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Messages - astraldata
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61
Pixel Art / Re: I need help with ze faces guys
« on: September 23, 2017, 10:36:07 pm »
I second eishiya's critique all the way.

The only thing slightly useful I could add is that the face of the female looks really really male due to its size. That's because female bones in general are smaller than males -- and despite them being twins, at this level of resolution/distance, you're focusing on something that's not very important in the image in the grand scheme anyway. You can keep their faces similar (eyes/noses), but you have to focus on emphasizing the differences in bone structure (even in the face!) between male/female no matter what.

Your head definitely needs to be smaller on BOTH figures though -- I think you're biased as far as detail level goes, since you're so focused on the idea that they're twins. It doesn't read that way to your viewers though. It really just looks like a male and another male with breasts (if I looked at their faces first.) At least shrink the female face area a little or shrink the jaw.

Lastly, you should consider adding in some saturation at some point in your colors. Even if you're going for a gritty washed-out look, without some hint of "color" mixed with the grays, your image simply appears dull without a hint of color perceivable in one of the shades somewhere in there. The massive use of desaturation will definitely keep the washed-out look, but in this case, you've got to avoid overdoing it by forgetting to add *some* color in there!




62
2D & 3D / Re: From voxel to pixel art
« on: September 23, 2017, 08:05:46 am »
Not quite voxel art but here is one way to get 3D looking like pixel art:




The wonky thing about voxel art is, no matter how you spin it, it's still 3D and you'd have to go through the same process I did with ol' Sonic there.

As far as your animation there -- that was made in 3D in a very similar way I made my Sonic above, but the result was cleaned up. The only 'tricks' there were frame- and color- reduction and orthographic view rendering with a tiny canvas size in something like 3DSMax.

63
2D & 3D / Re: Realtime Rendering of 3d Meshes as Pixelart
« on: September 23, 2017, 07:52:39 am »
Glad to see you working on this again Howard! -- Looks great as always! -- I hope you don't abandon it again though!!

One question:

Are you using a full-screen shader, or are you using a per-material shader? -- or a combination of both?

64
2D & 3D / Re: 3D2D Animation Workflow Proposal
« on: August 13, 2016, 11:42:58 pm »
Some new insight into my ventures into the 3D2D realm to reproduce the Guilty Gear Xrd model shading:

The one critical aspect of this workflow that has eluded me since I started this topic has been an editor that could modify a 3D model's normals that also used modern 3D modeling software and did NOT require or rely on old/outdated software such as Lightwave or, alternatively, uncommon software like Softimage that most 3D modelers did not know or use these days.

The good news is, I've managed to find an (intuitive -and free-!) editor for normals as an addon for the popular 3D software, Blender. Take a look at this article if you'd like to know more about it:


https://www.blend4web.com/en/community/article/131/


Along with the editing of the Ambient Occlusion maps/channels, one can create 3d models that render as proper anime/cartooning with realtime shading (using a proper shader of course) without the gross visual artifacts that plague most 3d models with cartoon shading.

As mentioned before, these are 3D models:





Their shading is done something like what is done in the video below:

https://youtu.be/iH3p8N7qbv8?t=270


And for a visual example of what's going on, the following is the same geometry -- just the normals on the face are edited:




This is the power of normal editing, but for some reason, it's just been lost to the sands of time until now. Thankfully Softimage still exists and has shown through Guilty Gear Xrd that it's possible to make 3D look bad-ass without relying solely on shaders. Unfortunately fancy shaders get people thinking "if I just find the right one, I'll suddenly get insta-anime somehow!" Sadly, a very false assumption. The stylization comes from many places, but at the most basic, it comes from the brain saying "hmm, some part of this picture isn't right... but it was intentional... so I like it!" which could be from anything out of the ordinary -- from form and color, to lighting itself. Since our brains notice contrast always before anything else (aside from motion), lighting alone is a very powerful tool -- and is a staple of any 3D visual technique, which means control over it is absolutely critical.

Being able to control normals properly is fundamental to the success of the modeling process, just as much (or even moreso!) than the texturing, shaping, or even the lighting itself.

Once I've worked through the full process, I'll share my findings on workflow with you guys if you're interested. I'm after the highly vector-art look of models because I feel that 3D (done properly, as it was in GGXrd) is the future of serious 2D animation.

65
2D & 3D / Re: Realtime Rendering of 3d Meshes as Pixelart
« on: July 12, 2016, 02:23:09 am »
So, I've finally delved into 3ds Max's material editor and discovered how to make some pixel-art looking stuff:



There are still some artifacts, and this doesn't have hueshifting, so I've got a long way to go, but the body/arm/leg portions (not his eyes or mouth/nose) is an image texture material I've rendered to resemble DKC graphics.

I would love to learn how to make hueshifting and dithering possible directly through this (rather old) method, but I've yet to spend enough time to learn how to do it. The method I used was from Howard's Irkalla mech demo, so it's pre-rendered, but I would love to be able to get a similar look in Unity in realtime at some point. It'd be really cool if Howard would share even his incomplete Unity shader project with us! I would love to play with using indexed colors with 3d models directly! :)

For now though, I'll keep plugging away at pre-rendered sprite materials... I'd prefer not to reinvent the wheel anymore though...

Somehow, we game designers seem to do that quite a lot, don't we?? :(


-----------

Update:



This one is a LOT better render-wise, and without a ton of artifacts! Got a lot of the pixel stuff sorted now! I even did a little hueshifting manually! :)

66
2D & 3D / Re: Realtime Rendering of 3d Meshes as Pixelart
« on: June 17, 2016, 04:49:51 am »
The techy guy in me is giddy inside just wondering how one could take colors from a texture applied to a 3d model and render them with specific colors from a limited palette. If ever Mr. Howard Day returns to this thread one day, I'd love it if he shares his secret to how he does this, and possibly even how he might render this without using a paid plugin. I wonder if it's possible to get this effect without the f-edge plugin. I'd really love to play with this shader extensively, but I've got no money to spare. :(

Howard Day has done an excellent job with this, but I'm not sure whether the shader is usable in any game engine yet, despite him saying it was realtime. If it is usable in a game engine, does anyone know which one?



@Cherno & @Gil
I agree with you both, but at least it doesn't suffer from the ghastly look that many 2d computer games (mostly adventure point n click and RTS games) in the early 90's had where they'd take a bunch of crappy 3d models and pre-render them with really *really* low framerates and low poorly-auto-selected color-count optimizations using limited-but-also-crappy palettes at stupid-low-resolutions. Even when this is at its worse, I can't imagine it to ever look *that* bad. ;S

67
Pixel Art / Re: Hair Blowing Loop
« on: May 10, 2016, 11:56:45 pm »
Sorry for the slow reply and the hasty edit -- Here's what I meant:





About frame 4-14 I fixed the sash a little to show what I meant regarding the 3d depth of the ribbon/cloth thingy, but your edit wasn't far off except you didn't put enough shadow across the form in some areas (such as the thin line of pixels moving down the sash over a couple of frames as it flops outward via the windy gust). As counter-intuitive as it may seem at first, it's highly more appealing to use shadow movement to crease the form as often as possible where it can make sense because this adds a lot of life to the subject and, as mentioned previously, it creates a lot more change (even if that change is made primarily with color!) In my edit, I have tweaked the lighting on the belt (but ONLY for a few frames -- I left its movement the same more or less silhouette-wise, and the others I left alone entirely -- hasty edit, as mentioned before, but hopefully you get the general idea).

Additionally, if you study the frames I mentioned, you'll notice that it allows the viewer to get a better sense of the form when you can show large surfaces (such as the tops of the waves of the ribbon/sash) and edges across the front of (even very thin ribbon-like) structures. You'd be amazed that, despite the obvious thickness of a single pixel, indicating edges via movement with those (like I did even with the "ahoge" you mentioned) creates a lot of information that the pixels themselves, as a static image only, could just barely hint at.

The biggest issue with the hair that I tried to explain before was actually in the wind direction of the belt and the hair, not the ahoge. The hair looks really cool, but as others mentioned, it appears as if she's standing under a helicopter that's just throwing wind straight down in waves. While that works, more or less, if you have no other way of indicating movement with a sprite's hair for one reason or another, you should consider having the hair mimic the most important frames of the belt if you can. This is particularly useful when the hair mimics the belt where it curls from the wind at the tips. Hair movement is rarely different from soft-cloth movement.

The original hair indicates wind direction is straight down (as mentioned by others as well as myself), so it looks very much at odds with the belt's movement (despite the belt helping to add a LOT of character). The simplest way to fix such strange movement, at least in this character's case, is to remove the spikiness from the back of the character's hair during the wind change direction (the gusts that kick the belt around to the left) to minimize the appearance of the wind blowing to the right (from the front of the character), since the wind appears to be coming from the back of the character during those gusts, in relation to the belt. I just kept the nice flowing shadows, but shaved off the spikes during the gust frames. Doing this allowed a nice transition between wind-directions thanks to the gust, and gave her hair a lot more life because it created a lot more change in her otherwise repetitive hair cycle.

Keep in mind that anytime you can add in "waves" of secondary movement and vary them between some other portion of that movement (by offsetting them in time or space), your character automatically begins to look more alive and lifelike because that's how nature works -- through cycles of change -- and very few things in nature move lock-step with one another. The more you attempt to mimic this rhythm in your art/animation, the more your stuff will attain a look and feel that appeals on a deeper level to the viewer because of their connection to this rhythm.

I hope this makes sense.


68
Pixel Art / Re: Drawing a pixel spruce
« on: May 04, 2016, 09:21:17 am »
I want to emphasize Arne's point on contrast.

You might want to consider the fact that you cannot see most of your colors on certain monitors unless you are WAY zoomed in due to the darkness of the colors and how near they are to each other in terms of absolute brightness (this is the contrast-thing Arne mentioned!) so this lack of contrast not only makes your art very dull to look at (even if the construction of your tree and your chosen colors were spot on!), it also makes it painful to look at too because one has to squint and zoom just to see the colors, leading it to look like a flat paper cut-out (fly-swatted!) onto the background with only 2 colors visible at any other zoom level!


LIGHTING YOUR ENVIRONMENT

I want to also expand on the "lighting your environment" thing, as this can be an overwhelming concept to a beginner:

As Arne suggested, you should always consider your environment's lighting -- it's very important to indicate form, as well as for any mood, tone, or even any suspension of disbelief you want to convey! -- however, at the same time, you should also consider your own artistic framing as well.

For example, if the background trees are supposed to be subdued, depending on your pixel/rendering style and chosen level of detail -- 2 to 4 colors are PLENTY enough to render BG trees while also keeping them subdued since lighting actually /creates/ form through its contrast with shadow, so the weaker your contrast between light and shadow becomes, the more subdued (but potentially also FLAT as well, so be careful with this!) your subject will also become.


VARY CONTRAST WITH PROMINENCE

If you want a thing to stand out more in your environment, you'll want to give it much more contrast than anything else. The inverse is true if you want to subdue it. Vary the contrast between things in your scene to keep things in line with how prominent you need them to be at first glance to the viewer.

69
2D & 3D / Re: 3D2D Animation Workflow Proposal
« on: April 29, 2016, 02:50:02 am »
@Indigo

That's a bad-ass animation process right there. I'm assuming you could do something similar in Toon Boom Harmony nowadays (as far as rotoscoping the 3d background, vector line widths, etc.), but to be able to do that stuff all in Blender is quite nifty! No idea, though, what all is behind that monster of a shader's setup that he uses to do the rim-lighting and auto-light the 3d background in the video, but there's a TON of those 'noodles' going on there in the first couple of frames of the BG rotoscoping portion. I'd imagine it has something to do with the averaging of the normals of the vector lines/splines of the Grease-pencil though, and their angle to the lighting widget (which I don't think actually can be done in Toon-boom Harmony yet...), but it's definitely a cool concept and probably would be great if it was something we could all have access to! Either way, thanks for sharing dude!


Regarding rendering and the concept of animation using 3d2d sprites:

As mentioned before, I'm not as familiar with shaders as many 3d artists are, but I know what makes 3d stuff tick and how that applies to games efficiency-wise in terms of what's doable in a real-time engine. That being said, I've been struggling between 3d and 2d recently, and this is mostly because of what 2d generally LOOKS like when compared to 3d mimicking the same styles -- and until seeing that Guilty Gear video I linked to above, I wasn't convinced the two could ever be married convincingly enough without A LOT of effort that's, quite frankly, very unrealistic for a small indie team:

Some examples of unrealistic indie 3d2d sprite workflows:
http://kofaniv.snkplaymore.co.jp/english/info/15th_anniv/2d_dot/creation/
http://www.siliconera.com/2012/02/09/the-art-of-blazblue-part-2-animation-phase/

On the other hand, when I saw the video in my original post above for the first time, I had the spark of an idea that it might be possible to create these sorts of 'sprites' in ultra high-resolution vector-style art as 3d models in realtime (if desired) -- and all it would take would be a proper shader (realtime would be ideal) with the proper threshold for highlights and shadows, an AO map (hand-painted), and a 3d model with a texture used only for colors and linework only (as mentioned in the video, using UV maps to control the line width!)

This simple process would obviously need to be tweaked, but if perfected, we could use 3d models directly in games (with linear animation curves) and have 3d2d 'sprites' of infinite resolution that look perfectly like cartoons, and could possibly surpass pixel art in some areas, but without the heavy workload of animating every lighting or clothing change by hand for every single frame, for every single action, and lead to much more varied environments in games that can affect the characters more, leading to more immersion and better-looking 3d cartoon-style games in general, at least in my opinion.

The shader, if created properly, could simulate actual airbrushed falloff in some cases too, leading to the same tools being used for both games as well as film-style animation (such as what Indigo posted) where all the heavy-lifting would be done for you (linework/coloring/shading/etc.) and all you'd have to do is draw over it to simulate your own style. Since Anime, at its core, is the cleanest possible cartoon rendering style (aside from pure black and white!), it would lend itself well to any further shading tweaks/styles that one could imagine, with all the form and coloring intact from the outset!

My personal interest in this is to create workflows that allow 3d models in 3d games to look 2d-rendered, especially when they use traditional 2d-oriented views (particularly side-scrolling and top-down views) so that games with gameplay akin to SNES-era RPGs and Platformers can get the high-res treatment they deserve and also have some fun camera and lighting shift effects to play with in the process. Much of what made those games great came from their limitations -- and with a limited perspective on, say, an isometric strategy game or whatever other type of game you can imagine, when mixed with 3d2d sprites (again, do reference the Guilty Gear video), with each character having their own light source, our games can again resemble the amazing visuals of games of the past -- without having to hand-paint our lighting on our 3d models to make them look as sprites (after all, lighting and shadow do change when sprites move... yet, it doesn't seem to do that on a lot of the 3d DBZ games, does it? [Tenkaichi series, I'm looking at YOU!] )

To close:
A pretty decent example of a high-res sprite that could have potentially been better-served as an 3d2d model (the rest of the iOS game looks MUCH worse! D: )


70
2D & 3D / Re: 3D2D Animation Workflow Proposal
« on: April 28, 2016, 12:25:41 am »
Only have a few moments to reply, but what I meant is painting the actual *mesh* normals, not the normal map itself (in which I am not sure how to manage even painting the normal map, as Blender's rendering system hasn't been something I've focused much on learning due to being more invested in the in-game side of things myself.)

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