[WIP] Barbarian girl

[JJ Naas]

I've been pixeling this for fun for a couple of days.. hoping I might get this actually finished. I'm working on a computer with a really crap monitor (and Photoshop 5) so there's not much I can do about colours atm. So my questions:

Anatomy. How does it look? I'd like to apply the squareness to it that I've used in the bg and in the girls hair etc. The arms are currently not square enough..
Shading. The light's coming from up left, should I darken the skin and play with highlights or draw an actual shadow? The current shading is a remnant from before I decided the direction of the light..
What else do barbarians wear? Not much, I know, but still..

15 colours, one more colour to add as well...



LATEST:

[junkboy]

Cute! Reminds me of the Snow Giants piece by Frazetta. I'd say it needs more skulls, axes, teeth-necklaces, ravens and dark-grim to qualify as properly "barbarian" though. Her ass looks really flat, so you might want to make it poke out more. Make her back and spine more defined as well, at a first glance it could look like she's facing the viewer.

[ndchristie]

Nice start.  Not sure i agree on the squareness, but it's your piece.  The rest just looks about 10 times better than the face.

I agree about the spine and I think a shadow there curving over the left buttox would help define the shape of the rear without messing with the flow of the skirt.  Also if the blade is dripping, we should see that on the ground possibly arcing around her feet.  Also I think you've demanded that she have a pretty low crack (no nice word for that is there) because of the way the skirt hangs down.

The blue on the face doesn't do it for me atm, try grey.  Dither freckles ae a bit rough, too.  In my mind I'm also laughing at the idea of a barbarian going largely unclothed into snowy mountains, with a very modern bra on.



(no, edit is not trying to be serious about certain things...)

[Mathias]

I'm all for the blocky retro style, like ptoing's chunk-funk for instance, but here it's too subtle. It feels more like a mistake, like stiff lineart. Though I do enjoy the mountains.

Lovin' nd's shadows/highlights and color edit -minus- the darker bg. A lighter bg may result in the foreground popping a bit mo'. Right now with the mountains having such a large luminosity range their drawing my eye too much. Lessen that contrast?

A cute girl character holding an ugly severed barbarian head. It don't jive for me. Is the unlikely contrast intended for shock, comedy, etc? Her clothing - she'd freeze in 3 seconds. Though, I suppose you're applying the less-armor-is-more-armor in the case of fantasy women characters. And I do like that cartoonish concept, even yet it's still a little "funny" to me. Her arms appear to be differing thicknesses.

At first I thought the barbarian head was receiving warm and cold light on either side of it's face, but it's not is it? It's the typical celtic facepaint right? I can't help but think there's a large fire burning just outside the pic, to the left.

The blood-trail implies a path, but there's no footsteps to go with it. Adding them would be logical but, also yes, add more "noise" you may not want since this style is so minimal. I'd probably ditch the blood drops falling from the blade.

Some falling snow perhaps?

Compositionally thinking, it seems your negative space should be flipped - give it less hill and more sky (pan the camera up, keep the dimensions).

Got an unused green there? Is this a pre-made palette?

[JJ Naas]

Thanks for the feedback, that gives me enough to work on to improve the pic.

Cute! Reminds me of the Snow Giants piece by Frazetta. I'd say it needs more skulls, axes, teeth-necklaces, ravens and dark-grim to qualify as properly "barbarian" though. Her ass looks really flat, so you might want to make it poke out more. Make her back and spine more defined as well, at a first glance it could look like she's facing the viewer.

Yes, I've been looking at several Frazetta pieces while doing this. I can't probably use the directly-from-above light source that Frazetta uses to bring out the roundness of asses, but alrighty then, I'll make it bigger.

Nice start.  Not sure i agree on the squareness, but it's your piece.  The rest just looks about 10 times better than the face.

I'll ditch the squareness if I can't get it to work.. I'll try first though.

I agree about the spine and I think a shadow there curving over the left buttox would help define the shape of the rear without messing with the flow of the skirt.  Also if the blade is dripping, we should see that on the ground possibly arcing around her feet.  Also I think you've demanded that she have a pretty low crack (no nice word for that is there) because of the way the skirt hangs down.

The blue on the face doesn't do it for me atm, try grey.  Dither freckles ae a bit rough, too.  In my mind I'm also laughing at the idea of a barbarian going largely unclothed into snowy mountains, with a very modern bra on.



(no, edit is not trying to be serious about certain things...)

Nice edit.. subtle but it works. Thanks.

I'm all for the blocky retro style, like ptoing's chunk-funk for instance, but here it's too subtle. It feels more like a mistake, like stiff lineart. Though I do enjoy the mountains.

Lovin' nd's shadows/highlights and color edit -minus- the darker bg. A lighter bg may result in the foreground popping a bit mo'. Right now with the mountains having such a large luminosity range their drawing my eye too much. Lessen that contrast?

Ok, I'll take a look at the bg/foreground luminosity range once I get back to my own computer with a better monitor.

A cute girl character holding an ugly severed barbarian head. It don't jive for me. Is the unlikely contrast intended for shock, comedy, etc? Her clothing - she'd freeze in 3 seconds. Though, I suppose you're applying the less-armor-is-more-armor in the case of fantasy women characters. And I do like that cartoonish concept, even yet it's still a little "funny" to me. Her arms appear to be differing thicknesses.

It's not meant to be comedic or shocking.. just using the silly barbarian themes. Wearing sensible clothes isn't very barbarian-like. But I'm trying to think of something else she'd wear.. fur gauntlets or something... well, junkboy already gave me some good ideas.

At first I thought the barbarian head was receiving warm and cold light on either side of it's face, but it's not is it? It's the typical celtic facepaint right? I can't help but think there's a large fire burning just outside the pic, to the left.

The blood-trail implies a path, but there's no footsteps to go with it. Adding them would be logical but, also yes, add more "noise" you may not want since this style is so minimal. I'd probably ditch the blood drops falling from the blade.

Some falling snow perhaps?

Compositionally thinking, it seems your negative space should be flipped - give it less hill and more sky (pan the camera up, keep the dimensions).

Got an unused green there? Is this a pre-made palette?

It's not facepaint.. just placeholder shading. I'll fix it. The green's been so far used only in her eyes.

[ndchristie]

Wearing sensible clothes isn't very barbarian-like.

OT but this struck me as funny.  Are we talking barbarians in the original sense (non-greek-speaking peoples of the classical world), common sense (northern european and asian tribes whose social structures were framed around subsistence farmers and a warrior elite), or some other sense which somehow includes peoples that can actually afford to dress frivolously (something generally found only in "civilized" or "advanced" societies).

Wearing sensible clothes isn't very Frazetta like is probably what you were getting at.  Difference is big .



I would also suggest framing forms with light and shade before you adjust proportions.

[JJ Naas]

OT but this struck me as funny.  Are we talking barbarians in the original sense (non-greek-speaking peoples of the classical world), common sense (northern european and asian tribes whose social structures were framed around subsistence farmers and a warrior elite), or some other sense which somehow includes peoples that can actually afford to dress frivolously (something generally found only in "civilized" or "advanced" societies).

Wearing sensible clothes isn't very Frazetta like is probably what you were getting at.  Difference is big .

Well yes, I meant the cliched Conan/Frazetta -influenced barbarians, not the actual historical "barbarians".

I would also suggest framing forms with light and shade before you adjust proportions.

You mean, not starting by drawing line art first? I wouldn't normally do line art first but I cant't use my Wacom atm. and the line art approach is all I can do using a mouse.


EDIT: Damn this monitor! Can't wait to do some serious colour adjusting with my own computer. (I'm currently staying at my folks' place for Xmas and using their old PC.)

[ndchristie]

It's a mistake to think of things only in terms of line and fill.  both are subservient to form.  Form can be brought out in a number of ways, but it should always be firmed up before finely dawn lines or carefully placed colors are even approached.

Now, stop messing around with lines and make sure that girl's ass is firm!

(couldn't resist)

[Tourist]

I think there's a problem with the spine of the original piece.  

The shoulders have twist, but no tilt, and the hips have tilt but no twist.  This is ok, but the lines in between don't transition well.

Her left side has a lower hip and a shoulder turned farther away than the right side, but the angle of the waist is sharper.  I think it should be the other way around.  Also, her rump should be the major mass that pushes the left torso line back out from the waist, with the curve of the hip just visible.  Does that make sense?

Here's a quick edit.  Mostly the torso lines, although I had to move the head 1 pixel to the right for it to work.  Also changed the line of the neck.  She still needs shading to make the back less flat.



My two cents,
Tourist

Edited to make the comments more clear.

[Manupix]

Tourist's edit looks much lighter than the original, probably because of a similar strange issue I have with this piece: when I download it, it does look lighter than in the browser.
NDChristie's edit is not affected in this way, and I've never seen this behavior in pixels before.
No idea about either cause or fix.

[Tourist]

Hey, that is strange.  I wasn't trying to adjust the colors, just the pixels.

Edit: Found the answer.  The PNG format can optionally specify a gamma and a chromaticity parameter.  The source files include this and the browser tries to interpret it correctly.  The paint program I was using (KDE paint) seems to ignore these bits and also saves the edited file without them.

Tourist

[NaCl]

Looks like some PNG gamma correction problems. I'm guessing that JJ has probably modified his monitor gamma, and whatever program he is using to make pixel art with is sophisticated enough to notice, and modify the gamma correction value. Something like that.

Anyway, I like the piece, especially the angularity. However, I wouldn't go overboard with that idea and try and make everything totally angular. I personally think that the angularity of everything works well with the organic forms of the body.

[JJ Naas]

Tourist: Thanks, that was a nice edit. I always have trouble with hips.

Here's a new very rough WIP. Colour count's gone down to 13. The blade's been adjusted. I added some shadows and highlights. I gave her a bigger bottom and utilized the Frazetta directly-from-the-above butt light. I've yet to add more barbarian regalia.

Most obviously I got rid of the squareness. The problem is that black outlines work ok with the square style but not so well with this. Hair looks jagged and messy etc. So.. damn. Do I have to get rid of the outlines as well? 

[ndchristie]

EEEP!!

Calibrate your monito ASAP.

Also new rear outline isn't working so well.  and some jaggy lights?

Take a second look!

[JJ Naas]

EEEP!!
Calibrate your monito ASAP.

Too saturated? I'm back on my home PC and the monitor should be fairly well calibrated (considering it's old and crap) but I've got to wait till monday so I can check it with the workplace computer that's got a good, well calibrated monitor.

Also new rear outline isn't working so well.  and some jaggy lights?
Take a second look!

Everything's a bit jaggy atm, since I'm undecided about the outlines and stuff like do I have to use antialiasing.

[WM]

Your highlights are way too strong atm; they look as though they are pure white. Try toning them down just a tad and working some of your skintone (after hue-shifting) into them.

[JJ Naas]

Oh well.. here's the latest.

[Malor]

I'd say the highlights could use at least one buffer shade, they're still a little intense. However, the peach on the ice looks fantastic, it gives it a nice.. sunsetty feel about the piece. Also, the shading on the butt looks a little odd.. I don't think the highlights are necessary. Anyways, I think how this is turning out, keep it up

[Helm]

I wouldn't suggest warm highlight on the far rocks, it makes them punch through to the foreground.

[Jad]

I wouldn't mind warm highlights, but warm skin-colored highlights? I wouldn't mind that color changing.

(it really is vaguely skin-orangey-pinkish)

[politopo]

In my opinion, lighting is not consistent: light on top seems to come from the far (like it was if a sun was on top of the background mountain) while light on the back and legs seem to come from behind the viewer. Try to fix it.

[Tourist]

I think the latest version has much better lines on the torso than the original.  The softer highlights are a much better choice for the skin tones.

The figure is kind of stuck between two styles, the original simplified style and a rounder volumetric style.  They are both good choices, but they don't mix well.

If you want to keep to the original simplified style, then you could remove the highlights on the figure altogether.  This means the shadow on the lower back needs to be smaller and also convey both the lower edge of the ribcage and the curve of the hips/buttocks.  Not easy, but it saves you a color that can be used elsewhere.

If you want to keep the highlights you'll need to splash them across the shoulders as well, and adjust the lighting everywhere else on the figure.  It really changes the basic style though, so I'm not sure that this is what you want.

In either case, I think the midtone in the back should extend down past the straps, and the bottom edge of the shadow in the lower back should have a curve. 

Here's an edit.  I'm not sure I got the curves right, but hopefully it shows you what I mean.  Original, with highlights, without highlights.  I only worked on the area between neck and hips (and the face, but I'm terrible at faces, so ignore that).



Hope this is useful,
Tourist

[Helm]

I personally don't see the use for all that outlining. I think you can keep it cartoony even if you do light-dependent contours like in the edit above.