You’ve probably heard the phrase. Maybe you saw it on a t-shirt, or perhaps you read that John Green novel about OCD and a missing billionaire. It sounds like a joke. A punchline from a philosophy 101 lecture that nobody actually attended. But turtles all the way down is actually one of the most stubborn, annoying, and weirdly beautiful ways humans have ever tried to explain how the universe works. Or, more accurately, why we can't explain it at all.
It’s an infinite regress.
Think about it. If you ask a scientist why the Earth stays in orbit, they’ll talk about gravity and spacetime. If you ask why gravity exists, they’ll point to the mass of objects warping the fabric of the universe. If you keep asking "why" like a caffeinated toddler, you eventually hit a wall. You reach a point where there is no more "because." There's just... the bottom. Except the whole point of this turtle thing is that there is no bottom.
Where did the turtles actually come from?
Most people think this is an ancient Hindu myth. It isn't. Not exactly. While some Vedic texts do mention a cosmic tortoise (Akupāra) supporting the world, the specific "turtles all the way down" anecdote is a piece of Western folklore that’s been attributed to everyone from William James to Bertrand Russell.
The story usually goes like this: A famous philosopher—let’s say Bertrand Russell—is giving a public lecture on astronomy. He describes how the Earth orbits the Sun. After the talk, a little old lady at the back stands up and says, "What you've told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise."
Russell, feeling smug, asks, "And what is the tortoise standing on?"
The lady doesn't miss a beat. She says, "You're very clever, young man, very clever. But it's turtles all the way down!"
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It’s a brilliant bit of rhetoric because it exposes the flaw in almost every logical system we have. We hate the idea of a foundation that just exists for no reason. We want a cause for every effect. But if every cause needs its own cause, you’re stuck in an endless loop. You’re stuck with a stack of reptiles that never ends.
The logic of the infinite regress
In philosophy, this is what we call an infinite regress. It’s a problem that has haunted thinkers since Aristotle. He hated it. He thought that if you couldn't find a "First Mover"—a starting point that didn't need its own cause—then nothing could actually exist.
But modern physics kida suggests the old lady might have been onto something.
Look at quantum mechanics. We used to think atoms were the bottom. Then we found protons and neutrons. Then we found quarks. Now, string theory suggests that those quarks might just be vibrations of even smaller "strings." We keep peeling the onion, and we haven't found a core yet. We just find more onion.
Stephen Hawking actually used the turtle story to open his famous book, A Brief History of Time. He used it to highlight the absurdity of our quest for a "Theory of Everything." Are we actually finding the truth, or are we just building a taller tower of turtles? It's a humbling thought. Honestly, it’s a bit terrifying if you think about it for more than five minutes while trying to fall asleep.
Beyond philosophy: Turtles in pop culture and mental health
You can't talk about this phrase without mentioning John Green. His 2017 book, Turtles All the Way Down, took this abstract cosmic joke and turned it into a metaphor for mental illness, specifically Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD).
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For the protagonist, Aza Holmes, her thoughts are the turtles.
One thought leads to another, which leads to another, in an inescapable spiral. There is no "bottom" to the anxiety. You can't just find the "root cause" and fix it, because the brain just keeps generating new layers of "what if?" It’s one of the most accurate depictions of intrusive thoughts ever written because it acknowledges that some loops don't have an exit ramp.
Why this matters for how we live
We live in a world obsessed with "getting to the bottom of things."
- We want the "root cause" of inflation.
- We want the "hidden truth" behind a political scandal.
- We want to find the one "superfood" that fixes our gut health.
But real life is messy. Usually, when you solve one problem, you just find a slightly more complex problem underneath it.
I remember talking to a software engineer who was frustrated because every time he patched a bug, the patch created a new dependency issue. He told me, "It's just dependencies all the way down." He was living the turtle life without even knowing the meme. This shows up in linguistics, too. You define a word using other words. Then you have to define those words. If you don’t stop somewhere and just agree on what a "tree" is, you’ll be reading the dictionary until the sun burns out.
Is there a "First Turtle"?
Religions usually try to solve this by introducing a "First Turtle." They call it God, or the Unmoved Mover, or the Source. It’s the one thing that doesn't need a turtle underneath it because it just is.
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Science tries to do the same with the Big Bang. But then people ask, "What happened a second before the Big Bang?" and the physicists start sweating and talking about how time itself didn't exist yet, so the question doesn't make sense. Which, let’s be real, is just a very sophisticated way of saying, "Stop asking about the turtles."
The truth is, we might never find the bottom. And that’s okay.
There’s a certain kind of peace that comes with accepting the infinite. If the universe is endless, and the layers of reality are infinite, then the quest for knowledge never has to end. We aren't failing because we haven't found the ultimate answer; we're just participating in a tradition of questioning that goes back as long as humans have been able to look at the stars and feel small.
How to use "Turtle Logic" in your own life
If you find yourself spiraling—whether it's over a project at work, a relationship issue, or just general existential dread—try leaning into the turtles.
Instead of trying to find the one "perfect" solution that fixes everything forever, acknowledge that you’re just dealing with the current layer. Fix the turtle you're standing on. Don't worry about the one ten levels down. You can't reach it yet anyway.
Actionable Next Steps for the Curious:
- Audit your "Whys": Next time you’re stuck on a problem, use the "5 Whys" technique (a favorite in Lean manufacturing). Ask why something happened five times. If you hit a point where the answer is "that's just how it is," you've found your current base turtle.
- Read the Source Material: Pick up A Brief History of Time by Stephen Hawking. He tackles the cosmological side of this better than anyone else. If you're more into the emotional side, read John Green's novel—it's a fast read but hits hard.
- Practice Grounding: If your thoughts feel like an infinite regress, use the 5-4-3-2-1 grounding method. It forces your brain out of the "turtle stack" and back into your physical body (5 things you see, 4 you can touch, etc.).
- Accept the Loop: Recognize that some things in life—like language, love, and consciousness—are recursive. They define themselves. Stop looking for a foundation and start enjoying the view from the stack.
The world is complicated. It's weird. It's layered. And yeah, it's probably turtles all the way down. But as long as the turtles are sturdy, we might as well enjoy the ride.