AuthorTopic: PLUG IT! (updated)  (Read 17001 times)

Offline ptoing

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PLUG IT! (updated)

on: August 13, 2005, 03:14:42 am
New C64 pic i started quite a while ago and now finished in the last 3 days.



And a progress animation.


C&C welcome
« Last Edit: August 14, 2005, 08:42:30 pm by ptoing »
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Darion

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Re: PLUG IT!

Reply #1 on: August 13, 2005, 03:20:29 am
You know I love it. You have improved so much. Oh me jeez.
@darionmccoy

Offline Helm

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Re: PLUG IT!

Reply #2 on: August 13, 2005, 11:36:54 am
I'd like to see dithers of SOME sort of pattern in the bg black... not pure black. Like the red small tints on the lettering, tho. Not sure about the blue triangle you later added under the nose, by the teeth...

More small hairs, a highlight on the right ear..., on the lower lip... this isn't finished.

Offline Silver

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Re: PLUG IT!

Reply #3 on: August 14, 2005, 03:23:39 pm
lovely work ptoing  I really like text there
thanks for sharing the progress with us

Offline ptoing

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Re: PLUG IT!

Reply #4 on: August 14, 2005, 08:16:01 pm
Just because of you Helm!!!! >:o

I tried dithering in the bg before, but i did not like it.

FINAL!
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline sedgemonkey

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #5 on: August 18, 2005, 05:13:09 pm
Absolutely gorgeous color work and a really cool composition. THe only crit I have is that the plugs look like they should have the ends coming towards so we can see the bottom of them. 

I agree with Silver. So nice to see a great pixel artist's step by step.  What application do you use to save the stages of the work in an animation?  Do you save each step as a file or layer and then animate it or is their something that automates it for you?

Offline ptoing

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #6 on: August 18, 2005, 06:21:43 pm
I don't get what you mean about the plugs. Could you do a rough edit (although i prolly won't change it anymore) :D

I use ProMotion, which is very good for animation and you can just add frames whenever you want. Basically I am misusing it's animation features to add a new frame every now and then to have the old ones to fall back to, in case I crap up. And then of course i can save those frames as a gif.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Mercury Rising

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #7 on: August 18, 2005, 07:13:29 pm
His right eye seems to be a perfect diamond.  If you look at it, it will completely make you ignore the rest of the piece.
I think what sedgemonkey means is at that angle you should be able to see the end of the prongs.  Ill try and show in text
        /_/ /
       |X|/  Its a cube....  X=the face that we should see.  I think thats what they meant.
All i can think of is you saw the Energy Hog commercial before you drew this.
Proud to be a BMS team:

Offline ptoing

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #8 on: August 19, 2005, 08:15:22 pm
Oh, the plugs are supposed to have rounded tips. And i don't know the energy hog commercial.

Also, with diamond, do you mean the pupil on the right? The yellow/purple thing. I think that is fine as is, but feel free to edit it how you think it would look better.

And all of you thinking "huh, what's with the wide pixels and the strange palette", check this.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2005, 08:23:17 pm by ptoing »
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline sedgemonkey

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #9 on: August 19, 2005, 08:35:27 pm
ptoing: BrotherInWar was spot on with what I was trying to say about the plugs. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

Edit: Thank you very much for sharing the C64 background and your WIP animation process.

Offline ptoing

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #10 on: August 21, 2005, 03:32:40 pm
I like to share what i know, actually it would be neat to see other people taking a shot at c64 pictures :D

Also a super minor update, just for completeness

Newest
Newer
First
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Helm

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #11 on: August 21, 2005, 03:48:35 pm
I am back from a week of vacation. Nice to see you rock this one out, ptoing. Now it IS finished. I love it.


EDIT: ---------


NEOTA POSTED:

I would have liked to see more of that blueish color used, as it might have made the pic look sharper.

As you may remember, i do doublewidth-pixel pics, CPC or (some invented restriction, like your crazily-many-colors pic you posted awhile ago.) . I don't do C64 pics because the palette.. has no capability of vividness. the colors are all desaturated.

Ever done a doubleheight-pixel pic? I've done a few before.. You could get a 640x200 mode (mode 2) on CPC, though it was monochrome.. EGA had a 640x350x16colors mode, and you could tweak the VGA to get 640x350x256colors
(X-Men did it). I think you could also get a few variants of the mode on Amiga.

Anyway, if you want something else odd to try..

-----------------

the rest of his post was splitted into it's own topic to avoid thread derailing.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2005, 05:51:39 pm by Helm »

Offline Ai

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #12 on: August 21, 2005, 06:20:22 pm
Linkage so that this reference can also make sense in the future after they both fall off the page:
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=141.0 Is a link to the following image
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #13 on: September 06, 2005, 01:01:53 am
man, I dont know how helm can say there's no way to make a vivid C64 pic after seeing this, I reallly admire the use of color here on it's own, but knowing that it was a pallete restricted enough to beat helm, damn, that's just mind blowing.

I think you could really use tweaking things around and working more on the composition, like tracing out lines to figure out what's pointing towards what...and whatnot :p

Offline Helm

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #14 on: September 06, 2005, 03:32:26 am
man, I dont know how helm can say there's no way to make a vivid C64 pic after seeing this, I reallly admire the use of color here on it's own, but knowing that it was a pallete restricted enough to beat helm, damn, that's just mind blowing.

I think you could really use tweaking things around and working more on the composition, like tracing out lines to figure out what's pointing towards what...and whatnot :p

Hehe this pic is awesome and it kicks my ass sure enough, but I never said there's no way to make vivid sixtyfour pics :P In fact, the c64 palette is the best 16 colour plaette I've seen, because it's hand-picked, not machine-generated. The thing about it is the 4 grays that are used to buffer everything that give sixtyfour pics a very specific feeling... not that of blandness, but very specific nonetheless. Maybe you're thinking Neota said that?

Offline Ai

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #15 on: September 06, 2005, 04:52:22 pm
Yeah camus, s/helm/neota.
Compare it in vividness to one of your megaman-style sprites.
I think you can make any given area look vivid, but not the whole pic, because the palette is overall too desaturated, as Helm documented.
For vividness, CPC palette is better (though thats a 16 of 27colors palette rather than a 16color palette).

Basically, I think C64 palette is good for backgrounds and bad for sprites , unless you're going for super-simple sprites like Jumpman had.
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline Matriax

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #16 on: September 12, 2005, 11:52:41 am
I like these tipe of images with rare colors etc...

¿ What palette you use for make this pictures ?

I view the process of the image, but i not view how make the picture pixel-by-pixel and i think is interesting.

For example i make various video-tutorials where the people can view me pixel-by-pixel anythings.

The more alrge video-tutorial of robotic dragon:

http://usuarios.lycos.es/perromano/videotut5/videtut5.html

And if you like it and would view more than this, the web: http://videotuts.webcindario.com/

How i say before i believe is interesting make a video-tutorial of your piece or another :)

I make this with camtasaia recorder and with the codec TechSmith(properly of camtasia) and after with camtasia transform the avi in flash :) .

Offline Helm

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #17 on: September 12, 2005, 12:58:28 pm
learn to work with shortcuts, that video is making me crazy.

also, that palette is the c64 palette. The c64 is an old computer.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2005, 01:02:24 pm by Helm »

Offline Matriax

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #18 on: September 12, 2005, 06:15:04 pm
Anybody can post the palette (.pal) or where i can download this?

Offline ptoing

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #19 on: September 12, 2005, 06:56:52 pm
www.ptoing.net/html/c64info.htm

if you scroll down there are 4 palettes, don't mind the grayscale ones. And don't mind the 3rd and 4th one either as they are crap.

The 2nd is the most accurate. I use the first because it is more or less the same just a bit brighter and looks nicer on a pc monitor.
Just save the png file of the palette and make your own pal file :)

I also discribe the graphicsmode these pictures are done in on that page if you wanna give it a shot. This is not just about limited colours, it is quite a bit more complicated.

Hope this helps.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Matriax

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #20 on: September 12, 2005, 08:47:04 pm
Wow! great web and grat graphics !!!  :o

I copy the 4 palettes and going to make anything.... jeje

Offline Matriax

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #21 on: September 12, 2005, 10:34:09 pm
Well i make anythings. For the moment using the palette with my works etc..



The result not is more nice  :P

But i think first make the line-art normal in 320x200 resize to 160x200 refine and colored and after apply resize 320x200 and finish, not make the entire picture in 320x200 ¿not? or you make the pictures in 320x200 ¿?

Offline ptoing

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #22 on: September 12, 2005, 10:43:50 pm
Thx, i have to get my homepage offcially up again.  :-\

Yes i do the whole pic in 320x200, sometimes i make a rough sketch in 320x200 scale to 160x200 and scale back to 320x200 so that i have no "small pixels" where they should not be.

In the programm i work in (ProMotion) one can set a grid and use anything as brush (in this case a 2x1 pixel wide brush), and with the grid set to 2x1 and snap to grid it works really well. I could also work in 160x200 i guess but that does just not feel the same.

Have you read about the c64 limitations on my page? The picture has a set backgroundcolour (any of the 32 colours) and in each 4x8 tile (or 8x8 on pc with 1x1 pixels) you can only add 3 extra colours. So if th bgcolour is black you can have black plus any 3 out of the 16 colours in each tile. If you have 4 colours one HAS TO BE the bgcolour. can be quite tricky and a friend wrote me a lil programm that checks if everything is alright with the pic (tho fixing with that programm is a bit tedious.

Cheers
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Matriax

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #23 on: September 13, 2005, 10:43:37 am
About the restrictios i view your works and i get a "4x8" tile and in any zones you use 4,5 or 6 colours ¿? for example in the image of orange worm and the other.

Here you use 11 colors in 8x8 ¿?

Offline ptoing

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #24 on: September 13, 2005, 11:25:43 am
no, no, no. you got it wrong. First of, the tile you have there is not on the grid at all, and second of it is 2 4x8 tiles. on the c64 (that is not a real c64 pic tho, just using the tilerestrictions) each wide pixel counts as 1 pixel, not as two. On the pc you get 2 when you blow it up. I made a gridview of the picture. If you want you can check for yourself.

Each tile has either 3 colours maximum if there is no black in it (the bgcolour in that pic) and 4 colours max if one of em is black.



hope this clarifies things a bit.
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Offline Matriax

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #25 on: September 13, 2005, 12:40:14 pm
Jejeje sorry, is more complicate than i will think in a first time  ::)

Oks, all is correct  ;D

Offline Matriax

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #26 on: September 13, 2005, 02:19:14 pm
Where i can download ProMotion?

Offline ter-o

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #27 on: September 13, 2005, 02:44:11 pm
You can buy it from here: http://cosmigo.com/promotion/index.php
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Offline Ai

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #28 on: September 13, 2005, 04:49:09 pm
.. or you could use GIMP, make the image 160x200, halve the X DPI of your image (in the 'scale image' dialog), turn off 'view->dot per dot', and paint with an ordinary 1px brush.

The only thing to beware of there is, because you have halved the *width* of the pixels instead of doubling the *amount* of pixels, you need to scale the image up to 320x200 when you want to show it to someone). ( I wrote a gimp plugin 'equalize dpi' which does this automatically for me)

If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline Helm

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #29 on: September 14, 2005, 04:22:35 am
or, unless you're Ai/Neo the almighty/Neota/Akuma above and you can write plugins to do stuff for you, just buy pro motion. It's sexxxelent. people who use pro motion: me, ptoing, miascugh, lief, another I can't remember, one more person I can't remember. people who will use pro motion soon enough because it takes your pixels to the next level: pegwo, monsoon ( I hope! ), camus ( he'd better ) and people who cry because they're not running windows so they can use pro motion: pep

Offline Ai

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #30 on: September 15, 2005, 12:10:35 am
to you who post bizarre adverts/ propaganda:

.. The most important thing about Promotion is it is not usable under Linux, and the pixel-specific features it has are not enough to convince me to use a broken OS . Similarly i suspect with Pep (and he's just too used to what he has; 24bit stuffs have some interesting advantages for pixelation too).
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline Ai

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #31 on: September 15, 2005, 12:24:54 am
also, you seem .. slightly bitter? maybe just bizarre.

Yeah, names chosen from public languages = :(. They never mean quite what I want, public language is vague. Invention is better.
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Offline lief

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #32 on: September 15, 2005, 01:11:01 am
Quote
helm: ...people who will use pro motion soon enough because it takes your pixels to the next level...

be careful when looking at helms work, he has subliminal messages embedded in them... 'pro motion... the next level... must buy... shiny pixels...'

Offline Ai

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #33 on: September 15, 2005, 04:06:48 am
I wonder, actually. I mean I'm the one who's got a fever, but he's the one acting feverish. humm. Well, there was usually something that put me off any given work of his, maybe that was it.

If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline Helm

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #34 on: September 15, 2005, 05:05:38 am
haha whatever you say, neo. Just playing around here, not going to get into a debate about the unquantifiable something that puts you off of my art or your inscrutible intentions that cannot be expressed in words. I just seriously think most people who pixel a lot would benefit from something of the class of Pro Motion. Since I don't think there's anything up to that level, for most people who don't code their own stuff, it seems like an one-way street. It's not perfect, it has faults. But I'm not pitching it because I need you to pay the guy that makes it money. Go ahead and pirate it for all I care. I'm pitching it because I've found it's good and I want to help people. That's what I'm doing here, neo. Besides the occasional bit of fun and silliness, I'm here to help people. What are you here for?

Offline Blick

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #35 on: September 15, 2005, 05:11:10 am
I remember I once downloaded the Pro Motion trial, opened it, tried it for a few minutes, closed it, deleted it. I'm not a fan of complicated programs. The second I had opened it, I knew I didn't even want to try messing around with it. MSpaint is just more my style I guess.

Offline Helm

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #36 on: September 15, 2005, 05:14:05 am
yeah I wouldn't go from mspaint to pro-motion either. I'd go to paint shop pro 6 and ggale, and when I've masted those I'd go to pro-motion. I still use psp6 for adjustments and stuff along with pm.

Offline Ai

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #37 on: September 15, 2005, 07:22:59 am
I'm playing around too. I mean, there *is* something that puts me off your pics, in seriousness i think it's bizarreness, i do like your bg pics and usually your tiles, your characters scare me..
Whatever my motivations, I'm pretty sure 'helping others' is not explicitly included. I do like showing others interesting stuff that they can make good use of -- And promotion is definitely good for drawing pixel stuff, I would buy it if I didn't mind Windows' silliness. I just objected to you kinda 'clowning' my post on the gimp. Yah don't need plugins to do stuff relating to doubled pixels in gimp, it is just a handy shortcut that doubles the size of the image along the axis which has lesser dpi. Easily done by hand, as i did for all my CPC mode 0 pics so far.
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline ptoing

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #38 on: September 15, 2005, 09:57:26 am
What's with this thread derailment?!?!?!?!?

Ok now. I just installed GIMP (the lesser Windows Version) and i have to say i am shocked. Few times i have seen a worse interface than this. I played around with older versions of GIMP before on a friends PC (on Linux), but i did not recall it as that bad. GIMP is just a Photoshop for the poor imo, and it shows. It might even have a few options Photoshop hasn't (The Fractal thingy for example), but then again Photoshop, even if much more complex is also much more accessible.

Now to suitability for Pixelart. Perhaps I am too stupid, but I could not find a good Palette option. I found the Palettes Dialogue, that lets me create new Palettes and add colours to them in a rather roundabout way. What is optimal for pixelart, a palette that you can edit in realtime and changecolours in, which then change in the picture in realtime, i have not found. I also could not find a nice cursor, but I am sure there has to be an option to change it to a precise or brushshaped one. That arrowcursor thing is more than just a bit distracting.

Anyway, as far as pixelart goes, Promotion wins (maybe i can ask Jan to make a Linuxport) and it costs only $78 which is not much for what it can do.
The simple fact that it is streamlined for pixelart makes pixeling in it way faster, easier and in the end FUN!

Blick: Like Helm said, going from Paint straight to PM can be a bit of a pain, but PM is not really a complex programm. If you take some time getting into it (granted it is a bit different, because it is largly based on DeluxePaint) everyone who enjoys making pixelart should enjoy PM.
Before yesterday the last time i used Paint was a few years ago, but having some discussion with David, who is a strict defender of Paint, i gave it a try. Before I used PM I used PSP 6 and I am using PM for almost over 1 year now, so i am used to effectivity in terms of pixeling.
Going back to Paint felt like being a zombie. Everything was so slow, selecting colours is painfully slow, zooming, selecting something, the fact that there are no shortcuts to select the tools. Everything is so unoptimized and userunfriendly, it was very hard for me to use it, because I just could not get into any workflow with it.

That said, each to his own, but I still suggest at least trying PM a few times thoroughly, just to see what it can do.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Helm

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #39 on: September 15, 2005, 12:04:12 pm
Sorry for derailing your thread, ptoing. moderators should know better :P

workflow is a key word. the more you get into pixelling the more you want it to be come an almost subliminal process. I want to see the pixels on the screen change as fast as I register the change in my mind. Because we don't have neural nets for public use yet, the next best thing is a mouse hovering over the art ONLY and the other hand shortcutting the hell out of the GUI. That's why matriax's video just drives me bat-shit insane. The art is good. It's SO SLOW. There are no shortcuts! there is no palette! there's no hotkeys for going up and down one shade in the ramp... If there's a workflow that suits him, fine, but I hope matching brain speed is of the essence for the rest of the people into this art.

neota: congrats to you for bending gimp to your will. Having also tried it, I would never suggest it to people doing pixel art over anything else over paint, because anything is better than paint. So in the spirit of helping people (because I like that. I see your 'showing interesting things to people and them doing whatever they want with them' thing, but I'm more explicit because I'm also interested in this 'scene' getting stronger, bigger, smarter and better. I can understand the undertones of a passive agressive superiority complex of the people who claim to be all about 'helping others', and belevolence isn't my stronger point, but in this case it's more about my hope for the resurfacing of awesome pixel art I can look at, of the medium to be respected again, of more games having awesome graphics, of more demoscene-type artwork, of creative restrictions to be recognized as a valid tool in art... If I can help all that, I will. One person at a time. ) I was suggesting pro motion as a good tool. There was no 'clowning' involved. My opinion of you, or personal attacks or irony hasn't come into this discussion at all, nor will they.

whatever you find bizzare in my characters, I don't see it. Perhaps the problem is that I am not doing fauxmanga-type stuff and am more influenced by european comic artists and old videogames?

Offline lief

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Re: PLUG IT! (updated)

Reply #40 on: September 16, 2005, 01:02:43 am
*steers the thread-car back onto the road*

so ptoing, i am presuming that you used pro motion for this piece?