AuthorTopic: wee green fatso  (Read 11063 times)

Offline st0ven

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 200
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • spriteart

wee green fatso

on: June 10, 2006, 02:23:29 am
i dont get to post a lot of art as of late unfortunately, i hope to change that but im still not in a position to have a lot of free time to do the kindof art i like in my free time, but i thought id share these miserably tiny animations of some abominable creatures shrunk down to ungodly small size. I dont profess the animation to be perfect, the face glitches kindof in a strange manner and it could go through another pass of tweaking, but id rather spend that time on making something new and exciting!

« Last Edit: June 10, 2006, 02:25:13 am by st0ven »

Offline Darien

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 435
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • ...nine...ten...draw!
    • View Profile

Re: wee green fatso

Reply #1 on: June 10, 2006, 02:47:33 am
Very nice, st0ven.  I won't go into in depth critique if you're moving one... not much I see that could use tweaking besides the way his right leg goes out when he walks.  Love the twisting motion on the hammer mace thing. 

I hope you do spend that time on something new to show us  :)

Offline Xion

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1551
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • FourbitFriday

Re: wee green fatso

Reply #2 on: June 10, 2006, 04:42:41 am
I've got nothing but praise for this.
(except the walk anim's legs, but since you say you'd rather leave it be...)
I've got nothing but praise for this!  ;D

Offline big brother

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 341
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • herculeanpixel.com
    • View Profile
    • Portfolio Site

Re: wee green fatso

Reply #3 on: June 10, 2006, 05:11:36 am
I would take out some of the inbetween frames on the strike to emphasize the power of the blow. To further enhance this effect, I'd add several frames at the end showing the weapon bouncing off the target before settling at a relaxed position.

Offline ptoing

  • 0101
  • ****
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: wee green fatso

Reply #4 on: June 10, 2006, 08:43:12 am
The walkanim has no weight whatsoever. It looks like he is suspended in the air and is just moving his legs, i get no feeling of contact.
I think this is mainly because he does not put his feet down on the staps forward. I can still see the underside of his feet and then they already go back. I say fix it and you have a nice animation.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Dhaos

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 231
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Crystal Tech Studios

Re: wee green fatso

Reply #5 on: June 10, 2006, 12:34:23 pm
Interesting lil buggers. The attack is really nice, I'm having fun watching all the tiny details move about. The walk's movement is good, but it seems too smooth, as if he's gently gliding about.

Offline Gil

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1543
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Too square to be hip
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/475.htm
    • View Profile
    • My Portfolio

Re: wee green fatso

Reply #6 on: June 10, 2006, 01:56:02 pm
I don't like the walk anim. The legs look moderately fine due to the loin cloth, but actually, they completely miss a realistic walk. Otherwise nice pieces of course. I agree that the turning of the club looks cool...

Offline ndchristie

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 2426
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile

Re: wee green fatso

Reply #7 on: June 10, 2006, 01:57:28 pm
looks good to me, except for the walking animation being a glider, which ive been told from my own works is bad and i can kinda see it.  i actually like the way the way the hammer falls slowly and doesnt bounce, i think it gives it more size/weight.
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Turbo

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 413
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • less than meets the eye
    • View Profile
    • Pixeljoint TurboAccount

Re: wee green fatso

Reply #8 on: June 10, 2006, 04:26:24 pm
I agree on his left feet gliding, looks like you did some copy+paste there instead of redrawing the correct bending of the knee, UNLESS it's a limp, which in that case, is correct.
Also, the motion blur on the blow makes it look like it's actually decelerating instead of accelerating, i'd just take it off. If you want to use motion blur, it's more apropriate to go "initial position frame - intermediate motion blurred position - final, stopped position" rather than suddenly include it in a movement at a slower speed.

Offline st0ven

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 200
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • spriteart

Re: wee green fatso

Reply #9 on: June 10, 2006, 05:19:41 pm
i think that these are all good and true comments that are well observed.

firstly, i certainly agree with the walk. lets say you are this big fat green thing and you weigh close to a metric ton. When one leg sloshes forward in a powerful, broad range of motion, the planting of the foot (heel first) would precede a frame that illustrates all the weight being shifted to the newly, flat, planted foot, and then for effect, an additional frame showing the leg and body slightly buckling under the weight of his own body would really complete that 'damn im a metric ton'  :D.  this piece was meant to be a test for functional art assets, of which the platform strictly demands "as little as possible", heheh.. so i had originally put the feet planting down at the end (though with no reverberation of weight), but being that i have to use the same previous frame to pull the leg back (no room for add'l frames), it looked awkward having him angle his ankle, then plant his foot down level with the ground, then pick his ankle back up in an angled position to bring it back under his body, so it sort of pushed me to use the 'im gliding' FFT ish solution for animation. (not that any of this excuses anything, i certainly would like to have been able to take it that far, just explaining the circumstances so it doesnt appear that i was just being lazy).

big bro: for the strike anim... id like to try that out, to take out the last blurred frame befoe the club sinks into the ground perhaps, and just make the swing 'woosh' broader perhaps.

turbo: the animation was blocked out frame by frame and then used pro motion for detail transition and motion, so there certainly wasnt any cut n pasting that i can recall to any excess that would affect, in my opinion, the motion or quality/fluidity of that motion.  However, i can certainly see that deceleration that you mention at the end of the motion, which i think is caused by the mid-arc not travelling far enough in that particular frame perhaps and the extra frame inserted to compensate before the club rests? to describe the motion i would expect, i would think that there is 1 frame for the 'cocked' position to swing, 1 'initial' movement of the arms to get the accelleration of the weapon going (this might look pretty close in position to the 'cocked' frame. perhaps there should be a more exaggerated body lead that indicates all his might is going into this :P... then the blurred frame which travells most of the distance, then finally the rest frame.  given this observation id be interested to see what it looks like without that frame before the 'thud' frame.

oh just to clarify, that is in fact a shield strapped to his waist that dangles between his legs, not a loin cloth  :D 

thanks for the comments so far

Offline ptoing

  • 0101
  • ****
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: wee green fatso

Reply #10 on: June 10, 2006, 05:24:31 pm
You still could get a way better result with nice weight in the same amount of frames. You should have made proper keyframes before inbetweening, i guess you have not done that.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline ndchristie

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 2426
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile

Re: wee green fatso

Reply #11 on: June 10, 2006, 06:36:31 pm
1-2-3-4-5-4-3-2 isn't the best way of doing an animation; i think your actually better off with 1-2-3-4-5-3 if you must only use 5 frames.  gives you more room to work with
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Andy Tran

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 553
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • The City of Andy Tran

Re: wee green fatso

Reply #12 on: June 10, 2006, 08:25:58 pm
 The walk animation looks fine. I'd leave it that way. Since the monster's weight could be great, he should walk pretty slow. The sprite is overall good. Keep pixeling St0ven, I would like to see more new work coming out.

Offline Aleiav

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 141
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • I like my coffee black just like my metal.
    • View Profile
    • Gothiclola (dot) Net

Re: wee green fatso

Reply #13 on: June 10, 2006, 11:03:30 pm
The walking animation looks kind of slow. :P

But otherwise, it looks really awesome so far.  ;D

Offline Conzeit

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1448
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Camus
    • conzeit
    • View Profile
    • CONZEIT

Re: wee green fatso

Reply #14 on: June 12, 2006, 01:06:22 am
steve =D

man, did you forget that one time with tsugumo when the 3 frame walk of ninja gaiden was analyzed? uneven numbered walks are all about chosing one of the steps and emphasizing it.

in the case of ninja gaiden as it is a sidescroller the emphasized step was the one on the foreground because it's the one which the viewer notices the most.

but in the case of a iso walk it is the background step because it is the most readable one, because it's clearly represented in the sillouethe

and for all that is holy and low-res, why oh why did you use a stance frame in the walk anim? you should've used the extra frame (the one that makes 4 into 5) to give the sense of weight and contact to the background step...it's not really about tweaking and fine tuning, it's all about knowing what you're doing beforehand.

and......timing! where is the timing? how much a frame lasts can make the whole anim...

the attack...I think you'd know what aproach I'd take on this, I would completly deform his body in the few blurred frames, and cut down on the number of them, the point of woosh frames is to signify very fast movement so there's no need to fade out the woosh, it's much better to have a recoil frame than to fade out the woosh

why all the detail anyway?...I mean, not that I mind but at real size you can barely see blobs of blurred light, I think only the general shape the coloring and the loincloth get salvaged. none of the detail really comes trough

EDIT:heheh....I really dont know what you were thinking with that stepping pose of the background leg, as soon as I opened it up in ggale I could hear the

BOING
sound effect on my head, were you going for super ogrio bros or something? :p

anyway, an edit:
« Last Edit: June 12, 2006, 02:16:40 am by Conceit »

Offline Turbo

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 413
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • less than meets the eye
    • View Profile
    • Pixeljoint TurboAccount

Re: wee green fatso

Reply #15 on: June 12, 2006, 01:12:35 pm
Here's an edit which adresses the "skiing" comments issues:

Yousa: Meesa:

I edited only the leg on the right, to give it a sense of stomping, and of bending the foot and knee as it moves back and propels the body forward. Before, you had the walking movement only at the hips, the feet and knees were permanently bent at like a 30 to 45 degree angle and the hips did all the work, but that's not right, oh noes it aint. This caused the weird swinging effect we were whining about.
There's a slight issue in my edit: it looks like he's propelling his leg outward as it moves back. I think this was partly because in your first version, i kinda think this was what was happening, intentional or not. And partly because it's a quick edit :)

I see that Conceit has also edited sections concerning these issues, but he's lost most of the sense of weight, and my edit is more complete in keeping your original movement intention. And because it's mine HAHHAAHA

I love the detail and sub-pixel movement you put into these, but it's almost like it's very strong in advanced techniques but lacking in certain basic ones (that timing thing Conceit suggested would help verily. I'd advise adding some secondary arms motion, in case you decide to pursue frames in which he stops due to the stomp, so it doesn't look so static).

Offline Conzeit

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1448
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Camus
    • conzeit
    • View Profile
    • CONZEIT

Re: wee green fatso

Reply #16 on: June 12, 2006, 01:18:18 pm
there is no reversing in yours turbo, had st0ven actually used 8 separate frames he wouldnt have had a problem expressing weight at all, the problem has always been there's only 5 real frames to use

I did actually apply timing to my edit, I think that's what you're hinting at when you say mine doesnt have weight because it moves faster, I could just as well increase the frame delay....
« Last Edit: June 12, 2006, 01:23:42 pm by Conceit »

Offline Turbo

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 413
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • less than meets the eye
    • View Profile
    • Pixeljoint TurboAccount

Re: wee green fatso

Reply #17 on: June 12, 2006, 01:24:39 pm
Oh, i didn't get that it was supposed to be done in 5 frames. Disregard that, then.

Offline st0ven

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 200
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • spriteart

Re: wee green fatso

Reply #18 on: June 13, 2006, 12:47:44 am
great great great...

ca..er.. conceit, i totally have NOT forgotten that thread btw, the three frame run cycle that fooled everyone in the world! what magic!

first off, i really enjoy and appreciate your edit and i get a much better sense of , well, the figure _Standing_ rather than squat gliding. embarrasingly (and unbelieving as you may be)... due to the sever constraints this concept was developed for, the motion would actually be cardinal, not isometric (left right and somehow up down)... which is an embarrasing admission.

i think the critique of this piece well overshot what it was originally intended for, and thats not to say that i had done anything 'on purpose', in fact i think there are a lot of good points in this that ive already considered for when the time comes that i might have to make many more of these, but regardless, im glad they were pointed out because i know for a fact, whether for this project or another, im going to, in fact, be doing much isometric character animation and these details were an awesome point of reference for me to pick up on.

Turbo, i think you are right, there is a bit too much attention to detail of the texture (which may or may not be lost, ca...damnit, conceit, depending on the monitor it is viewed from) without enough thought put into the motion... but i can tell you the intent of making it look weightless, despite the detail or number of frames in the attack anim, was intentional from the getgo.... all while trying to make it look as 'realistic' as i could get it.... meaning that this peice in particular would never expect to be anything more than 'iconic' in its practice, though ive tried to push that envelope to make it look a bit less iconic (once again this doesnt go to say that i didnt love the critique and especially the edits).

camus, turbo, thanks for the points explained with sincerity ^_^.

OH!! speaking of weightless animations... this just came to mind... and is completely off topic... anyone ever play/see atelier iris (sp) from nippon ichi? holy smokes do those guys FLOAT!

Offline Conzeit

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1448
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Camus
    • conzeit
    • View Profile
    • CONZEIT

Re: wee green fatso

Reply #19 on: June 13, 2006, 01:47:27 am
yes, yes , you dont have to tell me that you cant use this for this specific project I know how it goes steve =).Plus I've always thought C&C that can be used later is always better than the C&C that is only good for one piece.

and you can call me whatever you want, Camus, Baybaybom, Camilo, Cauzilu, Caracal, Conceit.....I just thought I'd use that as my nick for now because I just really like the word sounds and the way it went from it's greek origin "conceptus" to being a synonim of arrogance.....

heh, the BOING pose makes a little bit more sense now that you explain that it would move horizontally, you could have even done a fightgame style walk where they're just skidding sideways.

atelier whata?....I dont know what you are talking about at all, but it IS a common practice among rpgs......and what really really gets me is they regularly use freaking STANCE frames for walk anims.


« Last Edit: June 13, 2006, 05:57:04 am by Conceit »

Offline Crazy Asian Gamer

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 243
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Guess who follows trends?
    • View Profile
    • CAG's NONEXISTANT Page... of DOOM

Re: wee green fatso

Reply #20 on: June 13, 2006, 03:30:14 am
OH!! speaking of weightless animations... this just came to mind... and is completely off topic... anyone ever play/see atelier iris (sp) from nippon ichi? holy smokes do those guys FLOAT!
Yeah!
It disappointed me too! The stills looked so nice, and it was the first 2D game being developed for the newer home consoles I've seen in ages... an RPG no less. I guess I pine a bit for the ol' SNES-type RPGs, haha.  ::)
I suspect all the floatiness has something to do with Japanese culture...

Offline Conzeit

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1448
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Camus
    • conzeit
    • View Profile
    • CONZEIT

Re: wee green fatso

Reply #21 on: June 13, 2006, 05:58:50 am
in the sense that the bulk of them tend to go with set traditions and not think over what's tired and true? yeah I agree :p

Offline CrumbBread

  • 0001
  • *
  • Posts: 92
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: wee green fatso

Reply #22 on: June 13, 2006, 01:59:45 pm
Not bad. You know the right leg kind of looks like it's sliding, though?










 ::)