AuthorTopic: PLUG IT! (updated)  (Read 16992 times)

Offline Ai

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #30 on: September 15, 2005, 12:10:35 am
to you who post bizarre adverts/ propaganda:

.. The most important thing about Promotion is it is not usable under Linux, and the pixel-specific features it has are not enough to convince me to use a broken OS . Similarly i suspect with Pep (and he's just too used to what he has; 24bit stuffs have some interesting advantages for pixelation too).
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline Ai

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #31 on: September 15, 2005, 12:24:54 am
also, you seem .. slightly bitter? maybe just bizarre.

Yeah, names chosen from public languages = :(. They never mean quite what I want, public language is vague. Invention is better.
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline lief

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #32 on: September 15, 2005, 01:11:01 am
Quote
helm: ...people who will use pro motion soon enough because it takes your pixels to the next level...

be careful when looking at helms work, he has subliminal messages embedded in them... 'pro motion... the next level... must buy... shiny pixels...'

Offline Ai

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #33 on: September 15, 2005, 04:06:48 am
I wonder, actually. I mean I'm the one who's got a fever, but he's the one acting feverish. humm. Well, there was usually something that put me off any given work of his, maybe that was it.

If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline Helm

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #34 on: September 15, 2005, 05:05:38 am
haha whatever you say, neo. Just playing around here, not going to get into a debate about the unquantifiable something that puts you off of my art or your inscrutible intentions that cannot be expressed in words. I just seriously think most people who pixel a lot would benefit from something of the class of Pro Motion. Since I don't think there's anything up to that level, for most people who don't code their own stuff, it seems like an one-way street. It's not perfect, it has faults. But I'm not pitching it because I need you to pay the guy that makes it money. Go ahead and pirate it for all I care. I'm pitching it because I've found it's good and I want to help people. That's what I'm doing here, neo. Besides the occasional bit of fun and silliness, I'm here to help people. What are you here for?

Offline Blick

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #35 on: September 15, 2005, 05:11:10 am
I remember I once downloaded the Pro Motion trial, opened it, tried it for a few minutes, closed it, deleted it. I'm not a fan of complicated programs. The second I had opened it, I knew I didn't even want to try messing around with it. MSpaint is just more my style I guess.

Offline Helm

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #36 on: September 15, 2005, 05:14:05 am
yeah I wouldn't go from mspaint to pro-motion either. I'd go to paint shop pro 6 and ggale, and when I've masted those I'd go to pro-motion. I still use psp6 for adjustments and stuff along with pm.

Offline Ai

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #37 on: September 15, 2005, 07:22:59 am
I'm playing around too. I mean, there *is* something that puts me off your pics, in seriousness i think it's bizarreness, i do like your bg pics and usually your tiles, your characters scare me..
Whatever my motivations, I'm pretty sure 'helping others' is not explicitly included. I do like showing others interesting stuff that they can make good use of -- And promotion is definitely good for drawing pixel stuff, I would buy it if I didn't mind Windows' silliness. I just objected to you kinda 'clowning' my post on the gimp. Yah don't need plugins to do stuff relating to doubled pixels in gimp, it is just a handy shortcut that doubles the size of the image along the axis which has lesser dpi. Easily done by hand, as i did for all my CPC mode 0 pics so far.
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline ptoing

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #38 on: September 15, 2005, 09:57:26 am
What's with this thread derailment?!?!?!?!?

Ok now. I just installed GIMP (the lesser Windows Version) and i have to say i am shocked. Few times i have seen a worse interface than this. I played around with older versions of GIMP before on a friends PC (on Linux), but i did not recall it as that bad. GIMP is just a Photoshop for the poor imo, and it shows. It might even have a few options Photoshop hasn't (The Fractal thingy for example), but then again Photoshop, even if much more complex is also much more accessible.

Now to suitability for Pixelart. Perhaps I am too stupid, but I could not find a good Palette option. I found the Palettes Dialogue, that lets me create new Palettes and add colours to them in a rather roundabout way. What is optimal for pixelart, a palette that you can edit in realtime and changecolours in, which then change in the picture in realtime, i have not found. I also could not find a nice cursor, but I am sure there has to be an option to change it to a precise or brushshaped one. That arrowcursor thing is more than just a bit distracting.

Anyway, as far as pixelart goes, Promotion wins (maybe i can ask Jan to make a Linuxport) and it costs only $78 which is not much for what it can do.
The simple fact that it is streamlined for pixelart makes pixeling in it way faster, easier and in the end FUN!

Blick: Like Helm said, going from Paint straight to PM can be a bit of a pain, but PM is not really a complex programm. If you take some time getting into it (granted it is a bit different, because it is largly based on DeluxePaint) everyone who enjoys making pixelart should enjoy PM.
Before yesterday the last time i used Paint was a few years ago, but having some discussion with David, who is a strict defender of Paint, i gave it a try. Before I used PM I used PSP 6 and I am using PM for almost over 1 year now, so i am used to effectivity in terms of pixeling.
Going back to Paint felt like being a zombie. Everything was so slow, selecting colours is painfully slow, zooming, selecting something, the fact that there are no shortcuts to select the tools. Everything is so unoptimized and userunfriendly, it was very hard for me to use it, because I just could not get into any workflow with it.

That said, each to his own, but I still suggest at least trying PM a few times thoroughly, just to see what it can do.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Helm

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #39 on: September 15, 2005, 12:04:12 pm
Sorry for derailing your thread, ptoing. moderators should know better :P

workflow is a key word. the more you get into pixelling the more you want it to be come an almost subliminal process. I want to see the pixels on the screen change as fast as I register the change in my mind. Because we don't have neural nets for public use yet, the next best thing is a mouse hovering over the art ONLY and the other hand shortcutting the hell out of the GUI. That's why matriax's video just drives me bat-shit insane. The art is good. It's SO SLOW. There are no shortcuts! there is no palette! there's no hotkeys for going up and down one shade in the ramp... If there's a workflow that suits him, fine, but I hope matching brain speed is of the essence for the rest of the people into this art.

neota: congrats to you for bending gimp to your will. Having also tried it, I would never suggest it to people doing pixel art over anything else over paint, because anything is better than paint. So in the spirit of helping people (because I like that. I see your 'showing interesting things to people and them doing whatever they want with them' thing, but I'm more explicit because I'm also interested in this 'scene' getting stronger, bigger, smarter and better. I can understand the undertones of a passive agressive superiority complex of the people who claim to be all about 'helping others', and belevolence isn't my stronger point, but in this case it's more about my hope for the resurfacing of awesome pixel art I can look at, of the medium to be respected again, of more games having awesome graphics, of more demoscene-type artwork, of creative restrictions to be recognized as a valid tool in art... If I can help all that, I will. One person at a time. ) I was suggesting pro motion as a good tool. There was no 'clowning' involved. My opinion of you, or personal attacks or irony hasn't come into this discussion at all, nor will they.

whatever you find bizzare in my characters, I don't see it. Perhaps the problem is that I am not doing fauxmanga-type stuff and am more influenced by european comic artists and old videogames?