Video game characters*Updatered*

[Mike]

[edit] added old version of characters.
After reading Helm's ramble thread(see "re-reading") I decided to work on 2 old characters of mine.  Here are my results.

Old


New 02/11/09

Newer 02/12/09



and
Old

New 02/11/09

Newer 02/12/09

My main goal was to work on anti-aliasing and eliminate as much banding as possible(within reason)  Not sure how I did so here I am for critiques and comments.  Oh and

[PypeBros]

and ? ...

btw, it would make more sense if you showed us face to face former look and updates of your character ... unless I've misunderstood the point of this thread.

[Jad]

I'd say you've done what you've could with the style and ideals you've went for! As it is right now cocky-guy relies very much on outlines with color fill and then the shading sometimes feels like more of an afterthought; not that it IS but that's how it comes off.

I think translating shadows and highlights into larger volumes than 'a tight band that hugs the outline in the appropriate direction while trying to avoid banding happening' and breaking up outlines a bit to help that cause would present you with a more doable and definitely more delightful challenge when it comes to placement of pixel clusters, AA and banding.

Well, you definitely did much of that with the girl anyways, the biggest crit I've got for her is that her darker skin shade is much too sickly yellow, more pinkygray please!

Also I reaally dig the lightness of the top of her head, would you try to apply the same effect on other things that face directly upwards too? hands or even arms, and the little ponytail.

Anyways nice to see you working on your pixels manmandude!

[Helm]

There's a little banding left but what's more important is that you need to balance your mids-shadows-highlights. Right now you pixel with all three in equal exposure on the piece but that's not a good way to light stuff I think. Highlights should be much smaller on the mids, and shadows should have a working relationship to punch out the mids, the mids are the color identity that's what you need. Use shadows to sculpt and show depth, use highlights to show edges and flats towards the lightsource as well as to suggest the texture of the surface. Also, noodly arm, look how much strength a few 45 degree lines give to the character, how much more he emotes 'I'm cocky' now. Also the lessons you seem to be digesting on the smaller sprite about outlines that are colored according to the lightsource could really be applied to this sprite as well (as I tried). Look at the shoulder where I omit the outline halfway, how that suggests a slight swerve of the arm etc. Know when to break your outlines. You're making good progress, keep at it.

Don't bother so much with detailing all the accessories of a dude like this. Good flats and volumes are always a priority for believable looking sprites.

[Mike]

I'd say you've done what you've could with the style and ideals you've went for! As it is right now cocky-guy relies very much on outlines with color fill and then the shading sometimes feels like more of an afterthought; not that it IS but that's how it comes off.

I think translating shadows and highlights into larger volumes than 'a tight band that hugs the outline in the appropriate direction while trying to avoid banding happening' and breaking up outlines a bit to help that cause would present you with a more doable and definitely more delightful challenge when it comes to placement of pixel clusters, AA and banding.

Well, you definitely did much of that with the girl anyways, the biggest crit I've got for her is that her darker skin shade is much too sickly yellow, more pinkygray please!

Also I reaally dig the lightness of the top of her head, would you try to apply the same effect on other things that face directly upwards too? hands or even arms, and the little ponytail.

Anyways nice to see you working on your pixels manmandude!

Yeah I agree I was using the outline as a sort of a style crutch.  It used to be black but I changed it to a red shade and when I did that it made it look hotter/warmer/neater so I kept it but really what I want is to have believable lighting that make sense.  I'm definitely gonna be editing this until it's perfect.  I'm in no hurry to have it fixed either like I normally am since I'm not working on the actual game currently.

Oh and for the girls lighter colors on the head, it appears I forgot I did that so it only appears in one place.  I'll make an edit of where I think those highlights should go on other places.  Probably the hands, and pony tail.  I'm really horrible at lighting though :/

There's a little banding left but what's more important is that you need to balance your mids-shadows-highlights. Right now you pixel with all three in equal exposure on the piece but that's not a good way to light stuff I think. Highlights should be much smaller on the mids, and shadows should have a working relationship to punch out the mids, the mids are the color identity that's what you need. Use shadows to sculpt and show depth, use highlights to show edges and flats towards the lightsource as well as to suggest the texture of the surface. Also, noodly arm, look how much strength a few 45 degree lines give to the character, how much more he emotes 'I'm cocky' now. Also the lessons you seem to be digesting on the smaller sprite about outlines that are colored according to the lightsource could really be applied to this sprite as well (as I tried). Look at the shoulder where I omit the outline halfway, how that suggests a slight swerve of the arm etc. Know when to break your outlines. You're making good progress, keep at it.

Don't bother so much with detailing all the accessories of a dude like this. Good flats and volumes are always a priority for believable looking sprites.

NOOooooooooooo I fell for the dreaded pipe arms!!  *ahem* anyway that's a really awesome edit Helm.  Oh man it's so freaking beautiful!  I'm jealous  It's amazing that even though it's been edited so much it still retains the same idea/style that I'm going for him.  I don't know where to start listing off all the great changes you made.  The light source is definitely not following video game standards but I don't care looks sweet!!  Oh and great job on bringing out the shape of the legs, I tried doing that but I failed.

A few questions,

So the middle shade say for the pants is really only used to suggest the actual color and as long as that's been established I can use shadows without fear of losing the form?

What do you mean by flats?(my lack of traditional training is showing )

Do I need more green colors to outline the pants to match the skin, boots, jacket and hair?

Oh and one last thing about the pipeyness of the arm.  I wasn't sure how big I could make it without it looking too big but what you have is the perfect size.  I normally don't like working with 45 degree angles when it comes to body parts but I can see I'm gonna have to forget that stupid rule.  I picked that up from a tutorial that said it was awful to use them for characters(I can't find the tutorial though sorry)

I'll be updating later today tomorrow, bye for now.

[Helm]

So the middle shade say for the pants is really only used to suggest the actual color and as long as that's been established I can use shadows without fear of losing the form?

Yes. Also a good idea to have the middle color be the overal saturation and lightness you need for your character, and then the highlight and shadows can tint towards whichever direction. As long as the middle color is the most prevailent, it will hold together.

Flats I mean just flat space, don't overcomplicate the design at this resolution. You'll notice my edit *took away* much more pixels than it added. I tightened the forms (pixel clusters, in pixel art lingo) but I didn't actually add that very many new ones. If you don't go wrong with a piece that's made out of 3-4 colors *then* adding more faces and gradiations with more colors is easier. Here your forms were pretty messy, so I was just suggesting, work more minimally, add 'one more triangle to the mesh' that looks good rather than 30 that look wobbly.

Why would you need another green to outline the pants? Isn't the global saturated red doing it fairly well? You could, but especially if the piece will be in motion and the eyes of the viewer won't catch such slight alterations as 'oh the pants have their own outline color', what are you gaining?


I don't know about a general rule about no 45 degrees for bodyparts. I can see cases where it wouldn't work but I wouldn't hold it as law.

[Mike]

Updates



I'm not sure how well I did on this, I tried my best to emulate what Helm did without copying directly.  Hope I did well.



And here is the edit of the girl.  I highlighted all the areas where I think the light would hit.

oh and I have a request.  Can someone make an edit that makes her chin less sharp?  I've tried multiple ways to get it less jaggy but I failed  

[Jad]

> D >

< D <

ARGH

I REALLY want to give a truckload of crits but I'm just feeling giddily happy over how much you're improving and how hot your pixel art has become @ __ @

The only things I can say at the moment:

1. KEEP ON TRUCKING

2. ANIMATE THIS SHIT (then post it here)

<3

[Rawsushi]

oh and I have a request.  Can someone make an edit that makes her chin less sharp?  I've tried multiple ways to get it less jaggy but I failed 

[Mike]

2. ANIMATE THIS SHIT (then post it here)

Oh I plan to, which leads me to my next question.  Whats the best way to go about animating an idle anim?  Should I make superfulous bounces or should it be more realistic and have them shifting their weight every so often, maybe crossing arms some times.  Whenever I have to stand that's what I do.  I'm thinking that will work for the guy but not so much for the little girl.  Hmmmm...  I haven't started on either of these animations yet so I could definitely use some ideas

Here are some character traits for each character oh and they are from 2 different games.  I should've mentioned that sooner.

The guy:
1.One of three from a band of down on their luck thieves
2.Lives inside an old abandoned dilapidated warehouse.
3.Is confident in his skill but isn't completely full of himself.
4.Cares for his 2 companions and would do anything to keep them safe.
5.Even though he seems like he may be a leader he's second to another.
6.Has no formal training in the martial arts, more like a very unrefined street brawler
7.He's pretty much wearing clothes he found/stole and is wearing fancy white shoes he stole from a truck while it was unloading.
8.For as long as he can remember he can create and control fire(original I know)and his fighting style is based on that.
9.His friends think his pants are ridiculous looking but to him they are his cherished one of a kind item he stole off a psychedelic clown from a traveling carnival.  Originally they were too large but he had them tailored to fit him.


The girl:
1.She lives with her grandpa
2.She is a bit shy, timid one might say
3.Shes the kind of girl to play with a bug and afterward with shifty eyes >_> <_< possibly eat it.

I don't know that much about her since I just designed her, it's my friends character personality wise.


Oh and thank you for the edit Rawsushi much smoother than what I had!  Hope you don't mind if I just use that.  Kinda hard for me to make my own edit based on that.

[NaCl]

Hey Mike, cool characters. I did a little bit of animation on the girl, mainly just for fun. I think she is exaggerated enough to warrant some exaggeration in her animations. I also made her arms bounce up and down a little bit, but I couldn't make it subtle enough to look good.



Keep it up

[PypeBros]

The guy:
1.One of three from a band of down on their luck thieves
2.Lives inside an old abandoned dilapidated warehouse.
3.Is confident in his skill but isn't completely full of himself.
4.Cares for his 2 companions and would do anything to keep them safe.
5.Even though he seems like he may be a leader he's second to another.
6.Has no formal training in the martial arts, more like a very unrefined street brawler
7.He's pretty much wearing clothes he found/stole and is wearing fancy white shoes he stole from a truck while it was unloading.
8.For as long as he can remember he can create and control fire(original I know)and his fighting style is based on that.
9.His friends think his pants are ridiculous looking but to him they are his cherished one of a kind item he stole off a psychedelic clown from a traveling carnival.  Originally they were too large but he had them tailored to fit him.

That's pretty much of his character defined. At least enough for a good theatre amateur to play him. Probably you might want to try playing him yourself to "feel" how he could move first. His current pose suggests he's in a talky mood rather than in a fighty mood, so I'd not try to animate him in a fighting stance from his current pose.

As for "how should he idle", I'd suggest you focus on the fact that he's a thief. Rather moving silently to sneak you in your back than bouncing like a boxer. A ninja might be a good animation reference, for that purpose.

[Tuna Unleashed]

i can buy the thief thing up to the pants, those can serve no purpose but drawing attention

[Mike]

That's pretty much of his character defined. At least enough for a good theatre amateur to play him. Probably you might want to try playing him yourself to "feel" how he could move first. His current pose suggests he's in a talky mood rather than in a fighty mood, so I'd not try to animate him in a fighting stance from his current pose.

As for "how should he idle", I'd suggest you focus on the fact that he's a thief. Rather moving silently to sneak you in your back than bouncing like a boxer. A ninja might be a good animation reference, for that purpose.

Even though I may not have the vocabulary to express what I meant by down on their luck thieves what I meant to express was that it's more like Aladdin and they steal what they need because they are basically without a permanent home(ie homeless).  However they recently found a place to crash so for the time being they live there.  So what I'm saying is he is more like a scrapper.

Oh and I'll just use this specific sprite for his non fight stance/talk animation and I'll go ahead and craft a new fight pose based on all we talked about.  But not before I finish this poses animation.

Hey Mike, cool characters. I did a little bit of animation on the girl, mainly just for fun. I think she is exaggerated enough to warrant some exaggeration in her animations. I also made her arms bounce up and down a little bit, but I couldn't make it subtle enough to look good.



Keep it up

Great idea using the wind to help with the animation   At first I totally thought you animated her belt but now I see it's just the shadow underneath.  Cool effect!  Also the way the pony tail moves in a sinewave pattern is excellent!

And yeah I think the way she is designed definitely allows for exaggeration and I wouldn't have it any other way.    I kinda want her to be bouncin' around a bit, maybe at the feet or possibly just the knees.  I'll try that approach first.

i can buy the thief thing up to the pants, those can serve no purpose but drawing attention

I suppose all I can say to that is...oh well, hah.  

Also I'll be working on the animations today I think  

[Mike]

I briefly worked on this but before I get too far I want to post it to make sure the movement isn't ridiculous lol oh and the animation doesn't loop properly yet which is why the hair is kinda static, only 4 frames so far.  And before anyone says anything I don't normally animate by moving and rotating pieces but because it's the idle it's kinda ridiculous to redraw the frames.  At least for me it is. 



While I was trying to come up with an animation for this pose I did the pose myself and just kinda stood still for awhile and it wasn't long before my ADD got the better of me and I started rocking back and forth by pressing the ball of my foot into the ground so it would push me off balance except it wasn't enough to throw me completely off balance so gravity did it's part and I would lean back in the direction I was in before.  It's kinda like tapping your foot but the whole body is apart of the movement.

Oh and if it's not too much trouble can someone break down how to properly do follow through animation, like on the hair and arms.  Because what I've been doing is moving the hair in the opposite direction as the body on the same frame but maybe I'm not supposed to animate the hair until the frame after I moved the body...meh I'm confused.

[blumunkee]

Whoa. The improvements in this thread are downright silly. I feel like the original sprite is trying to punk me.

Animation is 50% intuition and 50% observation. You've definitely got the intuition, and using yourself as a reference is extremely useful for animation and static art. For more reference I can suggest http://fightersgeneration.com/. There's lots of good Capcom and SNK sprites. Ash Crimson has some good examples of flowing hair: http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/ash-a.htm.

The animation is looking good. The hair needs to start dropping back down earlier. I'd say the legs need a little bend too. Nothing major, just a little subtle change so they don't seem so stiff.

Good schtuff! I AM WANT GET MORE

[BwdYeti]

Both feet end up looking weird due to the lower legs, since so far you just slid them back; it sets things at odd angles. It shouldn't be too hard to fix, he just needs to get his knees in motion too.
I really like the movement, he's not moving through much space but there's still a lot of action.

[Dr D]

My suggestion to fix the stiff legs would be simply to make them rotate rather than slide back. It looks as if the ankles on both his feet are about to break. You'll probably want to rotate them slightly counter-clockwise to keep them properly connected to his hips (which are moving back and forth) and his feet. (Which I don't think should really be moving at all, with the exception of the slow tapping motion.) (The shoes however, should of course conform to the position the legs are in.)

Like everyone else said though, awesome improvement here. Hope what I said makes any sense.

[Mike]

Oh wow I didn't even realize I was just sliding it oops.  I just checked in the mirror and the leg goes from slightly angled to straighter each time I move backwards(makes sense I know lol) and the leg on the right side of the screen bends at the knee(duh) when it pushes into the ground in order for it to bend though there needs to be forward movement.  I'm just gonna scrap the last two frames and redo the movement so it isn't breaking bones in the wrong way.  Possibly done today provided I have time 

[Jad]

If he's actively pushing himself backwards then you need another frame where the toes touch the ground but the body travels backwards - this is the frame where he actually does the pushing

to do follow through animation you need to not mirror the animation but delay it. This can be tricky to think about, but just try to imagine it. Make the hair stand still when he starts to move, then move the hair the same amount as he moves, then make it continue moving when he stops, then paint the little rebound. At that point some things will look right and others will look a bit off. Try to localize the off parts and make them make more sense. And then you're done! That's how I do it.

Also yeah, think about that leg breaking and make sure they .. don't

also on the same topic I do think some redrawing is in order. Since his hand remains on his hip it doesn't change, but the arm probaby moves a pixel or two when his back extends and retracts (which isn't actually possible, but since the bend of the spine that accomplishes this is so subtle just extending and retracting is ok by my standards!) Make sure that some distances stay the same - distance between shoulder and elbow, elbow and hand. Then if they change lengths, instead change, for example, the elbow's position to make sure they stay the same. Then repaint.

Stuff like that.

Also your style of pixels, shading and character design right now are scarily close to my own.

Of course I love it * U * <3

[Mike]

Even though I am really embarrassed of my lack of progress I'm gonna show what I have so far anyway.  I would've done a whole lot more but I've been busy trying to find a job so I've been running all over town getting interviews so my time to spend on this has been short.



The stuff I fixed was mostly the leg breaking and shifting, now it is redrawn for the most part, however their is still a bit of wobbly pixels on the leg.  I also took a shot at animating the hair but I'm not sure if the timing is right or not.  Also is the amount of frames too low?  Should their be more?  I could probably add more if I could figure out how to do sub pixel animation(aka anti-alias animation/animation by color.  I've seen every thread on this site about AA animation but I still haven't even grasped how to begin learning   

Anyone care to enlighten me and possibly others?

Please help me   I'm trying to get this looking as fluid as a downsized Street fighter 3 sprite.  Their animations are mind blowing!