AuthorTopic: honor over dollars  (Read 18659 times)

Offline tetsuya_shino

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Re: honor over dollars

Reply #20 on: December 17, 2009, 10:54:41 am
As I said before I've never edited, ripped or stole sprites after over 10 years of pixeling. And I'm not about to start now. Nor am I trying to get hired for a company that requires me to draw a horse. I think many of you are missing the point I was trying to make. I was asking a rhetorical question. So the answer wouldn't be what tetsuya should do, but what you'd do. Of course soon after posted this I realized my mistake. No one would admit to it. "You wouldn't rob a bank, but I should would!"...

When I created this post I was trying to see if there were other purists out there that felt the... discontent of not being able to draw anything and everything I want.  By contrast, being a writer would be so much easier. You could just type one sentence that could take days or weeks to draw. However, I'm not a writer, I'm a pixel artist.
I was just complaining aloud about my limited range and wondered if other people had the same thoughts. Of course I know the only way to improve is practice.

Still, thanks to Mr. Dusty, this topic isn't a total waste. His avatar isn't merely RCR style, it's a shameless rip/edit. I'd even go as far as saying other then the head, it's a pixel perfect copty. So I have something new for you to think about. All of you made it very clear that you were strongly against someone using edits/rips in order to get a job. However, since none of you corrected Mr. Dusty, you send the message that it's okay for a novice to steal and modify art as long as no money changes hands. Or did no one notice he ripped from one of the most famous NES games? Or is it no one cares? Discuss.

Offline Helm

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Re: honor over dollars

Reply #21 on: December 17, 2009, 11:09:21 am
tetsuya, if you've been doing pixel art for 10 years with commitment and you consider yourself a purist (I read from this, dedicated to the craftsmanship and learning) then you should have learned how to draw horses, along with buildings, telephones, sad girls that have just been told their flights have been indefinitely delayed, sleepy cats, sports cars, washing machines, big trees and small bushes, cruise ships, children and other things in those 10 years. If you haven't learned how to draw those things (through practice, adoption of good methods that allow you to abstract nearly anything into shapes and forms you can represent in your artform) then you don't really have 10 years of *experience* with artistic creation, you have 10 years of dabbling in it.

Not saying that's a sin or anything, that's fine, but get your head straight as to what your skills add up to and if they're ways away from what you'd have liked them to be after 10 years, then it's time to practice more and better. You seem to be distressed with something else than you should be at.

A good place to start is to stop thinking about how much of an accomplished pixeller you are and confront how much of a pencil artist you are. If you can't do it with a paper and a pencil, you won't be able to do it with pixels. This is a sad truth for a lot of people that got into the arts through pixel art (and especially game art) in the first place where they throught that if they could fumble away in a little 32x32 box until something looked marginally ok, they 'could draw'. That's an empowering feeling at first (because truly, everybody can draw if they put their mind to a method) but it's also crippling later on when they've drawn a few mockups of game art and think this translates to the skills of a non-pixel artist of equal representational-drawing strength.

If you want to know your measure as an artist, draw something to the best of your ability on a piece of paper at a serviceable size and post it on some community (here or elsewhere) for critique without any preamble of how much of a purist or how many years you've been drawing attached to it. Reactions will steer you in constructive directions to better yourself. Don't hide behind small pixels, don't hide behind game art.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 11:11:36 am by Helm »

Offline TheOne

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Re: honor over dollars

Reply #22 on: December 17, 2009, 11:21:18 am
That is hypocritical! (I'm exempt because I actually don't know the nes game) shame shame shame dusty. Here is an edit to make it less frankenstein (or igor in this case):



edit: not only is it hypocritical (especially since for non-paid art you have a choice about what u draw and how long u take. Also this isn't once off: http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/47246.htm) but it illustrates my point why it would be important to wait for professionals' opinions. Hobbyists can talk talk talk about 'pixel definitions' and best practice, but that can mean jack.

edit: deleted edit
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 02:33:49 pm by TheOne »

Offline tetsuya_shino

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Re: honor over dollars

Reply #23 on: December 17, 2009, 02:05:06 pm
...... I just lost my reply I had been writing for that last 45 mins. I really don't feel like rewriting it all so I'll try to sum it up.

My oringal post basicly was a question asking if you could get a job, but had to edit or rip sprites to get it, would you go for it? It was purely a rhetorical question. And in fact if someone were to ask me the same question, my reply would be more less be a carbon copy of what CrazyMLC typed. Even if the company didn't realize the art was ripped, I would know. That is the 'honor' I was referring to. Although maybe I should have said 'pride' instead.

If I can draw horses or not irrelevant because I just said that as an example. However, if you want to make it personal based on a false assumption.. please present your best horse drawing. Or, you could reread my first post and realize it was just an example.

The dictionary I have lists purist as "Someone who insists on great precision and correctness ". It has no bearing on skill level or range.

I am always learning, even if it isn't the way you went about it. I agree with you that strong line art skills would improve your pixel art. However, I disagree when you say you need them.

All in all, I more or less got the replies I had expected. A delightful blend of foolishness and helpful insight.
Thank you for helping to kill my boredom.

@TheOne: ... I'm not sure what I should say to you. We didn't need you to point out the dusty's RCR rip. It's a no brainer, even a novice could realize. Also, even if you think you're trying to be helpful, don't edit other people's sprites unless they ask for cnc, which I never did... which you did anyways,... in a topic about stolen art.....   ???



« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 02:15:05 pm by tetsuya_shino »

Offline TheOne

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Re: honor over dollars

Reply #24 on: December 17, 2009, 02:32:02 pm
Hey, my suggestions about ripping and cleaning up were called Frankensteins. So I showed how to clean up Dusty's Frankenstein. You might not have found it relevant but anyways.

 Hey i'll delete the edit of your avatar if u mind.

"For example {suppose} there was a job posting to make a cowboy themed game {and} I could make backgrounds and characters {with } no problem, but I {couldn't} draw animals.. such as horses."

I know English is probably ur second language but the above sentence is much more clear that you are posing a hypothetical question rather than a legitimate question such as "could i still make a career change despite having gaps in my drawing knowledge". I don't get the point of playing hypotheticals.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 03:00:53 pm by TheOne »

Offline Jad

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Re: honor over dollars

Reply #25 on: December 17, 2009, 04:07:52 pm
Dusty never even claimed having made it himself, so who would a homage to river city ransom be 'taboo'? Had he put it up for critique it'd have been a bit silly, sure. But now it's just an image he uses to represent something about himself. He's allowed to have a river city ransom sprite there. This particular part of the argument is silly.
' _ '

Offline LoTekK

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Re: honor over dollars

Reply #26 on: December 17, 2009, 04:24:00 pm
Ai, fair point about wording/vocab, though we could each probably sit and make points for and against both sides endlessly. :)

As for the second part, I hope you were agreeing with me, and not refuting me, since that's almost exactly what I said. :p

tetsuo: What Jad said. There's typically a clear difference between homage and ripping/fraud/theft.

Offline Reo

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Re: honor over dollars

Reply #27 on: December 17, 2009, 04:34:42 pm
Also, It's not something that he is selling/getting paid for or claims that he has completly made himself.
and I think you misread the hood in his avatar for a ponytail..

Offline Pawige

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Re: honor over dollars

Reply #28 on: December 17, 2009, 04:53:35 pm
So, this is the part that I don't understand, and I have my own (not rhetorical though) question to ask regarding it.

How can you, Tetsuya, claim to "not be able to draw horses" and yet have pixeled for 10 years?

And I would like an answer. What can you draw? What have you been drawing? Why do you think that pencil skills are not necessary? Why are you posting silly questions like this instead of trying to draw horses (or giraffes or baboons or whatever)?

It seems to me this whole thread is based on a flawed question, as anyone with a professional skill level would not need to rip anything due to a mysterious inability to draw some certain thing.

Offline Jakten

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Re: honor over dollars

Reply #29 on: December 17, 2009, 05:20:21 pm
if u were asked to animate a galloping horse, would you rotoscope that lithograph or would u borrow leg positions from the shinobi sprite?

i better stop derailing this thread that is all.

Last time I had to animate a horse I used the Muybridge image you posted, sketched a bunch of the frames and them cleaned it up. I didn't take any pieces of it other than the information I got from looking at it.