AuthorTopic: Aseprite features (Pro motion animation features)  (Read 1062 times)

Online surt

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Re: Pro motion animation features

Reply #10 on: February 25, 2017, 08:17:29 pm
How does a program that handles "adjust a color" do it better, though?
GGale has the colour adjustment sliders always visible so there is minimal burden to tweak colour values. Aseprite allows you to leave the palette editor open while you work, but you have to reopen it every time you launch the program and in a (usually somewhat broken) floating window too. Also no HSL.

Is there any way to swap/replaces colour in the palette with a single drag+modifier like in GGale?

For merging colours multiselect then merge-as-average or merge-as-first/last would be a nice feature that is lacking in all pixel editors AFAIK.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 08:54:06 pm by surt »

Offline hapiel

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Re: Pro motion animation features

Reply #11 on: February 26, 2017, 01:37:52 am
Can you be more specific of what "properly manage a palette" means?

Thank you for your info, that was very useful!

I was able to activate my steam key. I don't like starting software through steam, but I guess it will just be a matter of time before I can access the new version somewhere else :). The frame previewing function is super useful! I do have a couple of comments on it:

Could it work that you have a complete frame overview somewhere? Like if I have 7 layers, I migth not want to view them separately but still want a quick frame overview from all layers together.
Could I set myself what kind of bg I want for transparant? Small objects are hard to read on the checkerboard background, I would set this to white myself.

Why is the checkerboard surface larger than the actual image? If I set the zoom even higher the checkerboard space grows yet the image doesn't!

Now onwards to palette control:
I had never realized I could drag and drop colors. Dragging and dropping from the edges is not very intuitive to me, it took me a while to figure how to copy colors even after watching your demonstration! I would have found it sooner if I could move holding shift and copy holding control, but could just select in the middle of any selected color. I have this same issue with moving frames/layers.

My ideal palette functions would look a bit like Grafx2's. I am missing (or havn't found yet):
Move indexes around. If I want to reorganize my palette, I would need to move the position of the indexes in the palette. This would be useful for creating new ramps with the gradient function too.
Merge colors, I actually meant merge indexes. For example I might have 2 sprites from different sources in my canvas and I want them both to use the same palette. I'd like to drag the new colors onto the old colors (which is already possible with the copy function) and then remove the old ones, which is essentially merging indexes. Of course I can remove all duplicate colors at once through "create palette from current sprite", which is a good start.

Removing indexes... the only way to remove colors now is to first move them to move them to the end and then slide them away? But again, this doesn't work with indexes. if your drawing is already finished, its wonky.

As for color picking, I'd love to have the "palette editor" on screen all the time. It could replace the color picker at the left bottom, which confuses me anyway. The palette editor remains nice for adjusting relative color on multiple colors at once.

Really nifty in GraphicsGale is its load palette function. In their interface you can manually remap your sprite, or copy only specific colors, or leave specific old colors intact, when you import another color.

In grafx2 I use some tricks to get a similar effect, mostly moving the palette to a different spot in the image and then copying a selection of colors, or making a custom brush and then importing the brush colors. The easiest way in asesprite to do this is to switch to full color mode, then paste an external image in the canvas you're working on, and then switch back to index mode. I guess that works, but doesn't give you full control.

Lastly, not mentioned earlier yet: Hold shift in draw mode to create a straight line would make my life easier.

Thanks so much for developing this tool, now that I know of frame preview, I'll give it another shot. It does have a lot of fancy features indeed..

EDIT:
Another thing that has bothered me a lot in Aseprite when editing tilesets, is that I can't snap selections to a grid! I can make perfect 32x32 selections, but then moving my tile over the canvas I have to place it perfectly manually.. :/
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 01:40:39 am by hapiel »
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Offline Kasumi

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Re: Pro motion animation features

Reply #12 on: February 26, 2017, 02:19:41 am
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GGale has the colour adjustment sliders always visible so there is minimal burden to tweak colour values. Aseprite allows you to leave the palette editor open while you work, but you have to reopen it every time you launch the program and in a (usually somewhat broken) floating window too. Also no HSL.

You can also leave the foreground color open (have to click and drag a bit to set it to a pinned state). This allows you to adjust the color without changing the palette color itself. But yes, most of the same caveats.
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Is there any way to swap/replaces colour in the palette with a single drag+modifier like in GGale?
You can replace with the copy, paste hotkey in place of the drag. So you can unhide the things in ptoing's robot picture.

And... hah. While I just figured out a cute way to swap single colors, it's not as good as GG's for sure.

It'd be alright if you could set reverse colors to a hotkey, but you can't right now.  :'(
So short answer, no, longer: I think replace is comparable as far as speed, "swap" is not.
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For merging colours multiselect then merge-as-average or merge-as-first/last would be a nice feature that is lacking in all pixel editors AFAIK.
Ah. Yeah, that's a good idea. There's a thing like that for gradients in a lot of stuff, so this type of merge doesn't seem too out of the question.

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I don't like starting software through steam,
Then it's a good thing you don't need to! Aseprite is DRM free, so you can just double click the exe and steam won't launch. I have a shortcut to it.

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Could it work that you have a complete frame overview somewhere?
You appear to be out of luck there, for now.
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Could I set myself what kind of bg I want for transparant?
Yup.

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Why is the checkerboard surface larger than the actual image? If I set the zoom even higher the checkerboard space grows yet the image doesn't!
If I'm understanding correctly, that's fixed with Apply Zoom?
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Merge colors, I actually meant merge indexes. For example I might have 2 sprites from different sources in my canvas and I want them both to use the same palette. I'd like to drag the new colors onto the old colors (which is already possible with the copy function)
Does this gif look like it'd do what you want?

Select the new colors, press control+C (Copy), select the first old color, press control+V (Paste).

If you truly want to get rid of the old colors, you can use control+X (cut) instead of control+c(copy)
Am I understanding correctly?
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As for color picking, I'd love to have the "palette editor" on screen all the time.
You are free to have it open all the time, but I know it's not as good a solution as what you really want. I think someone made an issue for this, but I looked and could not find it.
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Really nifty in GraphicsGale is its load palette function. In their interface you can manually remap your sprite, or copy only specific colors, or leave specific old colors intact, when you import another color.
That is indeed a really nifty interface. There's nothing comparable in Aseprite that I'm aware of. You can copy and paste palette colors from different tabs a bit like described above, but that doesn't even let you see both palettes at once.
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Thanks so much for developing this tool,
I uh... didn't! I'm just a groupie. I have read most of the commits from the past few years which is why I know so many silly obscure things. But nope, I'm not dacap.
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Another thing that has bothered me a lot in Aseprite when editing tilesets, is that I can't snap selections to a grid! I can make perfect 32x32 selections, but then moving my tile over the canvas I have to place it perfectly manually.. :/
I recall some weirdness as far as drawing with snap to grid, to fix something someone else didn't like, heh.

But doesn't drag+alt do what you want as far as moving tiles? (Note, alt opens the color picker by default, so it really does have to be drag then alt.

Edit: Oh yeah, if you double click a tile with the select tool active, Aseprite will select that tile. It seems like you know this since you said you could easily make tile selection, but just in case. You can do both of the above things without snap to grid even being enabled.

It wasn't specifically asked, but that question reminded me of my favorite "hidden" Aseprite feature. Spacebar lets you move some operations before you commit them.

If you start the line tool, of the rectangle tool, or the rectangle select tool etc in the wrong place, you can just hold space bar and move it. Don't need to click again to start a new operation.

Okay, probably done editing.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 02:39:31 am by Kasumi »
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Re: Pro motion animation features

Reply #13 on: February 26, 2017, 02:39:42 am
You can actually do a lot of neat color stuff by changing the color modes, cel-based allows (allowed? not sure if it still works since I don't use it anymore in favor of the non-contiguous fill tool) for sprite-wide color changing.

Also, yeah, you can get copies of the software across other platforms by messaging the devs. I got my steam copy that way so I could try some of the neat beta features, like the sprite rotoscopy tool!
PSA: use imgur
http://pixelation.org/index.php?topic=19838.0 also go suggest on my quest, cmon
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Offline hapiel

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Re: Pro motion animation features

Reply #14 on: February 26, 2017, 02:46:42 am
Thanks again for all the detailed info, you're a great groupie :)

Alt + drag is great, that helps me a lot!

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    Merge colors, I actually meant merge indexes. For example I might have 2 sprites from different sources in my canvas and I want them both to use the same palette. I'd like to drag the new colors onto the old colors (which is already possible with the copy function)

Select the new colors, press control+C (Copy), select the first old color, press control+V (Paste).

No, I'm aware that I can copy colors since your first post. I meant that you can't move & merge indexes. If you move a color, the index remains at it's original place, so moving colors automatically recolors your work

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Offline Kasumi

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Re: Pro motion animation features

Reply #15 on: February 26, 2017, 03:01:28 am
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If you move a color, the index remains at it's original place, so moving colors automatically recolors your work
With or without remapping?

Aseprite lets you move colors AND recolor your work OR move colors and NOT recolor (but you have to click remap after such a move).

Here's an image with black on the left, white on the right (in both the palette AND the image). I swap black and white in the palette, and yes that switches them in the image. If that's what I wanted, I'm done. If I want it to look like the original image, just with the new palette configuration, I click remap.

Notice that after I click remap, the positions of black and white don't match like they did at the start. The copy paste I showed in the last post doesn't allow remap (which is why I use it as a "replace").

You can even load a palette with a different number of colors and remap. Even if it uses a totally different number of colors, Aseprite will figure it out.

I may still be missing something, though.
Edit: Actual sprite since non abstract examples are cool:

There's Elena. By not clicking remap, you can work with the new paletted image. By clicking remap, you can work with the image and the new colors.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 03:13:23 am by Kasumi »
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Re: Pro motion animation features

Reply #16 on: February 26, 2017, 03:06:55 am

You can also leave the foreground color open (have to click and drag a bit to set it to a pinned state). This allows you to adjust the color without changing the palette color itself. But yes, most of the same caveats.
Yep, that's just what I'm saying, except I'm talking about the palette editor, not the colour selector which is quite useless for colour-limited pixel art.

Offline hapiel

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Re: Pro motion animation features

Reply #17 on: February 26, 2017, 03:35:53 am
the colour selector which is quite useless for colour-limited pixel art.
Agreed. That's what confused me so much,  didn't understand why it was there! The palette editor is the only one I'd need, really...


@Kasumi
Thanks for pointing out the remap button! I had never copied or moved colors around before today, so I hadn't seen that thing either! That makes it workable, not the same as directly editing the indexes themselves but it does give a solution for all problems as far as I can imagine right now :)

EDIT:
Another question!
Can I resize a selected thing by percentage/pixels, or can I only do it with the sliders?

And yet another:
In graphicsgale I can import an animation from single frame files. Can I do this too in Aseprite without numbering my frames? Actually right now I just quickly want to merge single tiles into a tilesheet, for which this function has worked wonders. Import animation export as spritesheet :p

Aaaand another:
Can I delete the thing I have selected? Like erase it? now I have to cut it, which also removes whatever I had on my clipboard, or drag it out of the screen, which seems silly
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 12:10:44 pm by hapiel »
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Offline Kasumi

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Re: Pro motion animation features

Reply #18 on: February 26, 2017, 02:06:35 pm
I guess it's worth saying: I make homebrew NES games. I work primarily with a fixed palette I have no control over. So advanced palette manipulation is not a thing I do. If you have need of a lot that, there are better programs for those needs. It's just that I often see, "Aseprite can't." And I'm like..., "But..." If you (or anyone) chooses Pro Motion or whatever over Aseprite knowing what both have, it's fine.

Here is the Aseprite issues list for feature requests and  bugs: https://github.com/aseprite/aseprite/issues?q=is%3Aissue+sort%3Aupdated-desc

I will create some things there based on this topic, but anyone is free too. One of the very cool things about this program is that it gets a lot of updates, the dev is responsive to issues. It is certainly behind other programs in some aspects, but it is getting lots of features while they are not.

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Agreed. That's what confused me so much,  didn't understand why it was there!
The first answer: Aseprite is not an indexed only tool. RGBA can play too.

For pixel art purposes, it allows you to quickly add colors to the palette based on colors in the palette.

It also allows you to paint with opacity or with whatever colors you want not in the palette. And the blended result will give you the closest color in the palette to what it would have been in RGB mode. (More or less.) This is a color not in the palette painted with 50% opacity.

If you don't mind a little dirty tools before your cleanup step.  ;)
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That makes it workable, not the same as directly editing the indexes themselves
Can you write a description or make of a gif of this in some other program? I'm afraid I haven't been able to understand. And while Aseprite surely can't, if it's an interesting thing I (or you) can request it.

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Can I resize a selected thing by percentage/pixels, or can I only do it with the sliders?
Just sliders as far as I know.
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Can I delete the thing I have selected? Like erase it? now I have to cut it, which also removes whatever I had on my clipboard, or drag it out of the screen, which seems silly
Are we talking about the pixels or the selection? Edit->Preferences->Editor->Keep Selection after "Edit > Clear" is a thing to maybe uncheck if it's checked.

When unchecked, delete (edit->clear) erases the pixels, and destroys the marquee.
If you want to destroy the marquee and apply pixels to the image, ctrl+D (Select->Deselect) works always.
Right clicking and dragging can also destroy parts of a selection or all off it.

In a certain mode of Aseprite (which I think is the default?) a single left click anywhere not on the selection with a select tool active will do it, which is probably closest to what you want as a GGgale user.

On the context bar with a selection tool updated are those buttons.

The left one means left clicking and dragging (without a modifier) will create a new selection.
Left clicking outside a selection (without a modifier, without dragging) destroys the current selection.
Right clicking (without a modifier) subtracts from the selection without destroying it.

The middle one is left clicking (without a modifier) adds to the selection.
Right Clicking (without a modifier) subtracts.

The right one, both left click (without a modifier) and right click (without a modifer) subtract from the selection. Which is more for people who like to switch than for general use.

You can add to the selection and subtract with modifiers regardless of mode as well. I like right click subtract, left click add and the hotkey for deselect.
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Can I do this too in Aseprite without numbering my frames?
Nope, that's pretty cool in GGale!
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Offline hapiel

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Re: Aseprite features (Pro motion animation features)

Reply #19 on: March 05, 2017, 03:02:43 pm
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That makes it workable, not the same as directly editing the indexes themselves

Can you write a description or make of a gif of this in some other program? I'm afraid I haven't been able to understand. And while Aseprite surely can't, if it's an interesting thing I (or you) can request it.

Right now I'm editing a graphics file with 32 colors + transparency. Color 0 and 32 in the palette are both black. 0 refers to transparency and 32 refers to black on the canvas.
I want to switch the position of these two colors. but I can't assign the index 0 to all the black in the canvas, right?

In this example you see that all the colors stay in place on the canvas when I move them in the palette. The BG does change because this is the current trancparency color, which is set to index 32.


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