AuthorTopic: I need to rant!  (Read 7623 times)

Offline Mike

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I need to rant!

on: February 08, 2010, 08:04:17 am
%*$% pixeljoint, I hate them and their ass-backward idea of what Pacific time means.  How can they be an hour ahead of me??  I live in California!!

If this is disruptive please delete it...I just want to rant to anyone who will listen.

and now for the context

Ok so I learn they have a weekly challenge based on Black and white Character(s) where transparency is required.  Now to me that means "Oh so I should be creative with my use of transparency then ok"  So I literally spend my entire day trying to come up with this awesome way to use transparency.  Finally an idea hits me so I get to work, many many hours later and 2 minutes before 11PM my time which is also pacific time I submitted it.  Even though technically I still have an hour left!  With in 2 minutes I get a comment saying how I didn't follow the rules and basically that I suck(that's how I read it)  Ok so I realize alright I'm a failure with that submission I'll just submit the character only which I had done many many hours before hand.  So I submit that one but I guess wherever their pacific time is it was already Monday which means I missed the submission.  #@&$ing pissed off beyond belief!!  It's not even about winning sigh I just wanted to participate and now I can't even have that.

sorry...  Here are the rules btw so if you want to yell at me or say I'm stupid or whatever be my guest.

This week we want you to make an animated sprite of an original  character using just black, white and transparency.

Update: Please make sure your entry is a full sprite of your character. This is not a portrait challenge.

Canvas Size - Max 80 x 80.
Colours - Exactly 3. You must only use pure black (#000000), pure white (#ffffff) and transparency.
Transparency - Required.
Animation - Required. Min 4 frames.

I personally was not challenged if we only consider making the character, however the whole animation I did was extremely challenging and took hours.

Here is my first entry



Here's my second, not that it matters

Offline Photocopier

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Re: I need to rant!

Reply #1 on: February 08, 2010, 09:28:08 am
"an original  character"
meaning one.
not 'some original characters'
"sprite"
meaning a sprite
not a 'scene' or 'mockup'
and the time that a website ends there contest is up to them, and it's the same every week. It's not their fault you took your time coming up with an idea.

Offline Indigo

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Re: I need to rant!

Reply #2 on: February 08, 2010, 10:14:02 am
They do indeed have a nifty live count-down on the site to judge how much time you have left - regardless of timezone.

This isn't our area to judge, but I personally feel your entry didn't break any of the rules *technically* - but maybe the spirit of what they had envisioned...


make an animated sprite of an original  character
Yup, you did this plus more.  there was no descript restriction for doing more

using just black, white and transparency.
Yup, you did this too

make sure your entry is a full sprite of your character. This is not a portrait challenge.
Your entry is indeed of a full sprite character (plus more) and it certainly is not a portrait either

Canvas Size - Max 80 x 80.
yup

Colours - Exactly 3. You must only use pure black (#000000), pure white (#ffffff) and transparency.
yup

Transparency - Required.
yup

Animation - Required. Min 4 frames.
yup

But in all honesty, I quite like the sprite much better than the completed scene
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 10:17:22 am by Indigo »

Offline NaCl

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Re: I need to rant!

Reply #3 on: February 08, 2010, 12:57:10 pm
Clearly it was stupid to exclude your entry from the competition, but settle down man. Every time I've seen you encounter resistance you fly off the handle, haha. Anyway, in my opinion pixeljoint is over moderated, and I've often seen the mods do silly things because of it. Your situation is a good example.

Offline Gil

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Re: I need to rant!

Reply #4 on: February 08, 2010, 04:16:03 pm
The biggest problem to me, is that PJ is inventing rules on pixel art that are used nowhere else, then they get angry at anyone not knowing them by heart.

The word "NPA" is not a term used anywhere else, yet it's so common on PJ that people start using it here, where it makes no sense.

"JPG-ifying" is another non-existant term used when a lossy compression algorithm is used.

In terms of the weekly, there have been so many, that there are specific words and meanings you're supposed to know if you want to enter. In this context, "sprite" has a very specific PJ-weekly-only definition. I'm sure I could make an entry that makes half of the people think it's a sprite and the other half in doubt. Depending on the moderator you get, it would be randomly allowed or not into the contest, etc.

In terms of anywhere else in game design, a portrait is also a sprite. Some tiles are sprites, depending on the platform and programming. For a system like NES, "hardware sprite" is a precisely defined term and you only have 8 on one scanline. If you consider the whole world of game design and pixel art communities, the word "sprite" is very ambiguous though, but the PJ community acts like it's something very defined, based on arbitrary rules defined only by precedence (you only get the meaning if you've been a member for a while).

A study of the rules:

http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/22521.htm

Does this image contain one or just two sprites? I'd say the PJ community would lean towards two. If the dog is closer to the person and they always move together, it would become very ambiguous.

The moderators would probably say: a sprite is just one "character". Now imagine a fighter that has two floating orbs as a weapon. The orbs rotate around the character and fire lasers. This would definately be only one "sprite". Let's say we change the orbs to two floating birds. Would this still count as one "sprite"? It probably would, tiny birds are probably not "characters" yet. Now where is the line between a girl and her dog being two sprites and a guy and two birds being only one?

The answer is: a moderator would decide it for you. The result is a heated discussion, just like the one we're witnessing in this thread.

Offline Helm

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Re: I need to rant!

Reply #5 on: February 08, 2010, 04:34:55 pm
...And all this furor over competitions and rankings, which is exactly what ruined any artistic integrity back in the demoscene era. Besides Pixeljoint's judgment calls (of which Pixelation should not become the usual grounds for discussing) what you can change is your attitude towards competitions. Do you really need competitions to make your 1bit art? Couldn't you just make it for yourself? You don't have to participate in contests if you think the rules are likely to be misinterpreted or unfair or if you have received rude treatment or whatever.

To put it in a different way, now that your art was not included in the competition, did anything happen to it? It's still here and it's pretty cool so congrats on making it, in my own internal competition where the only applicant is you and you can either make art that excites me and makes me want to look at it more or you can make art that I find flat and boring, you have won by making the former kind! I'm sure it's the same for many others that see the piece. So why sweat a rules call?

Offline Photocopier

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Re: I need to rant!

Reply #6 on: February 08, 2010, 05:07:09 pm
I can agree there, you don't need a medal to qualify 'good' art.

Offline Mike

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Re: I need to rant!

Reply #7 on: February 08, 2010, 05:30:20 pm
Clearly it was stupid to exclude your entry from the competition, but settle down man. Every time I've seen you encounter resistance you fly off the handle, haha. Anyway, in my opinion pixeljoint is over moderated, and I've often seen the mods do silly things because of it. Your situation is a good example.
It's true and the worst thing about that is I self prophecies that most of the time I guess I have some anger issues, or am not social enough I don't know.


The biggest problem to me, is that PJ is inventing rules on pixel art that are used nowhere else, then they get angry at anyone not knowing them by heart.

The word "NPA" is not a term used anywhere else, yet it's so common on PJ that people start using it here, where it makes no sense.

"JPG-ifying" is another non-existant term used when a lossy compression algorithm is used.

In terms of the weekly, there have been so many, that there are specific words and meanings you're supposed to know if you want to enter. In this context, "sprite" has a very specific PJ-weekly-only definition. I'm sure I could make an entry that makes half of the people think it's a sprite and the other half in doubt. Depending on the moderator you get, it would be randomly allowed or not into the contest, etc.

In terms of anywhere else in game design, a portrait is also a sprite. Some tiles are sprites, depending on the platform and programming. For a system like NES, "hardware sprite" is a precisely defined term and you only have 8 on one scanline. If you consider the whole world of game design and pixel art communities, the word "sprite" is very ambiguous though, but the PJ community acts like it's something very defined, based on arbitrary rules defined only by precedence (you only get the meaning if you've been a member for a while).

A study of the rules:

http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/22521.htm

Does this image contain one or just two sprites? I'd say the PJ community would lean towards two. If the dog is closer to the person and they always move together, it would become very ambiguous.

The moderators would probably say: a sprite is just one "character". Now imagine a fighter that has two floating orbs as a weapon. The orbs rotate around the character and fire lasers. This would definately be only one "sprite". Let's say we change the orbs to two floating birds. Would this still count as one "sprite"? It probably would, tiny birds are probably not "characters" yet. Now where is the line between a girl and her dog being two sprites and a guy and two birds being only one?

The answer is: a moderator would decide it for you. The result is a heated discussion, just like the one we're witnessing in this thread.

I didn't realize I stumbled upon something that has already had it's fair share of discussion.  And yeah where do they draw the line, I'm more into game design than pixel art so when I hear the word "sprite" it can mean lots of things and a lot of times it can also be plural like your example with the fighter and the two floating birds.  Also the only thing they explicitly stated you couldn't do was make a portrait, that is the only thing they felt they had to expand upon over the course of a weeks time.  I literally started working on mine on the last day I wish I knew sooner but I don't normally check that site.


...And all this furor over competitions and rankings, which is exactly what ruined any artistic integrity back in the demoscene era. Besides Pixeljoint's judgment calls (of which Pixelation should not become the usual grounds for discussing) what you can change is your attitude towards competitions. Do you really need competitions to make your 1bit art? Couldn't you just make it for yourself? You don't have to participate in contests if you think the rules are likely to be misinterpreted or unfair or if you have received rude treatment or whatever.

To put it in a different way, now that your art was not included in the competition, did anything happen to it? It's still here and it's pretty cool so congrats on making it, in my own internal competition where the only applicant is you and you can either make art that excites me and makes me want to look at it more or you can make art that I find flat and boring, you have won by making the former kind! I'm sure it's the same for many others that see the piece. So why sweat a rules call?


That's what I realized late last night.  I learned a few new time saving tricks that are gonna help my art out in the future and I'm glad at least I tried.  I had fun too but man contests of any kind are extremely stressful.  Especially if you don't finish until right before the deadline. 

But the main reason I wanted to compete was to gain recognition and have people comment on it and give me their opinions and critique and I want to build my network of friends because I don't have many interested in what I do.  And the last reason is because I could use it in a portfolio or on my site(if I ever set one up) and it would have the little medal saying I was good enough to win! :)

Offline Helm

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Re: I need to rant!

Reply #8 on: February 08, 2010, 06:14:17 pm
What says if you're good enough is always your own art, not accolades by other people and organisations. I'm sure employers might momentarily be impressed by a medal or two but they'll only hire you if you are 1. talented (check) 2. a hard worker (I don't know) and 3. communicative and sociable (needs work).

Offline The B.O.B.

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Re: I need to rant!

Reply #9 on: February 09, 2010, 02:07:14 am
   Hey Mike, it's The B.o.b., one of the mods from Pixeljoint. It's not really fun trying to be a diplomat from the "other pixel art" site with the issues, but I guess I have to speak up.(I would rather this was taken up face to face with us directly at Pixeljoint, though in our forum,as we're not here to ruin or step on your free will...ranting on whatever you want is up to you)

  •    Yes, the rules are a bit cloudy as to what desgnates the definition of a sprite. Remember, challenge winners create challenges and we work with what they give us to make it a bit more globally understood. In your case, it would seem that we failed in that area. The problem here, though, is that when I look at the other challenge submissions, ALL of them were stand alone sprites, so at that point, defining the supposed understood concept of the challenge didn't seem so important at the time. Nobody submitted any scenes, so it was understood that people got the meaning of the competition.
  •    The main problem here, is that your submission came in late. I saw the original, and thought it was awesome at the time, but it was understood that stand alone sprites/characters were wanted instead(though, again, I'll agree with you, in that the way the rules were stated can be contorted a bit). If the sprite by itself was submitted by itself in time, we would have been able to submit it for you, lickity split. Heck, even if it was submitted a day or two earlier, the mods would have had time to discuss it among ourselves, and possibly allow it. But it wasn't submitted in time(the updated piece), and we don't have the capability of adding challenge submissions into the challenge after the DD, which is posted on the ticking clock on the front page. Only our site creator does.( and that does not denote any type of negativity toward him)
  •    This is mainly a point to be made to any one participating in the challenge at Pixeljoint: It's just for FUN! There's no need to get caught up in the heat of the moment. The general purpose of our challenges and reward system is just an alt. way to get users active with the site, and get better rounded off with being a good pixel artist by challenging them with activities made to take them out of their comfort zone. Anything otherwise, is absolutely NOT what is trying to be achieved there.


   Also, there are plenty of artists there that build strong networking relationships with each other, and companies DO look further than challenge winners, as far as pixel art portfolios go. Don't think you're being screwed out, because you're not. Was just a simple time and technical issue...

Hope this helped somewhat...

Thanks for listening, The B.o.b.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2010, 03:48:25 am by The B.O.B. »
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