AuthorTopic: Commercial Critique - Pokemon Red/Blue  (Read 28002 times)

Offline Pix3M

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Re: [DRAFT] Commercial Critique: Pokemon Red and Blue

Reply #20 on: May 25, 2013, 07:36:53 am
I have a feeling that the game didn't have a particularly strong artist. For the sake of this thread, think we can confirm whether they got a professional to do the sprites rather than having a programmer with some art skills do the work?

Offline Seiseki

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Re: [DRAFT] Commercial Critique: Pokemon Red and Blue

Reply #21 on: May 25, 2013, 08:29:37 am
I have a feeling that the game didn't have a particularly strong artist. For the sake of this thread, think we can confirm whether they got a professional to do the sprites rather than having a programmer with some art skills do the work?

It's not that bad, is it?

Also, with anything commercial, time is much more important and most players have no idea what banding is, nor do they care, they just want to play the game as soon as possible.
I also feel that people who don't see themselves as pixel artist just blames all the faults on the medium instead of a lack of understanding of the medium.. Like, "This is good enough for pixel art.." or "Meh, it's pixelart so yeah it's gonna look a bit bad.."

edit: So on the technical side.
Are we going to follow the limitations of the game, ie. the way the game was coded with the layout, sizes, palettes.
Or the limitations of the Gameboy, like how things could have been coded within the limits of gameboy specs. (this could quickly get out of hand, although it might be more interesting.)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 09:39:13 am by Seiseki »

Offline Charlieton

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Re: [DRAFT] Commercial Critique: Pokemon Red and Blue

Reply #22 on: May 25, 2013, 11:08:26 am
I've always felt like the monster sprites in these original games were somewhat inconsistent in their style. It looks as though they were made by several different artists. Some of the monsters look like the artist wanted them to have a natural, realistic look, with detailed rendering. One that stands out with these qualities is Sandshrew (2nd row, third from the right in Azuyres post). You only need to look at the monsters right next to it, to see vastly different styles. Even its evolved form looks more cartoonish, with large, flat colour clusters. You can see this distinction all over the sprite sheet, with some monsters looking more three dimensional with their shading, and others completely flat, but more colorful.
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Offline Seiseki

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Re: [DRAFT] Commercial Critique: Pokemon Red and Blue

Reply #23 on: May 25, 2013, 11:40:56 am
Yeah, some use dithering, others have high contrast due to black patches while some are just very plain or gentle in their shading.

Offline Mr. Fahrenheit

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Re: [DRAFT] Commercial Critique: Pokemon Red and Blue

Reply #24 on: May 25, 2013, 12:32:17 pm
I'd like it if we did yellow as well because that's the one I played.  :P

Offline Seiseki

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Re: [DRAFT] Commercial Critique: Pokemon Red and Blue

Reply #25 on: May 25, 2013, 01:18:34 pm
I'd like it if we did yellow as well because that's the one I played.  :P

I played yellow too, because I wanted to play as Ash with pikachu, after seeing the anime.  ::)
Pikachu looks terrible in R/B though, like wtf were they even thinking, it looks nothing like pikachu.

I think it would be interesting to compare R/B with some of the improvements made in Yellow, but focus should be on R/B.




Offline Charlieton

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Re: [DRAFT] Commercial Critique: Pokemon Red and Blue

Reply #26 on: May 25, 2013, 02:25:01 pm
Pikachu looks terrible in R/B though, like wtf were they even thinking, it looks nothing like pikachu.

Well, I thought the regular look of Pikachu was only established after the first game. I recall having read articles about the game around the time when it was just newly released in Japan, and that they had polled children on which monster they liked most, based on the games. Pikachu won, and it's been my understanding that this informed the decision to make it the mascot of the series and star of the subsequent show. That could explain why it looks so different in the first game.

However, these are hazy memories from way back, and I was a child :lol:. I haven't bothered to confirm these suspicions at any time since.

When faced with a question, head to Wikipedia! This seems like good information: "Ken Sugimori, artist and longtime friend of [Satoshi] Tajiri, headed the development of drawings and designs of the Pokémon, working with a team of less than ten people who conceived the various designs for all 151 Pokémon. Sugimori in turn finalized each design, drawing the Pokémon from various angles in order to assist Game Freak's graphics department in properly rendering the creature."
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 02:37:47 pm by Charlieton »
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Offline Pix3M

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Re: [DRAFT] Commercial Critique: Pokemon Red and Blue

Reply #27 on: May 25, 2013, 03:57:54 pm
It's not that bad, is it?

Also, with anything commercial, time is much more important and most players have no idea what banding is, nor do they care, they just want to play the game as soon as possible.
I also feel that people who don't see themselves as pixel artist just blames all the faults on the medium instead of a lack of understanding of the medium.. Like, "This is good enough for pixel art.." or "Meh, it's pixelart so yeah it's gonna look a bit bad.."

Let's put aside the pixel technique. Obviously the technique is bad but I would bet there are a lot more interesting things we can bring up about the art. What I am noticing is that some of the pokemon sprites have compositional problems. Others have noodly appendages and anatomy quirks that doesn't seem intentional. I think there's plenty of stuff you shouldn't need to be a pixel artist to notice with these sprites.

But then again I just read that Ken Sugimori worked at the original Red/Green versions as a character and pokemon designer. Whatever was the deal with stylistic inconsistencies, he has definitely become a stronger artist over time.

Quick notes glancing through each pokemon.

Bulbasaur: Something tells me that it's not a smart idea to have its legs cover both sides of its mouth.
Ivysaur: Only one leaf is visible. More visible leaves might do this some justice.
Squirtle: This sprite has bad readability. The mouth would be more readable if that mouth cluster was black. The arms are also short so the raised arm appears to be part of its shell, but the solution is to make that arm longer.
Wartortle and Blastoise: Wonky forms are wonky. So many parts are shaded the same way so it flattens the forms.
Caterpie: Noise under its mouth.
Beedril: Aaahahaha, I can relate when I've seen plenty of pony artists who draw hind legs much like humans. Beedril's legs are structured like a pair super-simplified human legs. I noticed that in later versions Beedril's 'foot' is much larger now.
Pidgey Family: Did the spriter know how wings work? The anatomy is different from each evolution. Pigeot has the most confusing composition.
Spearow: Readability, dammit! I can't tell how the wing is attached to the body.
Ekans: Interesting head anatomy. iirc snakes do not have a brow and I am not sure what the brow is adding to the design.
Arbok: The body looks like one of a worm, not a snake. Same for Ekans. Not sure how a more proper texture would work out, but possibly they made the body worm-like for the sake of ease.
Pikachu: One leg appears to be different from the other.
Raichu: Two visual tangents: the arm touching the ear, and the tail touching the underside.
Sandslash: Broken neck?
Ninetails: The raised leg appears shrunken.
Golbat: Haha, how is that tongue attached to its mouth? Composition is also a tad confusing.

There's a lot of pokemon to go through but I'll stop here for now. Other stuff for me to do atm now
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 04:18:56 pm by Pix3M »

Offline Conzeit

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Re: [DRAFT] Commercial Critique: Pokemon Red and Blue

Reply #28 on: May 25, 2013, 05:29:30 pm
a bit offtopic but
Arne: I always did find your little article on the pokemans very interesting, your point about how these first 151 had more empashis combining separate concepts and less decorative parts strikes quite true. You mentioned there you only liked about 30 of these in that article, which are they? I always was curious about what would be your examples of good pokemans

Did you guys check the pokemon Green sprites? I think those are actually the original sprites, and some of them they vary from the sanctioned look even further

just check out this spaced out Drowzee...I love it XD

I think we should base our remakes on the red/green red/blue sprites rather than the boring sanitized nitnendo spritesheets, lots more room for interpretation here. Plus,  I understood it what motivated the creation of this topic was the idea of remaking an old game that looked really crappy and looked really popular....not to compete in terms of pixeling with the pixelartists of the lastest 2d pokemon game.

The point of the activity still isnt very clear to me, just a mockup of pokemon in GBC specs? you should make that clear in the first post of the thread, and compile the sheets we on which should base our remakes  Ruymaru
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 06:08:16 pm by Conceit »

Offline Crow

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Re: [DRAFT] Commercial Critique: Pokemon Red and Blue

Reply #29 on: May 25, 2013, 06:20:40 pm
Did you guys check the pokemon Green sprites? I think those are actually the original sprites

They are. Red and Blue in Europe and the USA were sort of a 1.1 release. Green and original Red also still had the swap glitch in place (you could swap Pokemon with items, creating memory errors, allowing a 4 minute glitch speedrun).
No pixel expert, just a coding monkey (´ω`)っ旦~~