[TREE] Elk needs help!

[Elk]

Hello, I'm getting desperate here right now...I can't seem to find a way to tile the tree properly for the mass-effect of dense forests without getting weird grid patterns...

Can you help me with this, pixelation community?

Currently it's like this:



But in the mass it gets the X grid...
A solution to fix is to weaken the shadow, I know, but i don't want to fulfill that compromise x_x

[vierbit]

Why not just add a few variations of trees?

Maybe it helps seeing a forest more like a "mass" of leafs with treetrunks and not a placement of individual trees.
Otherwise it looks quit nice and I personally donīt think the x pattern is too annoying. 

[Elk]

Can't add much more trees, as it has to be all tiles

but thanks alot!

[blumunkee]

I don't get it. Do you have to make the trees out of individual tiles, or does each tree have to be a single tile, or what? If you would clarify what your restrictions are maybe it'll be clearer.

[Elk]

I'm only allowed to use this 1 tree, and it will have to be put in a pattern order so it tiles well (I can't overlap transparent images, it is all full tiles)

[Photocopier]

Could you slit it into the tiles please? or tell us how big each tile is, It'd be nice to know what there is to work with

[Mathias]

No variations per tile type allowed? Why? That's abandoning much of the beauty of tiling.

Doubt you've seen this yet, it may help.

There's simply not enough information in your post for me to be able to help you. But the above link should be useful, the same principles will apply.

[Carl Winslow]

He's using Graal, which is a bit of a mess as far as it's graphics engine is concerned. it only really allows a few/no varations on specific game objects that are placed over the normal level tiles. to get more you'd be replacing major sections of the tilemap, limiting other terrain variation.

all in all a pain in the ass, but he's doing a pretty good job with what he has. he COULD concievably use the mini bush object to add variation, but I'm not sure if he could even do that. been ages since I messed with that stuff.

[Ryumaru]

Could you not create a tree who's tiles can make more than one shape of tree?

[Elk]

Could you not create a tree who's tiles can make more than one shape of tree?

I've had something like that wich was filled dark inside but I prefer to go a style like this now

tiles are 16x16

there are psychological ways to get the attention from the trees to the environment though, I could try that aswell

[Mathias]

16x16!? What the.

I have no sympathy for crappy game engines. Make some coder friends.

[Doppleganger]

I would suggest lowering the resolution of these trees if your tile size is 16x16 and you have restrictions to the amount you can use. They could be at least a third smaller than they are now and still carry with them all the detail and interest they have now. It would also make it easier to tile, given that there is less to go wrong.

I would pay attention to your light sources though. The tree looks like it is being lit up from the left at ground level. The top of the tree would catch a lot more light in typical daylight.

My suggestion for the tiling, is to craft decent looking tiles out of the perimeter of the tree, and the places that the perimeter happens to fall on when tiled. Which means, that you should edit the edges of the tree so that they mesh well with the areas they overlay when tiled repeatedly. Instead of it looking like a bunch of the same tree pasted over and over, you could create an organic, bushy, and lush forest coalescing in perfect harmony. Part of that is going to be loosening up on that strong lighting, the contrast is so high between the shadows and the highlights, and in such a strange position, that you will probably consistently get grid patterns until it becomes more subtle.

[PypeBros]

If I may afford a programmer's comment, the engine as you describe it (no transparency in tiles or whatsoever) is completely unsuited to a top-down game. How is the player going to be over the grass and below the tree, exactly ? You usually do that by overlapping two layers, one with 'everything below sprites" and one with "everything above sprites". Afaik, even RPG maker work that way.

Or is that more of a "contest rule" than an actual game engine limitation ?

[Crow]

Or is that more of a "contest rule" than an actual game engine limitation ?

It is an engine limitation. If you want more information, go check out http://www.graalonline.com (I suggest checking out the forums, since the website doesn't really represent..it). Old "game" (also a game developer platform, I guess) which is still somewhat vivid and didn't completely lose its charme yet. The awful limitations don't stop us from creating awesome content! 

[PypeBros]

but your engine supports "sprites" or somehow overlays for small things, no ? so you might have "static" sprites at the border of your tree that actually cover another (free) part of an another tree ...

[Elk]

Well yes, it has NPC's that may act underplayer or overplayer...there's many ways, but y'know, resourcewise, on a map having countless of npcs being there will be laggy, I think...at some extent

[Dusty]

While the engine is crippled(what's wrong with 16x16 tiles though? It's a PC game based off of Zelda LttP, so it's double the 8x8 resolution), I think it's more than capable of doing what Elk wants, he just has to be careful. The tileset is on the large side, and you can swap it out and add temporary tiles over it when you need to. The transparency thing is an issue, but meh. The only thing he's trying to do is avoid adding a lot of useless tiles, so best to avoid having lots of variations and such.

[Elk]

Yeah Dusty has a point @ useless tiles...because I need more than just tree's for the entire overworld, like houses and what not,that all has to be on there...I wish tilesets were bigger in Graal :/

The black & darkgray areas are nonblockable areas (tiles you can walk on) and the white and light gray ones are the ones for blocking tiles, like rocks, trees or whatever...

The only "good" thing about it is, I can use 24-Bit instead of 8-bit so it's not a question of colors

[ndchristie]

to me it doesn't look like a question of the tileset size, as you could fit a lot more using morphable tiles and probably not demanding a tree be 12/6 tiles across.  Slight changes to the tops and bases of vierbit's trees (to allow for the non-trans) would show that a system like that is not only far more versatile, but would probably use fewer tiles.

[Elk]

That might be true but vierbit is using transparent tiles aswell...and I have other tiles already made which are for that proportion, it's simply the games dimensions where the player is approx 32x54ish

(i love you btw ^^)

[Tourist]

The shadows in the tree branches are darker than the shadow of the tree trunk on the ground.  I don't understand that choice.

The tree appears to be designed to stand alone (leaves in rings, lollipop shape, detailed trunk), but the wall of trees in the screen shot would be better served by a forest canopy.

I can only suggest a redesign of the tiles, with an eye towards reuse and combinations to produce a variety of possible trees.  Something like vierbit proposed.

Another option would be to  make the treetops a seamless leafy glob with only suggestions of individual trees.  Since you're trying to convey an impassable forest instead of real trees that one could walk around, this might be ok.

Tourist

edit:typo.

[Ultimaodin]

Does the engine allow for Autotiles? Or you could try an mimic one:



I didn't do the other four pieces (the outward bending corners) but it might give you an idea you could then create an outside set with foliage and grass to create a psuedo tree edge. (hope that makes sense.

[Elk]

You can use tiles however you want, every single 16x16, you just get tileerrors if you use them wrong