AuthorTopic: Feature 03 - Mermaid  (Read 55183 times)

Offline Mirre

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Feature 03 - Mermaid

on: October 28, 2006, 01:06:51 am
Been working on this for some days now. I just couldn't stop when I started it. I've even been seeing pixels and thinking about dithering when watching TV in the breaks I've had when cooking and eating stuff and so on :crazy:

I can say that I have already learnt lots by doing this piece, especially the tree and the water was killing me. Please give me some C&C. I always appreciate that. Hope you guys will like it! Oh, and do think it'd look good with a frame of some sort around it? Perhaps with shells, kelp and fishbones or something.

24 colours:





LATEST!!!:
With and without frame:
« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 08:00:11 am by ptoing »

Offline Eric Stayburn

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #1 on: October 28, 2006, 01:13:28 am
its spelt colors geez.

Offline Mirre

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #2 on: October 28, 2006, 01:15:12 am
Seriously. If you don't have anything more serious to write here than about my spelling gtfoff my topic. And you CAN spell it colours. That's UK English. Know your stuff.

Offline Alex

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #3 on: October 28, 2006, 01:16:18 am
its spelt colors geez.
post something useful next time, child. spelling colours with a u is also acceptable. its a how we spell it in canada. so dont think you are so smart next time, idiot.

Mirre, this is so cute...it really is. I love all of the colours, but...the texture used on the tree and everything doesnt exactly match that of the mermaids scales and the rock shes on...just my opinion though, overall its a really nice piece.
alexander

Offline Eric Stayburn

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #4 on: October 28, 2006, 01:18:40 am
I'm not an idiot you smelly hippo. I'm gonna go play yu-gi-oh, holla.

Offline Dhaos

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #5 on: October 28, 2006, 01:24:50 am
In europe... I thought it was spelled colour? Anyways cute piece Mirre, the colors are very nice. Those fruit are making me very hungry... *wonders what they taste like.* I love the way you shaded the tree leaves and trunk. Nice and cartoony, again excellent color selection.

Crits:
-you might consider either completely dithering the mermaid or just keeping it block-colored (the body for example as opposed to the hair)
-the fins seem odd (almost unfinished-like), the scales of the mermaid are detailed, while the rest of her isn't
-the reeds should be a bit more washed out (blending with the backround more) given the time of day, tint them more blue perhaps
-consider adding some light-blue or white highlights to the water to form a shiny reflection or to emulate small crests int he water

Crits aside, that piece is so cute. I like it.

Offline Mirre

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #6 on: October 28, 2006, 01:42:58 am
Thanks for the great C&C guys!

clr: The styles clash a little, but I did not know how to unify them better. I did want the rock to look like a rock, and the moss was kind of hard to make it look like moss if I didn't dither it. Aaand, I think I got a bit carried away with the scales on the mermaids tail. I just love sparkles  ^-^

Dhaos: The fruit are golden apples (every fairytale have them ;)) Did you mean that I should remove the dithering in the hair? I'm not quite sure myself that it looks good, honestly, but without it the colours doesn't blend so well.
Oh yeah, the fins probably looks unfinished because I haven't highlighted the upper parts of it for some reason (I must be tired, haha).
I'll see what I can do about the highlight in the water and the browns (assuming you meant them with "reeds"), but they belong to the same ramp as the gold, so I'll see how it comes out.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2006, 01:44:45 am by Mirre »

Offline Cow

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #7 on: October 28, 2006, 01:53:49 am
I like this, it's quite cute [there must be an echo in here]. Especially the bird. Now for some crits.

-Her head seems to be moving independently from her hair. Like, she's tilting her head but her hair is facing the other direction.
-The AAing on the... reeds[?] doesn't seem to work too well.

I've always wondered if golden apples taste more like an apple or more like gold? Excuse me while I ponder this.

Offline Keops

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #8 on: October 28, 2006, 01:58:28 am
I think this is a very nice piece, very solid overall, the colorful palette works really well and kinda takes me back to the colorful 16-bit era :) ah those days...

Anyway, aside from some things Dhaos and mccow28 mentioned the only thing that I think needs my crit is the darkest shade you used, the selout in some places, like the stone for instance, look kind of broken. You might try toning this down a little bit to smooth things out a bit more, although it's not a big deal, this piece has a lot of contrast and texture thanks to the dithering so it's not that big of a deal.

I love it! :)

UPDATE: Upon further inspection and looking more and more to it at 1x I think it's nothing of a deal at all, it looks good enough, I was checking the piece with a lot of zoom so you can forget my crit. Good job! I need to inspect it more carefully to see if I find anything else on it.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2006, 02:00:15 am by Keops »

Offline D39

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #9 on: October 28, 2006, 02:31:45 am
It looks crisp I love it.

I think you tied the whole thing together really well with the colors you used.  The only thing that feels a bit awkward is the bottom of the tail, it breaks the mood a little for me.

EDIT: As for a frame, I don't think it needs one. The piece is really great on its own, with alot of style. I think a frame might just take away some of the focus.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2006, 02:33:26 am by D39 »

Offline Godslayer

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #10 on: October 28, 2006, 03:33:35 am
Try replacing the black where rock meets water with a light color and see how that looks.
How long can the floor creak before it loses its voice?

Offline rabidbaboy

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #11 on: October 28, 2006, 12:48:12 pm
I also think that the fins look out of place. I'm not really sure how to fix this, but I'm sure there are plenty others who can help in that. It just screams "I GOT LAZY HERE" for me.:S

That said, very cheery and colorful piece. I really like the textures on the trunk and the stone. :)
"Baboy" is Filipino for pig.

Offline 8bitty

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #12 on: October 28, 2006, 01:53:33 pm
i love it mirre, but i don't really think the face looks very... feminine?

edit:


added nose
changed mouth
reduced some of the aa
reflected small amount of light onto forehead
some other small things on facial area

apart from that i think it's great  :y:
« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 08:00:41 am by ptoing »

Offline ptoing

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #13 on: October 28, 2006, 02:50:17 pm
Ok I took the time to make a major edit, just because I like this so much and I feel you could improve in a few areas.
Time to break out of your comfort zone!

I think the whole thing iss too outliney and the selout all over the place breaks things into little solitary cardboard cutouts, I feel as if i can take the whole treestrunk out of the picture leaving a hole showing a woodpanel on the underside like like in those kids wood puzzles, same goes for other pieces, like the top of the tree and esp the little stone.

I removed all the black and selout from the outlines, there is some black left but not much.
I aa'ed the objects to the background so they would fit in nicely .
Merged two colours into one (body and apples)
Added a new darker colour for the stone which I also used in the tree. Colourcount is still 24.
added some highlights to various things, leaves, treetrunk and so on.
Gave the poor lass a proper mouth and nose and changed the shape of the face a tiny bit.
made the wrist of the supporting hand a bit slimmer
Added some little highlights, waverings on the water (needs more on other objects as well)
Fixed aa on 2 of the reeds and gave one reed a proper shape, reeds are longish and have a bit of the stem at the top most of the time.
Also added some highlight/texture to the bigger reed to give it a feel of fuzzyness.
Pronounced shadows here and there and changed palette a little to unify it a bit more, could be taken further.

Yours -- Mine


I suspect that you always do very clean lineart first and then you add in colour, other than that I can not explain to myself how you end up with this massive amount of Selout. I would suggest to you for your next piece like this not to do any lineart, but instead try to work in shapes.
Block out fields of colour and work from that. In nature there are no outlines and in case you want to do something really cartoony work the outlines into the image instead of breaking them up with selout.

You also seem to only use 1 pixel aa, as in abcd, but it can also be aabbcc or something else.
Antialiasing is always an approximation to fake higher resolution/greater smoothness.


I think if you would take these pointers into account and would perhaps not think so much of "sprites" when you pixel you could advance quite a bit further.

Keep it up  :y:
« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 08:02:41 am by ptoing »

There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Faceless

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #14 on: October 28, 2006, 03:04:00 pm


I'd go for something more like this.
I think Ptoing's loses the tranquility of the scene, and those lips are just ugly.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 08:03:18 am by ptoing »

Offline Helm

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #15 on: October 28, 2006, 03:09:54 pm
I thought the lips in Ptoing's edit made it 3x better in terms of characterization. Small edit on rocks. Reflections, tints, took a color out.

« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 08:04:28 am by ptoing »

Offline Tisha

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #16 on: November 02, 2006, 09:08:12 pm
I thought the lips in Ptoing's edit made it 3x better in terms of characterization. Small edit on rocks. Reflections, tints, took a color out.



/agree

one of the most remarkable feminine features in a woman, are the lips. I think Ptoing really captured that sensuality and beauty that a woman must have.alos I share the opinion of not using black but a very dark color.
I also have to say that I love that piece allot. she is very curvilinear, very feminine body, and the face edit was the final touch. Mirre, amazing job! I hope that if I eat my veggies and pixel hard, I'll be as well skilled as you are <3
« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 08:06:45 am by ptoing »
Meow

Tisha

Offline Player1

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #17 on: November 03, 2006, 05:52:07 am
IMHO, original smile fit look and feel of picture ideally.

Offline Toby

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #18 on: November 03, 2006, 06:41:07 am
I'm going to join the choir and say that I absolutely love this :)

ptoing brought some good point up, like the black outline between the rock and the water, ripples in the water, and the mermaids lips. Proper lips certainly give personality to the character.

But, I did like the darker vibrant colors of the original instead of the softer ones in the edit, with the exception of the bluer shade on the lowest level of leaves. I also feel that some improved selout would have been the way to go on instead of heavy AA. Visible outlines seems to be a trademark in your pieces, and at least I think it fits their cartoonesque feel better. In the original version the selout seemed to be a bit choppy, but I'm sure you can improve :) 

Offline ptoing

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #19 on: November 03, 2006, 12:02:02 pm
SeloutTM is always choppy.

There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Toby

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #20 on: November 03, 2006, 03:08:45 pm
SeloutTM is always choppy.

How do you mean?

Offline pkmays

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #21 on: November 03, 2006, 03:35:51 pm
Selout/inverse anti-aliasing are only required if the sprite and background are separate objects. For a piece like this, I think AA is the way to go.

I am missing the black outlines too. It's all about aesthetics, but I think the piece gained something with the additional highlights and detailing, but lost something when the crisp outlines where blued up.

Offline Feron

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #22 on: November 03, 2006, 03:55:44 pm
I am missing the black outlines too. It's all about aesthetics, but I think the piece gained something with the additional highlights and detailing, but lost something when the crisp outlines where blued up.

I totaly disagree with you there.  We could argue about this for hours and in the end it boils down to personal preference.

Absolutley awesome, the only thing that puts me off is the tail (as with many others). 

Offline Helm

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #23 on: November 03, 2006, 04:09:21 pm
Quote
Selout/inverse anti-aliasing are only required if the sprite and background are separate objects. For a piece like this, I think AA is the way to go.

Don't forget, kids, pkmays is the devil! He invented the term - though not the practise - of what we refer to as selout. Hopefully the holy crusade of counter-propaganda that we've had in full effect for the last few years will undo the damage to the pixelly universal subconscious that making your sprites look like cardboard cutouts is a good idea :P

I can just see Tsugumo going in de-lurk mode to team up with pkmays to battle us over how 'hey, capcom does it!'

Offline Indigo

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #24 on: November 03, 2006, 04:17:36 pm
helm, untill recently I always thought that simply coloured-changing (according to light) outlines was also considered sel-out.  In a way, it is, because your "selectively outlining" certain areas of your sprite with different colours (solid line, not choppy).  If that be the case, then sel-out could be both clean *and* choppy.  But since i learn that it's not, I say that coloured outlines deserves a pixel-term.  It deserves it much more than the choppy sel-out does.

Offline Helm

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #25 on: November 03, 2006, 05:00:56 pm
I used to say selselout (selective-selective-outlining) for what you describe, but in the end it's a common rendering practise that isn't specific to pixel art at all as far as I can tell.

Offline Feron

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #26 on: November 03, 2006, 05:05:41 pm
helm, untill recently I always thought that simply coloured-changing (according to light) outlines was also considered sel-out.  In a way, it is, because your "selectively outlining" certain areas of your sprite with different colours (solid line, not choppy).  If that be the case, then sel-out could be both clean *and* choppy.  But since i learn that it's not, I say that coloured outlines deserves a pixel-term.  It deserves it much more than the choppy sel-out does.

anti-outlining!

Offline ptoing

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #27 on: November 03, 2006, 05:37:07 pm
Nah, i am with Helm on this one, there needs not be a seperate term for this as it's not pixel specific. It's simply light- and/or weight dependantly shaded outlines.

enough with the derailing tho.

There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline pkmays

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #28 on: November 03, 2006, 06:07:08 pm
[derail]

Quote from: Helm
I can just see Tsugumo going in de-lurk mode to team up with pkmays to battle us over how 'hey, capcom does it!'

Heh, I wish this would happen, if only for the purpose of hearing from Tsu again. I don't think either of us felt that selout was the end-all-be all of sprite style. But hey, if an overly dramatic religious debate could bring him out of the wood-works, I'd be game. ; )

My feelings on selout have changed from back when it was the "hot new thing." I currently feel that solid colored outlines of various brightness with minimal internal AA tends to make for more attractive outlines. I'm probably thinking the same thing Indigo is. But really, skill and perception are the biggest factor in determining how good an outline looks regardless of the style. I didn't have very good perception of the technique I was trying to implement on the old blue board, and a lot of my sprites came out harsh and unattractive because I went overboard with selout.

Quote from: Indigo
...I say that coloured outlines deserves a pixel-term.  It deserves it much more than the choppy sel-out does.

Colored Outlining Which Emphasizes Luminous Functionality - Cowelf

Colored Outlining With Predetermined Optical Oppositional Pigmentation - Cowpoop

In case you didn't know, I'm pretty damn awesome at coming up with a catchy phrase for pixel techniques.

[/derail]
« Last Edit: November 03, 2006, 06:11:03 pm by pkmays »

Offline Soup

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #29 on: November 03, 2006, 10:38:16 pm
Wow. I am amazed.
But it has no nose. The face also needs some shading.

Offline Helm

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #30 on: November 03, 2006, 11:28:24 pm
Heh, I wish this would happen, if only for the purpose of hearing from Tsu again. I don't think either of us felt that selout was the end-all-be all of sprite style. But hey, if an overly dramatic religious debate could bring him out of the wood-works, I'd be game. ; )

Heh, I hear you. I miss Tsugumo lots.

Quote
My feelings on selout have changed from back when it was the "hot new thing." I currently feel that solid colored outlines of various brightness with minimal internal AA tends to make for more attractive outlines.

Agree totally.

Quote
I didn't have very good perception of the technique I was trying to implement on the old blue board, and a lot of my sprites came out harsh and unattractive because I went overboard with selout.

Still remember that Blade of the Immortal grayscale sprite that was so nice but was destroyed by harsh selout everywhere. Still have?

Offline snake

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #31 on: November 03, 2006, 11:38:53 pm
Absolutely love this. There were a few things you could do differently. Experimented a bit to show some suggestions:


(edit on Helm's edit)

The way the shoulders are connected now are a bit broad and is nearly parallel to the neckbone. Usually the shoulders are slightly above when leaning/resting on that arm. Some minor edits on her right (our left) arm since it looked a little squareish. There is also a very little indication of a ribcage so I pulled that further out so it would match up with her other shoulder. I also reduced her gut. Not because she looked beefy, but because her arm is allready hiding that she's sitting tilted forward/sideways. The extra gut made her look more like a flat column sitting straight down and taking away her pose (if that makes any sense...). Also did an edit to a few of the apples to suggest an alternative way of making the apples more golden.

On a sidenote, the fins are taking away a lot of attention. Maybe you could blend them in a way, I don't know. They do balance out the picture, but with the shading they have now, they grab the attention as yellow blobs rather than fins complimenting the rest.

Only suggestions of course. Just wanted to put my two cents into the ring.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 08:07:50 am by ptoing »

Offline Kren

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #32 on: November 04, 2006, 01:21:31 am
hmm the only thing that doesn't suit is the tail of the mermaid, it seems to me that it is not the same style as the rest of the picture.

Offline Toby

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #33 on: November 04, 2006, 09:38:54 am
helm, untill recently I always thought that simply coloured-changing (according to light) outlines was also considered sel-out.  In a way, it is, because your "selectively outlining" certain areas of your sprite with different colours (solid line, not choppy).  If that be the case, then sel-out could be both clean *and* choppy.  But since i learn that it's not, I say that coloured outlines deserves a pixel-term.  It deserves it much more than the choppy sel-out does.

This is what I always thought selout stood for, a colored outline that changes according to where light is coming from. So, I'm sorry for misusing the term, but I still feel that a colored outline fits this piece better than AA.

Offline eobet

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #34 on: November 04, 2006, 07:57:49 pm
I hope I don't offend anyone for saying this, but in all the edits, the mermaid has gone from cutesy to a bimbo.

The quality of the picture has improved, but the original character has been transformed into something completely different.

I also agree with the previous post, the mermaid's tail is too attention grabbing in the composition as it is now.

Offline Helm

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #35 on: November 04, 2006, 09:12:45 pm
Though I don't care for the tummy tuck snake performed, it alarms me how you think give her actual lips contributes to her being a bimbo. I'd be scared to ask where that came from.

Offline Faceless

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #36 on: November 05, 2006, 09:13:22 am
Though I don't care for the tummy tuck snake performed, it alarms me how you think give her actual lips contributes to her being a bimbo. I'd be scared to ask where that came from.
There are plenty of mouth shapes, so claiming that he's attributing bimboness to "actual lips" is a bit unfair.
The shape of the eyes and the nose in the edit also contribute. >:D

Offline Dusty

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #37 on: November 05, 2006, 12:47:18 pm
Well, mermaids are supposed to be seductive by nature... least from the tales and such.
Anyways, I too much prefer the conditional-outlining(I'm going to call it that, because it changes due to the condition. For reference, I'm refering to the coloured outlining, not the black). I think black outlines are just way too harsh, and if you do want to keep them, drop darkness of it down a notch to a more near-midtone grey. In the original picture, the thing that stood out most is that it seemed you were going for a cartoony style, which the black outlines would fit. But then the outline of the hair and the arm was compeltely different.

I agree with what was said about the finsl. I think they're just way too large for such a lack of detail, and just stand out compared to the rest of the picture. I supposed you could either size them down a bit, or add some sort of texturing to it.
I'm also not sure about the dithering. You have dithered a lot of the picture, then didn't dither the rest. It really gives a clash of style to it, as some things like the tree are smooth and cartoony, then you have a more detailed rock, moss, and scales of the mermaid. That also goes with what I was saying about her tail.

I think the new face fits the purpose of the mermaid a lot more, and I don't think it makes her look like a bimbo. Though I think her left eye in the edit could use a move to the left a pixel.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2006, 12:49:51 pm by Dusty »

Offline Terley

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #38 on: November 05, 2006, 01:08:18 pm
I personally think the fin-tail bit is too light, looks great in the reflection but It seems too distracting to me..



Damn, already bin said.. ok, erm.. Last minute thought, maybe on the edits her lips are too large? I personally think this looks more feminine..  ???

« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 08:08:59 am by ptoing »
I've not got anything interesting to type here..

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #39 on: November 05, 2006, 01:11:01 pm
as for the lips 'isuue', i'd either lighten them or darken the face.  i doubt it's the shape that's bothering people, but the fact that so much attention is drawn to them.  without some real makeup, few girls have lips that dark against skin that light.

heres an edit -



also, i didnt notice this until i started working, but the light sources are separated....split down the center really.  compositionally it works, but visually (and scientifically, if you can talk about science with regard to light on mermaids) not so well
« Last Edit: November 23, 2006, 09:44:20 pm by ptoing »
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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #40 on: November 06, 2006, 11:14:55 am
I had a few seconds.  so I made a quick edit. 



Basically, I was just making a quick point about the tail fins.  The actual tail is pretty good, but the style there doesn't fit in with the fins.  So I made a quick dither thing. 

Also, I don't agree with the hard highlight on the hairs top.  Too harsh for me. 
« Last Edit: November 23, 2006, 09:44:36 pm by ptoing »
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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #41 on: November 07, 2006, 02:49:22 am
Sorry if my post is pointless, :) just want to say I watch that tread as a movie and I really like the first picture as much as most of the edits, which convince me the piece very well done from the beginning is very hard to ruin. :)

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #42 on: November 08, 2006, 02:19:30 am
I have to say this is turning out to be my favorite pixelation spontaneous collaboration thread! Here's my two cents, building upon Adarias' great edit. :) I agree the tail needs a different shading, right now it's just clashing way too much with the rest.

« Last Edit: November 23, 2006, 09:44:55 pm by ptoing »

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #43 on: November 08, 2006, 02:53:31 am
I just wish we didn't scare Mirre off herself.

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #44 on: November 08, 2006, 03:15:03 am
I just wish we didn't scare Mirre off herself.

Point taken. Mirre where are you?

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #45 on: November 08, 2006, 03:29:43 am
well with the amount of edits I suppose she feels she's not needed anymore,  :lol:

It's really nice this, love to see what you do with it Mirre.
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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #46 on: November 08, 2006, 03:31:58 am
well with the amount of edits I suppose she feels she's not needed anymore,  :lol:

GRAR! Edits mean nothing unless the original artist benefits from them!! Okay, there's the secondary boon of learning yourself and becoming better at finalizing art, but never should it be at the expense of the original poster.

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #47 on: November 08, 2006, 03:43:55 am
yeah, your right. sry
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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #48 on: November 08, 2006, 08:07:50 am
Gah! Soryy guys, I didn't mean to seem so ... unappreciative. I'm working on it, and I'm aboyt half done! Just had to finish some other art with deadlines and stuff there around Halloween, and then a friend from Sweden came over in the weekend so I'm not done with my edit based on all the wonderful C&C I've gotten. Plus I'm going to write replies to you all, so don't think I don't appreciate it - I do! It's just taking me some time.

I'm really baffled by the amount of response I've gotten on this piece. :o Must've done something right.

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #49 on: November 08, 2006, 11:34:34 pm
really nice job mirre!  :-*

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #50 on: November 08, 2006, 11:42:55 pm
I have to say this is turning out to be my favorite pixelation spontaneous collaboration thread! Here's my two cents, building upon Adarias' great edit. :) I agree the tail needs a different shading, right now it's just clashing way too much with the rest.



Just wanted to say that I think this is the best edit of the face so far.  ptoing's was good, but the lips were a bit unnatural in my opinion.

Only other thing I can add is that the horizon is kind of flat and uninteresting... it'd be nice to throw some more rocks or clouds back there.  You know, with some atmospheric haze so that it doesn't distract from what's in the foreground.  Great piece, Mirre! :y:
« Last Edit: November 23, 2006, 09:45:22 pm by ptoing »

Offline Mirre

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #51 on: November 12, 2006, 04:52:52 pm
Sorry for the long wait! Please, don't hit me!!! :ouch:

But now I've finally gotten it done ... so what do you think?




mccow28: Adjusted the hair to follow the movement of her head, but that made one of her nipples show a little so maybe I should put a nudity warning on this now? ??? I also adjusted her left breast. I put it slightly lower, as she's not sitting perfectly straight.

Keops: Thanks for the C&C! I made the black into a lighter (but still very dark) blue-grey. I'm glad you like my colour choices!

D39: The tail has been redone!

Godslayer: I've removed the black outline there, but I really liked ptoing's help with the water so that's what has been implemented.

rabidbaboy: As stated above, the tail has been redone. I studied some fish tails before I cam up with what it looks like now.

ptoing: Thank you soo much for the edit. It was a great help with this piece. Especially the reeds and the water was improved by the help you gave me. :y: I did not do it completely your way though. For example the outlines; I kept them... but made them lighter in tone on some places, and I did AA a bit better. The merging of the gold and skin colour was a great idea, so I did that as well and that left me with the possibility of adding another colour, for which I chose a very light blue so that I could make clouds and AA them nicely. I intended to have them in the piece from the start but I ran out of colours. I added highlights to suggested places, but much more on the tree than in your example, and I think that made the leaves fit more into the style of the rock and the mermaids scales. Brought the picture together so to say. I did add a face to the mermaid. But in my own style. It looked good with your edit, but it was very ptoing-ish...and compared to my style it looked like an angry make-up artist had attacked her :P Other things I did was to slim the wrist, and change the palette a tiny bit, though I did not go really as saturated as your edit is.

Actually I do not always do very clean lineart before I start adding colour. With this piece I did a ver rough lineart, but refined it on the tree and her face before adding colour. But lineart is just a part of my style I think. I do it with all my art, and I think I've just subconciously done it with my pixel art as well. I'll try out your method next time I pixel something. Thanks for the AA help as well, I've tried it out all over the piece.

Helm: I really liked the green tinge you had given to the rocks so I've used that idea, although I did not really like some parts of the highlighting on the rocks and how you made the shades purplish like... But thanks for the help and suggestions!

Tisha: Aww, thank you!

Toby: Thanks for the compliments, I've done quite a great deal of edits to this based on ptoing's!

pkmays: I kept to sort of a middle line here... made the outlines lighter, but did not remove them completely. Thanks!

Soup: Thanks! And done!

snake: Your edit was some great help on the shoulder part. I've taken parts of it into consideration like the square-ish shoulder and the arm. I think the ribcage edit made it a bit too portruding. But I have edited the tummy/ribcage area to show her pose like you suggested, and I also gave her some hipbones. The edit on the apples was very nice, but I don't think it really fits the style of the rest of the picture. Approve of the new fins?

Dusty: Follwed your suggestions about the black outlines. The fins are edited. The styles might go better together now? Although in nature things do have very differing textures. But there's more details to the leaves of the tree and the tree trunk to make it all fit together now.

Adarias: I really liked your edit of the face, still not really my style though, but I used your edit for base reference. And yeah, the light is pretty much fucked up... unless maybe, the tree is leaning out, from us.

Sohasu: It is not as much highlighting as it is her hair being toned from blonde to green... actually.

Fool: Hey, thanks!

cave: Nice edit on the tummy there, I did something along the lines of your edit.

Derek: Added lots of clouds to the background and changed the horizon a little. Better? Anyways, thanks!



Everyone was a great help to my improvement of this piece. I just hope you all think it has been improved!
« Last Edit: November 23, 2006, 09:45:37 pm by ptoing »

Offline ZoSo

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #52 on: November 12, 2006, 05:16:02 pm
I really like this peice, i love how the final resoults ended up.

Offline Feron

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #53 on: November 12, 2006, 06:24:08 pm
Awesome update - well awaited by most people on this board.  This definitely has to go into the feature chest.   :)

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #54 on: November 12, 2006, 07:42:37 pm
Yes, this might get featured indeed :D

Awesome outcome Mirre. About the mouth, I like it better in your version, it goes better together with your general style. I made the lips too dark and should als have made the eyelashes look less mascara-laden, I am not a big fan of heavy makeup to begin with. But it was a very quick edit and i wanted to get lots of things covered, and I have to say you made the best of it.

One crit I have is that the breast with the nippleslip looks smaller now than the other one. The shoulders are more or less at the same height, I think the underside of that breast should be 1 pixel down. And I would take 1 pixel away from the left side of the nipple, it looks like she has a MASSIVE areola.

Keep it up :) :y:

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #55 on: November 12, 2006, 09:50:53 pm
OK, nows the time for a nice, tasteful border. Perhaps an intricate gold pixel work or simple white square or even just black lines.
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Offline Helm

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #56 on: November 12, 2006, 10:40:46 pm
Congrats for nice progress. Extra points for replying to everybody in your thread, very kind. Pixelation thanks you.

:'( that the blue highlights on the rocks didn't pass through, but it's your call, I thought it was a nice idea. Same for keeping the selout, them the breaks, though my instinct when I still spot broken selout is to punch... I'll contain myself.

I think less clouds (like, 5 clouds for the whole piece, on three planes) on less of a 'grid' would be good. There's a serenity (and solemnity) of the open sky that was there and now is gone. Perhaps the best of both worlds?

The aa-ing on the upward plantation on the rocks in a bit broken I think. What you're doing is three-point max aa. zero point is no aa, one point is one buffer shade between a and b, so on. You have three points max, which is already dangerously close to blurry in almost all cases for the level of detail of such pieces (if you were drawing a closeup of an eye or something, three point would be very reasonable, even more, depending on the angle you were aaing, but this is closer to sprite-work than demoscene in how it should be aa'ed) you went and did something of a faux pas: you have a very dark thing (vegetation) against a very light thing (sky) and you have three points between them. You've chosen one moderately dark buffer, and one VERY LIGHT buffer, and a middle shade between them. This isn't good. Show you in an edit.



Still mostly three-point, but the darkest point is darker, the lightest is the same, and the middle point is used more sparringly. This I feel is a better concession between smoothness and sharp clarity, but some other aa wizard (Ptoing, Pep, Panda) might disagree with me.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2006, 09:45:58 pm by ptoing »

Offline David

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #57 on: November 13, 2006, 03:36:48 am
I don't know about the AA, but your edit doesn't look like cattails, Helm, and I think those are supposed to cattails.

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #58 on: November 13, 2006, 03:45:03 pm
simply beautiful. C&C'd to bits!

Well done Mirre - wonderful job!
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Offline Mirre

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #59 on: November 13, 2006, 07:18:53 pm
ZoSo, Feron & baccaman21: Thanks guys!

ptoing: Wow. Featured? Fo' real? :-[

Anyways. Glad you approved of the face! You have a point there about the breast, I'll fix it!

Godslayer: I'll see what I can do... I am working on a frame for it, but it's not really turning out the way I want it to.

Helm: Sorry! :sry: *patpat* I didn't add the blue highlights because (I thought) they were too harsh, and didn't quite fit in with the general style of highlighting. Maybe if I had had a colour closer to the lightest one of the stone...
About keeping the selout/outlines; I did not want to make everything too blurry (should have written this when I replied to ptoing's edit), because I really like when pixel art looks a bit blocky, or what to call it. You know, like big brother's work.

I'll see what I can do about the clouds. I agree with you that they changed the mood in the picture quite a bit. I think I went a bit overboard with them ::) (but they were so fun to pixel!)

About the reeds... I went with ptoing's advices/edit on them although I made it less blurry on the stems. i dunno, I'll see what I can do with the help you gave me (though you made them much smaller?).

Offline Joseph

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #60 on: November 13, 2006, 08:32:26 pm
while at home I can see the new image fine, however, at school I cannot.  could you possibly re-upload it with another filename please?

Offline 2dgamers

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #61 on: November 22, 2006, 07:07:10 am
The final version ROCKS! Mirre, you did so well I can't even give you enough praise... that you haven't received already. WOW! The colors were great, but your final version was better than the first. You took everyones edits and made it into something greater.  :y:

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #62 on: November 23, 2006, 10:02:05 pm
Feature get!

There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Gunne

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #63 on: November 23, 2006, 10:03:48 pm
Congrats Mirre with being Featured! :y:

Actually I hesitated with posting here to tell you this is uber-great, reason was that I waited on the finished version (with border)! But since you got featured I may tell you now! This is G-R-E-A-T!!! There was also some great help involved, that got this already awesome piece to something way greater! Nice that this will get a place in eternity..

The Mermaid  and the awesome edits deserved it;)
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Offline The B.O.B.

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #64 on: November 23, 2006, 10:22:06 pm
Feature get!

Psst! Ptoing, your Germish' is showing..

By the way Mirre, I really like how far you've come with the piece. It was great then, and looks even better now. My only crit back then was the whole non-existant nose, and the way the fins/flippers/tail were shaded. They look much better now. I like the nip-slip, adds some reality to the piece, as well as the reflection and the ripples. My only hindrence is towards the way the sky is currently dithered. I think with the style you got going here, I would have preferred a flat shaded sky...Great job..
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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #65 on: November 23, 2006, 10:26:42 pm
B.O.B. the "whatever get!" is something that happens in japanese videogames frequently. Latest game in which I saw it is Rhythm Tengoku "Medal GET!"

:P

/offtopic

There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Jad

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #66 on: November 24, 2006, 12:58:55 am
I am sorry that I have nothing of real value to add but I just have to say that this is TEH SHIT :D

Congrats on owning and getting featured! There is so much I like about this piece, but everyone else just went and said it :0 Her reflection in the water is pure magic too. Inspiration GET!

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #67 on: November 24, 2006, 01:18:10 am
Great one, hope the nice clouds and water~

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #68 on: November 24, 2006, 01:18:01 pm
Nice topic, nice pixels. I just think that the anatomy and pose of the mermaid seem a bit, unnatural. She looks like she's the first Next Top Model to get voted out the show. :d
Also, the boobies are of unequal sizes, although that's pretty normal, I think it's nicer if they were the same size.

Oh and when it comes to pixel techniques, it looks like you pwnd them all. I grant you the pixel master certificate.
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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #69 on: November 24, 2006, 01:28:02 pm
Helm: Sorry! :sry: *patpat* I didn't add the blue highlights because (I thought) they were too harsh, and didn't quite fit in with the general style of highlighting. Maybe if I had had a colour closer to the lightest one of the stone...

I don't think that's really true though. You have highlights on everything else, including the mermaid, except the rock.

Offline Mirre

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #70 on: November 24, 2006, 02:44:55 pm
OMG! Thanks for the feature! :D

I really would like to continue updating this... infact I had begun (fixed the breast, clouds, some AAing, and started on a border), but then my laptop died. And I mean died -  it's dead. The harddrive is burnt out, and even my ghostfile for C :/ seems messed up so I can't restore it. But, in three weeks (Dec 18) when I go back home to Sweden I might be able to restore all my half-finished pixelart that is on D :/, and all the photos from England. If I'm lucky :'( I can still use the intarweb, but it's not my computer so I can't use it that often, and I don't think they'll approve if I install programs on it (I'll check though). Not that any pixelart would come out very good on this screen anyways. It makes everything look like .jpg's, and it's way too bright. So I'm really sorry guys, but I really can't help it, this'll have to stay unfinished for a while. :( I'm really happy about the feature though! I never thought I'd manage to do pixelart good enough for that :)

Offline buloght

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #71 on: November 24, 2006, 07:57:08 pm
Mirre, it looks great! The oranges and randomness of the clouds I find highly likable.

Offline Lee N

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #72 on: November 24, 2006, 11:22:18 pm
Great piece.. seems you only dithered 2 of the oranges though, is that intentional?

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #73 on: December 17, 2006, 07:12:21 am
This piece has the power to drag people from obscurity...

I am just going to comment on the staggering improvement from the original piece to the most recent incarnation.  The colour choice improved greatly and the general technique in many areas has been enhanced, particularly the fin and the face.  The pastel shift and loss of black colour really made this piece much softer on the eyes.  The original is a bit more cell shaded, with what appears to be more harsh AntiAliasing, and has a much more comic appeal to it.  I'll support the heavier AA on this piece that it lends itself to the soft colour choices and adds another layer of gentleness to the entire composition (without feeling pillow shaded or overly blurry).  I prefer your lip and face enhancements ptoings, they are much more feminine for this particular piece, but he was right that she seemed barren withotu them.  I agree with Helm's suggestion on limiting cloud coverage, but the addition of clouds is an improvement to the horizon in my opinion. 

I can't decide about the hair... I can't decide if I like it in its current incarnation, or if it looks like a giant bonnet... I don't have time to make edits... but maybe you could play with it and see what other ideas pop up (who knows, maybe the current look is the best).  A decent piece that, after the edits, really stands out as a remarkable piece of art.  This thread is the model of how art critiques should be done.  Excellent work Mirre, and everyone who offered advice.
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Offline Ryona

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #74 on: December 18, 2006, 08:31:21 am
I've been meaning to pop in here and comment on your beautiful artwork for quite a while, Mirre.
This pixel pic of yours is easily one of the most excellent and wonderful artworks I've seen in Pixelation. I'm absolutely blown away by how stunning this gorgeous artwork is! It's so vivid and viberant and so well put together.

Offline Mirre

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #75 on: December 22, 2006, 10:55:01 pm
Yay! Just to let everyone know that I'm not dead, and that I'm not intending to leave this unfinished. I'm back in Sweden now and my dad has successfully restored all my files from the dead laptop so I'm going to post an update in a couple of days when the Christmas stress has chilled down. ;D

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #76 on: December 22, 2006, 11:05:12 pm
Wonderful.

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #77 on: December 22, 2006, 11:19:14 pm
Awesome! After newyear it should get moved to the Chest then :)

There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #78 on: December 26, 2006, 10:23:18 pm
Okay guys! I've done an update! (yay)

I added a frame, enlarged her boob, removed some clouds and stuff. Tell me what you think.

With and without frame:

(Is this finished now ??? I do feel pretty happy about it!)
« Last Edit: January 23, 2007, 10:21:35 pm by ptoing »

Offline Scuba Steve

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #79 on: December 29, 2006, 03:07:04 am
I'll go on record, I like the frame... but it I suppose it depends on what you want the finished piece to be.  With the frame it looks constrained to be single still shot of this magnificent scene, a painting in a frame, without it looks like a photograph of a larger scene that extends beyond its borders.  Whatever you're shooting for, they both look fine.

The cloud cover looks nice and her breast drop is not readily noticeable but it does make them look more even (smaller breasts are my thing, but that's neither here nor there in this piece :P).  Really, what more is there to say about this piece, any more tweaking would probably be futile.  Any changes would be slight pixel work and not improve the composition to a degree worth investing time for.  The original illustration is nice, but the improvements have made it an outstanding piece.  Great work Mirre... and pixelation too for (still) being the type of art forum where artists can get real critiques.
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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #80 on: December 30, 2006, 01:37:33 pm
Beautiful, Mirre! 'Love the boarder. Especially the clams.

I still can't get over how lovely this pic of yours is. Your mermaid is so cute. The li'l birdy too!

Truly breath-taking.  :)


I'd say it's done. Perfection achieved.  ;)
« Last Edit: December 30, 2006, 01:39:06 pm by Ryona »

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #81 on: December 30, 2006, 04:23:17 pm
 :o  This has turned out wonderfully, I love the border, it gives the feel that its really peaceful for some reason to me, maybe because its seashells ;)

Nice work, this has got to be one of the best peices of work I have seen since I joined this place :y:

Offline Mirre

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #82 on: December 31, 2006, 12:06:51 am
ScubaSteve: Thanks for the input! Myself I really have no idea which one to choose. I'll probably go with the framed one just because I've spent so much time pixelling it. Even if the transparent makes it go over my personal limit of 24 colours.
Haha, I don't always draw big-busted females you know. But I thought it would fit this mermaid here. I have original characters in all kinds of shapes.


I'm really glad you liked the piece. And I'm really grateful for the wonderful c&c I've gotten from everyone here. You've all been an outstanding help! Thank you so so much <3

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #83 on: December 31, 2006, 06:34:05 pm
I think it's perfectly acceptable to go over the "colour limit" imposed here.  Colour restrictions really help unify work, force you to incorporate hues into areas you would normally not, and generally tighten the piece so it doesn't seem awash in colour.  It is also necessary at times when you are restricted by technology or medium.  Frankly, the piece is finished, so if you want to add another set of colours to add another element, I don't see any issue with that... but I guess I would ask, what colours are in that border that you couldn't pull from somewhere else in the picture to keep the same colour limit if it is important to you?
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Offline Mirre

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #84 on: January 01, 2007, 01:30:23 pm
I think I'll quote myself: "Even if the transparent makes it go over my personal limit of 24 colours."
That's the extra colour. The shells stand out a bit from the frame creating extra space I needed transparent to get rid of with. But I guess, like you said, that it doesn't really matter since I made that limit up just to train colour conservation.

I'll go and submit this to the PJ gallery now!

Offline Zach

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #85 on: January 01, 2007, 09:37:06 pm


just a little anatomy nitpicks, i.e. stomach, hips, hand, her left arm, breats... I think you can spot the rest.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2007, 10:21:08 pm by ptoing »
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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #86 on: January 05, 2007, 07:32:07 am
Hmm.. I actually think I like the older version better.  I don't know if any anatomy was glaringly off, but the edit loses some of the curvaciousness the original had.  The edit feels to "modelesque" it lacks the femininity the older version had.  But like I said before, I think any changes to the piece are on a superficial level and would not improve the piece drastically.
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Offline Derek

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #87 on: January 05, 2007, 09:43:02 am
Hmm.. I actually think I like the older version better.  I don't know if any anatomy was glaringly off, but the edit loses some of the curvaciousness the original had.  The edit feels to "modelesque" it lacks the femininity the older version had.

I agree... you made her look too hard.  The highlighting is also too strong, imo. :-[

One thing you did that I liked, Zach, is you brought in the butt and pulled the stomach in some.  And it's not an argument about big/skinny girls (voluptuous girls are more interesting to me, anyway), but rather because in the original her SIDE is just disproportionately wide.  It's not as obvious because her arm is covering the area, but if you take away the arm it looks as if the her side is as wide as her front (at least to me)!  Also notice the way the butt to the back is angled (suggesting that she's leaning forward) whereas the front/stomach is fairly vertical (suggesting that she's sitting straight up).

Also, I think the frame should be a little thicker. :)

Making those changes would make this an A++ piece to me rather than an A+. ;)

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #88 on: January 14, 2007, 10:47:39 pm
Whoop. I'm pretty slow. I thought I had replied here already. Sorry!

Zach: Thanks for taking the time to edit, but I actually like my version of it better. Like Scuba Steve said; it loses a bit of her curvaciousness. I'm also curious to why you made her breasts droop underneath?

Derek: Hmm, nah I can't agree with that it makes her side look too wide. You also have to think about the fact that girls are a bit sway-backed (at least me). And well, the arm is covering it in this case, but I think you get the idea. I'll see if I can do something about the border!

Offline qwak

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #89 on: January 19, 2007, 10:22:32 am
WOW, looks absolutley flippin gorgeous Mirre. I was looking at how the apples on the tree changes through the different versions of the image, at some stage I think they were a bit too shiney, made them look like gold apples perhaps. They still look to have some shine on them, but it's not too bad. Overall, it's a very appealing peace of art, and very pleasing to the eye.
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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #90 on: January 19, 2007, 10:41:32 am
You know her right hand, it has bright green stuff. Is that supposed to be webbed fingers? Maybe it would be better without that.
Modern artists are told that they must create something totally original-or risk being called "derivative".They've been indoctrinated with the concept that bad=good.The effect is always the same: Meaningless primitivism
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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #91 on: January 19, 2007, 11:43:53 am
Also ...

I don't like the lighting / highlight under her boobs in this current version. I do like the little trails on the bees though!
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Offline Mirre

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Re: Mermaid!

Reply #92 on: January 21, 2007, 08:38:10 pm
Ta-daa! The absolutely last edit:

Edited hands, butt (just a little), horizon (was 1 pixel unaligned, also moved it higher up), more shine on the apples, also dithered them all instead of just the two from before, made the frame a little thicker. Plus some other small nitpicks. I am really happy with the result, but I need to move on now. So this is definitely the last edit.


(Feel free to lock this topic now.)
« Last Edit: January 23, 2007, 10:20:31 pm by ptoing »