48:37 pm
wow, very nice work. I think the bark should get a desat job, I think the red color is a bit overwhelming. I find cooler, maybe even greenish shades toward the dark end would compliment the leaves more. however if your game desires a warmer atmosphere then AT LEAST tone down the red a little.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #18 on: May 26, 2007, 01:56:10 am
alkaline, i dont wish to offend, but each thing you said is artistically wrong.  red compliments green by definition, green doesnt compliment itself, and desaturation removes warmth, it doesnt add it, and red adds warth are well.

im not trying to call you out here, i just want to put those out for the record, in case someone goes and takes your reasons as correct, and ends up mislearning (as you may have?)
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline alkaline

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #19 on: May 26, 2007, 02:12:34 am
apparently the red was only overwhelming on my other computer. I checked it out on my other and the red is not nearly as noticeable. time for a recalibration...


like, it was a BRIGHT red. in that case, I don't think it would work so well, eh. I wasn't referring to complementing colors persay, I probably could have worded it better. from my point of view the red was just awful, but it was my monitor.

Offline Helm

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #20 on: May 26, 2007, 02:13:25 am
well not to OT here but there's no 'rules' on what complements what. The opposite end of the color spectrum thing is just something impressionists did. Let's not go overboard with what's 'right' and what's 'wrong'.

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #21 on: May 26, 2007, 02:41:12 am
hey

I really like the way Helm's edit brings everything together. I'm not exactly sure, but I think it's mainly due to the use of the green highlight on the bark. Hmm, I dunno if this conflicts with Henk Nieborg's art or whatever, but I think it is something important to think about.

edit
Just wanted to quickly point out that I also like Adarias's edit, I think the red is quite well suited, and adds alot of depth.

Anyhows, sorry I don't have any direct advise :\.

cyas
« Last Edit: May 26, 2007, 02:55:33 am by yosh64 »

Offline Feron

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #22 on: May 26, 2007, 06:35:33 am
i have studied nieborg for like the past year and a half or something, i know i'm a little obsessed but heres a small edit + some color changes:



also knocked the color count down by 4, it could perhaps even lose another one, but the time isnt probably worth it.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2007, 06:40:26 am by Feron »

Offline ptoing

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #23 on: May 26, 2007, 08:02:49 am
Dear Feron, I think you need to put away the sledgehammer and pneumatic drill and learn a bit about the art of subtlety :B
But seriously, that edit is pretty harsh, I kicked 4 colours as well and with virtually no detailloss and minimal infoloss which i think helps tho in bringing the wood and foilage together (sharing of the 2 darkest shades on those) If I would reduce Feron-style I could prolly hammer away 3 more colours or something.

Also increased saturatiuon on some bits morwe and the contrast between colours, overall contast did not change too much tho.



Keep it up Opacus, you are showing excellent progress :)
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Opacus

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #24 on: May 26, 2007, 08:35:25 am
I have to agree with Ptoing on this one, Feron. You're colour choices make the leaves look like plastic :P
Damn, those are some hot colours Ptoing.

You made me steal em :B
Although they were chosen by myself, and not directly stolen of yours :3

Offline Helm

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #25 on: May 26, 2007, 08:51:43 am
This is where you have to make a decision for yourself, not follow whichever edit is newer. It's your art, we can spin you palettes forever. Remember that progress needs to be made on your own terms.

Offline Opacus

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #26 on: May 26, 2007, 08:56:26 am
This is where you have to make a decision for yourself, not follow whichever edit is newer. It's your art, we can spin you palettes forever. Remember that progress needs to be made on your own terms.
Indeed, indeed. Having a hard time deciding to go in Adarias's direction, or Ptoing's...
I think I do like Ptoing's slightly better...

Offline Feron

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #27 on: May 26, 2007, 09:37:54 am
Dear Feron, I think you need to put away the sledgehammer and pneumatic drill and learn a bit about the art of subtlety :B

too true.

I think using black as the dark shadow color for higher contrast looks better, and certainly more-nieborg (if thats what you want).
I think putting shadow under the bush on the right is needed, aswell as more shadows along the branches.


Your highlights were also too shiny, wood doesn't shine!

I really like this in its current state and could be called finished.  As helm said we could do pallette changes forever!  ;D
« Last Edit: May 26, 2007, 09:40:07 am by Feron »

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #28 on: May 26, 2007, 11:29:16 am
well not to OT here but there's no 'rules' on what complements what. The opposite end of the color spectrum thing is just something impressionists did. Let's not go overboard with what's 'right' and what's 'wrong'.

I tihnk it's perfectly reasonable to say that a word used against its artistic definition is artistically wrong.  Red is warm by definition, and opposites are complements, dating back far further than the mid nineteenth century, the concept pertaining to colors originating during the late renaissance and being highly popular among classicist and mannerist painters alike, further explored and the common term possibly coined by isaac newton.  In math, the term has existed for even longer refering to essentially the opposite set or value.

To go against several hundred years of study and theory can be really crippling for a student, not to mention confusing.  If i were to say "helm, your piece is too dull right now, you should use less saturated colors," not only would I be wrong in my word choice, but if you were to try and act on this advice (or even visualize it in your mind to consider it) you would find the advice completely backwards and unuseable.



As far as the piece is concerned, im not sure its gotten any "better" since yesterday morning.  I much prefer the bright wood to the dark wood, though feron's would work much better as a background (being of a much narrower range of values).  I will stand by the advice i've given each time, which is that cast shadows will add a lot of depth to the piece, but since the pixels themselves are hardly chaning and only the palette is going through slight changes, I'd say it might be time to leave well enough alone and move on at least to another tree, if not something else entirely :P
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Helm

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #29 on: May 26, 2007, 11:51:57 pm
Quote
I tihnk it's perfectly reasonable to say that a word used against its artistic definition is artistically wrong.

I don't think there's any such thing as 'artistically wrong' in any case. But there's no need to drag this one out, Opacus doesn't benefit from a terminology discussion, much less by an epistemological one.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Tree [Finished?]

Reply #30 on: May 27, 2007, 12:20:36 am
Looking more at this piece, i wonder if it would do to divide the leaf bunches into more separated value regions, with some taking brighter parts of the ramp, and others darker, since right now they all seem at equal depth.  Im on a new monitor too and it's suprising how much less the dark brown bugs me, looks perfectly fine now, even a bit better.  It's suprising what a different screen will do to a piece.  The only thing i would change about feron's edit, it goes from black to light very sharply, jaggedly even (no pun intended :P); i might make that darker blue a bit darker to smooth things out slightly.


Helm, does that mean we can assign arbitrary meanings to anything we like, and when someone asks, one could just hide behind the idea that you want the word to mean something else entirely?  For this piece, i predict that the magical glass defends the sweating keeper, you may want to flash behind the triple accused. Hail the downfall of linguistics, of logic, of thylogale!  No more must a person think about how he communicates, he must simply utter, and everyone who matters will understand!  Sounds like a really good plan there, mate.

EDIT: realized it wasn't neessarily clear, but im just teasing :P.  i dont actually care that someone hasa different view of how words ought be used ^^
« Last Edit: May 27, 2007, 12:31:01 am by Adarias »
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.