AuthorTopic: [C+C] Main character for a NES-like platform game  (Read 4995 times)

Offline jjhaggar

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • ...
    • JJHaggar
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/54205.htm
    • View Profile
    • Mad Gear Games

[C+C] Main character for a NES-like platform game

on: March 16, 2016, 05:08:18 pm
Hi everyone! :)

This is my second post here, and to be honest I'm pretty nervous. This place is full of real pixel experts, some of them I am twice their age though I cannot hold a candle to them XD

I've been making pixel art for fun for a long time, but more or less a year and a half ago some friends and myself took part in a game jam (Ludum Dare 30) and made a game in a weekend (A Hole New World, an action platformer with NES looks), people seemed to like it, so we decided to improve and complete it, then my two partners (DanPelGar & Xanday) and myself founded a little company, went Greenlight, etc... Long story short, I formally started to dedicate my life to this, the dream of my life.

Actually I know this forum for some time, but as shy as I am it took me a long time to get enough courage to write here, I've always felt a little embarrassed about doing it. I am the "artist" from my dev team so I supposedly should be able to make the graphics for the game we're creating, but sometimes I think my work is not good enough (though I don't know why or what should I do to improve it), and because of that I decided that no matter how embarrassed I could feel it'll be better to seek advice and try to improve with the help of this great community's than acting as if nothing happens and continue working blindly on my own. So, please take care of me ^^

-Standing/Idle-
This is the evolution of te idle "animation" for the main character until now. I'm thinking of making a dynamic pose for him instead of this one, but I'd like to conserve this one for "alternative idle animation", which will be shown after 30 seconds if the player stays still. For the new animation I want to use the technique explained in this tutorial, let's see if I'm capable :) I'll post here the WIP when I try it


-Walking/Running-
For its making I read and tried to follow this tutorial. I'm quite happy with the cape's motion, but not too much about the rest, the problem is that I don't know how to improve it ^^U


Finally, a pair of things:
-We are using a slightly modded NES pallette I added a pair of colors to make my life a bit Easier.
-I put myself a limit of 6 colors for sprites. As far as I know, NES sprites can have 3 colors + a transparent one, but they used to combine 2 sprites to create more colorful characters. Strangely, their "combined sprites" usually had only 5 colors instead of the 6 ones that could theoretically have, but after I checked lots of games and finally found that the sprites of Ariel in Capcom's "Little Mermaid" had 6 colors, I decided to use that number instead of 5 as the limit.
-About the title of the game, yes I meant "Hole", not "Whole" XD It's a little pun/play on words we intended, cause in the game you can enter another world through holes (maybe it's not pretty good, yeah, but I fear it's already too late to change it XD).
Be happy! ^^

Offline rocifier

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 167
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [C+C] Main character for a NES-like platform game

Reply #1 on: March 16, 2016, 07:08:21 pm
Why the decision to cover his whole head up with a hood?

Offline jjhaggar

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • ...
    • JJHaggar
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/54205.htm
    • View Profile
    • Mad Gear Games

Re: [C+C] Main character for a NES-like platform game

Reply #2 on: March 16, 2016, 07:34:01 pm
Why the decision to cover his whole head up with a hood?

Our dev team were unable to fully agree about his looks, so the only way we all got to be happy was by covering his head with that hood. Besides, he looked misterious that way and we liked it :)
Be happy! ^^

Offline MysteryMeat

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1997
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • "The new alternative to q-tipping your cat!"
    • mysterymeat
    • spoiledmysterymeat
    • View Profile
    • My rad art blog!

Re: [C+C] Main character for a NES-like platform game

Reply #3 on: March 17, 2016, 12:19:26 am
Why the decision to cover his whole head up with a hood?

Our dev team were unable to fully agree about his looks, so the only way we all got to be happy was by covering his head with that hood. Besides, he looked misterious that way and we liked it :)

I'm definitely inclined to agree.
His run cycle looks a bit babyish though, for lack of a better descriptor. his forward leg doesn't feel like it extends forward enough.
PSA: use imgur
http://pixelation.org/index.php?topic=19838.0 also go suggest on my quest, cmon
MAJOR BORK TALLY: |

Offline rocifier

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 167
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [C+C] Main character for a NES-like platform game

Reply #4 on: March 17, 2016, 02:51:37 am
Why the decision to cover his whole head up with a hood?

Our dev team were unable to fully agree about his looks, so the only way we all got to be happy was by covering his head with that hood. Besides, he looked misterious that way and we liked it :)

I dunno, I feel like he went from a king/knight to a sad/depressed child because he was in a dress-up play and his parents didn't come to watch him.

Offline kilenc

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • just a kid trying to do him
    • http://pixeljoint.com/pixels/profile.asp
    • View Profile

Re: [C+C] Main character for a NES-like platform game

Reply #5 on: March 17, 2016, 03:18:13 am


following this reference, a few things stick out from your animation:

*his legs don't extend, they stay bent, so it looks like he essentially is doing those high-knee jog exercise, not running
*his body doesn't bob in time with his legs, so it looks very "floaty"

i personally like the character design, tho :)

Offline Atnas

  • Moderator
  • 0100
  • *
  • Posts: 1074
  • Karma: +2/-0
  • very daijōbs
    • paintbread
    • paintbread
    • View Profile

Re: [C+C] Main character for a NES-like platform game

Reply #6 on: March 17, 2016, 05:54:46 am
Echoing the sentiments that he looks like he's skating. I am noticing a lot people will animate by raising and lowering the character because they heard somewhere the head bobs, and then they just move the body parts around. The body moves up and down as a result of the body parts interacting with the floor. Something to keep in mind.

Offline jjhaggar

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • ...
    • JJHaggar
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/54205.htm
    • View Profile
    • Mad Gear Games

Re: [C+C] Main character for a NES-like platform game

Reply #7 on: March 17, 2016, 10:26:32 am
Thank you all for the feedback and advice! :D

I dunno, I feel like he went from a king/knight to a sad/depressed child because he was in a dress-up play and his parents didn't come to watch him.
Haha, he is certainly not an emo child :) Well, at the very least he is not a child at all XD We want him to resemble some kind of inscrutable knight/alchemist, he even hasn't a name, we call him "the Potion Master" (he attacks throwing magic potions).

I've tried a rapid test using the reference kilenc posted (I tried to maintain the number of frames being 8 so I had to obviate some ones from the reference image):


Now I like the movement a lot more, it's still pretty rough and maybe a little bit bouncy but I think the feeling is pretty good, it seems much more natural than the old one, what do you think? :)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 10:33:41 am by jjhaggar »
Be happy! ^^

Offline kilenc

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • just a kid trying to do him
    • http://pixeljoint.com/pixels/profile.asp
    • View Profile

Re: [C+C] Main character for a NES-like platform game

Reply #8 on: March 17, 2016, 10:31:35 am
looks a lot better, fluid and now has more weight/impact to it. only thing i see is that his body is too thin, it might throw off the perspective; try widening it (unless you want it to look like he turns more right to run)

Offline jjhaggar

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • ...
    • JJHaggar
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/54205.htm
    • View Profile
    • Mad Gear Games

Re: [C+C] Main character for a NES-like platform game

Reply #9 on: March 17, 2016, 10:55:15 am
Ok, I'll try widening the body a bit later (right now I gotta go for a while), but I wanted to show a fast edit I made to fix the bounciness (now I'm wondering if it was a good idea or not)


Which one do you prefer? The left (bouncy) or the right one (not bouncy)?
Be happy! ^^

Offline Kasumi

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 275
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [C+C] Main character for a NES-like platform game

Reply #10 on: March 17, 2016, 01:42:32 pm
Quote
The left (bouncy) or the right one (not bouncy)?
I prefer the left.

Quote
Strangely, their "combined sprites" usually had only 5 colors instead of the 6 ones that could theoretically have
This is... purely an informational post since you wondered aloud. I would not change your sprite based on it, you just might find it interesting.

Looking at total color counts for a sprite doesn't reveal the whole picture. You get 3 colors in a palette. Each hardware sprite (usually 8x8) can use the three colors from any one of four sprite palettes.

Your sprite has six colors. If you planned to use only two color palettes for that, black (your outline color) is only in one of them. The largest area of your sprite (arm, torso, legs, feet) is covered by black, brown, light brown, so it's likely that would be one of your color palettes. This leaves the reddish brown, red and the skin tone.

So the head uses mostly red. But anywhere that's black needs additional sprites because black is not in the palette with red. You need 4 sprites to display the black outline (and face in shadow), then another 4 sprites for the rest. 8 sprites just for the head. The cape would similarly need two sprites everywhere since it's black with red, and black is not in the red palette.

The reason many, many games only used 5 colors for sprite overlays is because their outline color was usually in multiple palettes to avoid all the doubling up. Two palettes. Three colors each. Black is in both, which leaves two colors free in both for whatever. 5 total unique colors. You can see in those Little Mermaid sprites that Ariel has two different "outline colors", which is why she's 6.

For your sprite, another way to do it is use three background palettes. Black, reddish brown, red. Black, brown, light brown. And the skin tone alone (with two colors free for other things.) Whether or not this would be a good idea depends on how many other things in your game could make use of those palettes. I'm actually working on a game where the main character alone uses three of the four palettes, and it's a huge hassle only having one left for the other stuff meant to be on screen with her.

A third way to do it is to remove one color. I'd pick the dark red brown used for the cape. Then black could be in your red/skin tone palette, but you'd still have to use six sprites to display the head as is because of the highlight (two different palettes needed in the top left), and the shadow. (two different palettes needed for the bottom right.)

Short version: To avoid doubling up sprites for the outlines, lots of games put the outline color in two palettes meaning only 5 unique colors. Your current sprite would actually use a lot of hardware sprites, and there could only be 8 sprites occupying the same horizontal pixel line before the hardware just stopped drawing more.

If it's interesting to you I could break your sprite down into hardware sprites to show some of this.

Edit: Someone on slack asked, so I made a couple images. May as well post them:


On the left is the palette setup without black in both palettes. (Also a seventh color!) On the right is a very quick edit to remove the sixth color. You'll see that there is significantly less double coverage. Not having double coverage helps with sprites on screen, and sprites per horizontal line, but also helps with tile count. There can only be 256 tiles used to display sprites in memory at any given time. Having two sprites to occupy the same area eats away at that as well.

In a game with outlined sprites, you probably want an outline color in every sprite palette. Another reason games may use the same outline color in all their palettes is for consistency.

But you could do black, brown, light brown, and dark red, red, and skintone and that'd work for a game that didn't do sprite overlays. The red baddies could use the dark red as an outline, or use it in ways that black might not look good.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 03:04:30 pm by Kasumi »
I make actual NES games. Thus, I'm the unofficial forum dealer of too much information about the NES

Offline jjhaggar

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • ...
    • JJHaggar
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/54205.htm
    • View Profile
    • Mad Gear Games

Re: [C+C] Main character for a NES-like platform game

Reply #11 on: March 17, 2016, 03:23:04 pm
I was about to ask you to please break the sprite down when I noticed you updated the post, thank you very much for the info Kasumi, it's really interesting :D

It's amazing how the NES developers had to overcome all those difficulties and on top of that made such great games ^^U Are you programming a game for the real NES? That's amazing too! Could you share a link to the project? (I'm very bad at forums, so I'm not pretty sure how to find it).

P.S: The seventh color was an old mistake, thanks for pointing it XD
« Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 11:55:30 pm by jjhaggar »
Be happy! ^^

Offline Vertigo

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 21
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: [C+C] Main character for a NES-like platform game

Reply #12 on: March 20, 2016, 07:50:09 pm

Which one do you prefer? The left (bouncy) or the right one (not bouncy)?

Hello!
I think if he's got a metal armor, he shouldn't be bouncy. Usually even when character has got a lot of muscles and he is so strong that armor doesn't affect his moves and his steps are bouncing, it looks a bit hilarious. Just imagine epic knight-king-warrior running like a ballerina.

Also Your outline has got some banding. People always say it's not good. I'm not sure about it, but You can consider this :D