Poll

would you like a paper trail + help with pro jobs

no itd be too much effort for mods
1 (20%)
no itd be too invasive thats what portfolios and resumes are for
2 (40%)
no likely noone would use it
0 (0%)
no it doesnt fit aim of site
2 (40%)
yes itd be good
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 3

AuthorTopic: would you like a paper trail + help with pro jobs  (Read 2086 times)

Offline TheOne

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would you like a paper trail + help with pro jobs

on: December 31, 2009, 01:42:07 pm
i didnt want to mess up a job thread but there was a question of what is a fair price it was interesting what was said compared to the desperation i see on deviant job forum. two different markets. people there declare their interest moreso and you can see the quality of their work by clicking on their avatar. have u ever thought there are inefficiencies in the pixel art market that could be removed if there was more transparency not only in the 'bidding' process but the completion of projects?

everytime someone like josh astorian allegedly takes money and runs that is money you could have earnt. also instead of the make believe karma system here based on manners (josh is 0  :lol:), will these burnt buyers be more difficult to deal with in future? or maybe they drop out of market altogether.

is the rate u get paid fair? are their less skilled people being paid more?

could a record of how long u took to complete a project help u with procrastination? see if u need to work more efficiently? would it make it easier to ask for help or tips if the details have already been said?

can u think of other problems you encounter? would a non mandatory 'big brother' forum where there is a paper trail about what was negotiated, a sample of the assets produced (watermarked), the rates charged, time it took to complete help at all? give ur feedback and state if u are a buyer, artist or neither.

Ive said all i want im an artist not a buyer.

Offline Atnas

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Re: would you like a paper trail + help with pro jobs

Reply #1 on: December 31, 2009, 02:14:22 pm
Well, this forum is mainly about self improvement, the main attractions are the critique boards. Then I suppose the second most important board is the discussion board, where what we've all learnt from the pixel art process is discussed. The job section really isn't an integral part of the community, per se, it's more of an add-on. The community could function without it, it's just a convenient place for members to find work. A lot of people consider this place their home, not their workplace.

Josh didn't commit any grievances here, so I don't see why he would receive a strike here.

As far as transparency, that's up to the employer. There are portfolio threads where employers who have used the same thread to hire the artist come back with words of praise. The transaction between artist and employer is private and this forum doesn't have authority over those transactions. Deviant art has some rather bad concepts of... conduct in general, it seems people are more concerned with their egos than anything. Transparency may work there, but I doubt that it would fly well here. Usually, artists construct their own resume after a number of jobs anyway!

Big Brother in any form is... unsavory by my tastes. (no offense big brother!) I come here for the community, the critique, the occasional job search, and I like that. The portfolio threads are nice enough if an employer wants to peruse artists.

A public record would certainly help me evade procrastination, no doubt about it. But that's something that is borderline hilarious to ask of this forum. It just doesn't have the manpower, it's a sort of bomb shelter for artists of a commercially withering medium to hone the trade.

Essentially, my argument is that this hobby forum is a provider of jobs, not a manager. Asking it to force the hands of artists, even voluntarily is not only something it is incapable of doing but is against the nature of the forum psyche. The systems you suggest would probably help amateurs, hobbyists who do pixel work on the side. People looking for professional jobs should be able to cater to themselves, create their own resumes and provide examples of their work as necessary. If they can't, they don't deserve the job, and someone who can provide those essentials will take it. There's no need to be prying to help a few amateur artists. (like me!)

Offline Gil

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Re: would you like a paper trail + help with pro jobs

Reply #2 on: December 31, 2009, 04:03:17 pm
We do things professionally here. In the real world, no one should care if you have bad karma on your DeviantArt account. There is some sort of karma system here, but I've seen people on the verge of being banned here, still get a job (me included). Our professional lifes are not tied to this place and never should be.

What Josh did is not our business. The people who lost some money can post here to warn other future employers, but Josh did nothing wrong on pixelation and has always been a fun, helpful member.

Offline ptoing

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Re: would you like a paper trail + help with pro jobs

Reply #3 on: January 09, 2010, 12:30:57 pm
This will not happen for reasons Atnas and Gil already mentioned.

Pixelation is about critique so people can better their craft, the karma system is strikes if you fuck up or cookies if you give excellent critique basically, it has nothing to do with things you do outside of your forum activities (such as work).

It is really no ones business to know how much money someone has been paid for a job in the end, it's between employer and employee and we (the pix staff) do not want to take the role of a middle man or something like an agency, but just offer a forum for people who look for jobs and people who need stuff done. The job forum is nothing more, nothing less.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.