AuthorTopic: [WIP] Hunter girl  (Read 10252 times)

Offline dpixel

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[WIP] Hunter girl

on: December 08, 2009, 04:04:47 pm
Hi again everyone.   ;D

I'm kind of stuck on this one.  I think the character is ok. I know the hand on the barrel and arm needs fixing.  I also want to add a hunting knife strapped to her leg.
It's the background that's bothering me.  Maybe because lack of ideas?  Hard to say.
I seem to get to this point in a lot of my peices and don't know how to finish.  I want her to fit in with the background.  I thought about adding more of a forest on the left, but I didn't want to add too many more colors.  
I guess I'm looking for general c&c and maybe an idea or two.  Thanks.  
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 04:22:22 pm by dpixel »

Offline Zweckform

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #1 on: December 08, 2009, 04:54:39 pm
Hello,

first thing that struck me was that the torso of the women has much more details in it than her legs/feet and the background. This makes it look like two different styles in one picture for me.
The arms look too thin for me either.

Maybe a cliche moon would help to bring some content in the back ? A shadow would link the woman to the ground.

Offline Jorund

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #2 on: December 08, 2009, 05:10:54 pm
The legs are to cong in comparison to the rest of the body. Also as Zweckform noted, the arms are way to thin. Both arms and hands need more meat.
Also his pose is strange, she's kind of turning to the front, but it looks odd.
But first check proportions.

It would be great if the hunter would project some shadow in the background.

PS: Never save the files as jpeg. Save it as: png or gif. Actually you saved it as png and change the extension. Why did you do that?

I made some quick edit in yours, just to show you how well a shadow could work with that piece. Also made some tweaks in the arms and body. It's not perfect, because I'm not good.

« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 05:28:47 pm by Jorund »

Offline Manupix

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #3 on: December 08, 2009, 09:10:12 pm
The point of view looks like from the height of her eyes: the horizon should then be at that height too.
Since this would not be very nice, you might raise it less, maybe btw breasts and shoulders at breast height.
It will help with the gun butt too, which looks like a house on the horizon.

Anatomy is way off, Jorund's edit helps but doesn't go as far as needed with the arms. Won't say more about it, I'm not good there.

You give the bg a constant amount of detail btw the foreground, and the, well, bg (plants and such). Try to make detail fade away into simple flat colors as you get farther.
A forest is a good idea, think of a misty one, with just a few silhouettes of trees.
Also, you should probably keep most of the warmer / more sat colors for the girl and a few foreground highlights, and leave the bg to the coldest.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 10:46:27 pm by Manupix »

Offline dpixel

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #4 on: December 08, 2009, 09:50:40 pm
First off thanks for everyones replies. 

I guess I'll just work on anatomy first.  I figured out the the neck was too short.  I do that a lot.  I also fattened up the arms a little.  Probably needs a bit more...such as her left elbow over the gunstock somewhat.
Do the legs still look to long now with these changes?  Keeping in mind the skirt is really short.

@Jorund, I did not change the file extension.  Tinypic did.  I see no quality loss as far as I can tell.

Offline Jorund

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #5 on: December 08, 2009, 10:32:19 pm
@Jorund, I did not change the file extension.  Tinypic did.  I see no quality loss as far as I can tell.
Yes, later I realized it, sorry about that.

I know, I know, it's horribly stretched, but I did it just to look for a better height:

With the proper corrections to both head and body, I think the legs won't look that long now. If you're thinking: why not shrink the longs legs. Well, I dunno, I think i liked long legs  :P
Also try putting yourself in that position, and you ll notice, that you're right arm isn't that relaxed, that's why it looks too short. Something similiar happens with the other arm.

Offline dpixel

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #6 on: December 09, 2009, 01:43:26 am
I'm still struggling with this.  It's almost the more I mess with it, the worse it gets.  My eye is so poor for stuff like this.  Anyway, here's an update.  I can't tell if it's better or worse.  What do you guys think? 

Offline CrazyMLC

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #7 on: December 09, 2009, 10:13:50 am
EVERYTHING below the waist is simply too big. The torso itself needs to be taller.

Offline dpixel

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #8 on: December 09, 2009, 12:20:06 pm
Ok. I fixed the basic proportions of the top half and bottom half according to:  http://www.idrawdigital.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/prop_female.gif
Does this look better?

I do miss the longer legs though.  I suppose I could make the heels higher.   :P

Offline Jeremy

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #9 on: December 09, 2009, 12:38:05 pm
I think the skin needs some yellower highlights (tho' if it's a night scene bluish shadows may be better)

Offline rikfuzz

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #10 on: December 09, 2009, 12:42:13 pm
Ok. I fixed the basic proportions of the top half and bottom half according to:  http://www.idrawdigital.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/prop_female.gif
Does this look better?

I do miss the longer legs though.  I suppose I could make the heels higher.   :P



As long as you understand the anatomy, I think you can distort it somewhat to get the effect you want. Capcom's sprites often have much longer legs and compressed upper bodies (see SF3). Be careful of her left leg though, it looks a little too bent.

Offline MegaLeon

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #11 on: December 09, 2009, 03:05:05 pm
The left leg sure looks broken to me. You should shift the boot left.

Offline dpixel

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #12 on: December 09, 2009, 06:02:53 pm
Thanks again for all your help guys.

Update:  Fixed the boot/leg  Started laying out a forest background.

@Jeremy, good idea.  I'll have to hold off to see what the backgound will be.

Offline Joel

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #13 on: December 10, 2009, 01:12:46 am
The arms are still too short, or at least they are giving that feeling because foreshortening is not apparent.
Have you used a reference? I'm sure you could find one of a woman holding some sort of object/staff that can give you a good visual reference for the arms.

Offline dpixel

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #14 on: December 10, 2009, 02:22:32 am
Another update:

I made the arms a bit longer and played with the background a little more. 

I've put many hours into this and my question is:  Overall, is it interesting at all?  What else could it use?  Or...is it even worth continuing?

Offline Jorund

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #15 on: December 10, 2009, 02:59:18 am
I still think the head looks weird, like she's leaning backwards.

Maybe you could make a small animation. Some lightining/fire effects. Some wind. Just to add some tention.
Right now, it looks like a profile image from an rpg game.

Offline EyeCraft

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #16 on: December 10, 2009, 03:31:13 am
Ok. I fixed the basic proportions of the top half and bottom half according to:  http://www.idrawdigital.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/prop_female.gif
Does this look better?

Take a much closer look at that reference. Your measurements should include the head in the height. Female crotch is below the midpoint. I editted it to match it closer:



Loomis' 8-heads scale is a bit... extreme, imo. But it does make for the long legs you want. The legs need to attach to the crotch, legs in general need more anatomical alignment. Shading is quite flat. Be mindful of the planes of the torso (observe the profile in that reference image). The perspective on the background is out. The horizon looks like its way up out of the top of the image. Put in a horizon line and a couple of vanishing points and lay out some basic perspective rays to help plan the background.

And please, give her some pants!  :-X

Offline WM

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #17 on: December 10, 2009, 04:19:58 am
Well, eyecraft fixed this in his post, but I feel that it needs to be mentined, too: make sure to take center of gravity into account. You pic has her leaning a little bit, which distracts the viewer and makes it feel less "natural".

I suggest either distributing the weight evenly between the legs and having the center of gravity also centered, leading to a strong stance,
or having the weight put onto one leg with her leaning on that weight-bearing leg, leading to a more dynamic and natural pose that will give you more freedom to play around with.

As for your chosen background, make sure to choose a palette that contrasts well enough with the subject so as to distinguish the two (by "contrast" I mean the contrast of value).
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 04:21:34 am by WM »

Offline Jad

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #18 on: December 10, 2009, 02:54:31 pm


I LIKE BENDY LEGS and dynamic lineses

she must pop more

and so

ask away if something's unclear.

This edit is sorta sucky!
' _ '

Offline dpixel

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #19 on: December 10, 2009, 03:09:48 pm
You guys are great.  I love both edits.  You gave me a lot to think about.  I'll work on a better pose...or maybe a few just for practice.  I want to make it interesting and my version wasn't doing that.

And EyeCraft...why pants?    :crazy:

I think at first I was going for a cartoony, amazon warrior, rednecks daughter who's just a bit trigger happy.  I think Jad's edit more conveys this as EyeCraft's edit looks more like a tag along chick who only fired a gun once or twice.  lol  But definately is more correct and believable.




Offline Jad

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #20 on: December 10, 2009, 05:06:45 pm
I seriously only beefed up her thighs and moved her <- leg more to the <-
' _ '

Offline dpixel

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #21 on: December 10, 2009, 05:13:53 pm
Jad,  You did more than that.  lol    How about redesigning the boots.  New skin tone.  The hair a smidge.  New shading on the dress.  Oh and recoloring the barrel and adding a sight.  I've been studying.   ;)

Edit:
I'm still working on it, but here's and update:
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 05:23:23 pm by dpixel »

Offline NaCl

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #22 on: December 10, 2009, 07:43:22 pm
JPG? You bad, bad boy. Please don't use JPG, they are no good.

Also, you're not seeing something about the arms. They both still look too short and scrawny. I understand one is foreshortened (may want to darken the forearm to help convey this), but the other one is just too short. The extended arm should reach to about mid thigh, yours would only reach to the hip. Also pay attention to the thickness at varying points. Yours looks thin at the top, then thicker as it goes down the upper arm, then thinner as you go down the forearm. This is not what arms are like.

Anyway legs look much much better, good work.

Offline dpixel

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #23 on: December 10, 2009, 07:57:54 pm
What is this with the file type?  It's a png.  If it's changed it was tinypic.  And from I can see there is no image quality loss.  I explained all this earlier in the thread.

Offline Jeremy

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #24 on: December 10, 2009, 09:06:00 pm
Here's an edit, only changed the lightest hair colour I think. And added a green. The garter thingy, is is meant to be holding something? If so, it should be made clearer :P
Something in all the edits that you've not yet taken on board is the knees, rather than the little lines try doing more block shading. The whole image's lines could do with cleaning, there's some confusion and jaggies there.
One last thing, made the gun barrel lines cleaner. I just personally can't stand working with non-clean ones :P

Offline Jorund

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #25 on: December 10, 2009, 11:55:40 pm
One thing I just noticed about the concept is: if she's a hunter, she shouldn't be wearing high heels.

Offline Jeremy

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #26 on: December 11, 2009, 12:19:04 am
Or a short skirt :P

It's Rule Of CoolTM  :hehe:

Offline dpixel

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #27 on: December 11, 2009, 12:32:22 am
One thing I just noticed about the concept is: if she's a hunter, she shouldn't be wearing high heels.

Yeah, what Jeremy said ^^    :hehe:

Update:  I made the arms a bit longer and pulled her right arm more towards the body(it seems to work?).  Shifted the body to the left from the last update. And kind of Jeremyfied the boots a little.  :P


Interesting edit Jeremy.  I like it, though the boobs are too high and kind of robotic looking.

Offline EyeCraft

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #28 on: December 11, 2009, 01:29:16 am
You guys are great.  I love both edits.  You gave me a lot to think about.  I'll work on a better pose...or maybe a few just for practice.  I want to make it interesting and my version wasn't doing that.

Jad's idea to make her stance wider is definitely a good way to go. Wide stance is a power stance, assertive, fits the personality you're going for. Chin up as well (though that's kind of moving it into arrogant territory). It's either that or make her look very comfortable and relaxed with where she is and what shes doing. Move her weight onto one leg and bring some curves into the spine.

It seems like the pose is fundamentally broken around the upper torso area. The way her head goes to the left makes it look like it's actually further back from the viewer than the base of her neck, but at the same time that position of the head seems to fit the overall idea of the pose. So the head is right, the legs are right, it's just the connection between them that isn't working. I feel like only a proper figure-construction will find the solution. That's my guess, anyway.

Quote
And EyeCraft...why pants?    :crazy:

Sorry, I guess it was just eating at me a little and I couldn't help but write it. There's just so many things I see every day that push sexual objectivity of women (be it games, advertising, art, ...) that I've developed a knee-jerk reaction to seeing it.  D: It was more referring to the earlier versions where her skirt was so high you could see her underwear.

Quote
I think at first I was going for a cartoony, amazon warrior, rednecks daughter who's just a bit trigger happy.  I think Jad's edit more conveys this as EyeCraft's edit looks more like a tag along chick who only fired a gun once or twice.  lol  But definately is more correct and believable.

Yeah, I think I subliminally lead it in that direction. Most of my edit involved lasooing, resizing and shifting, which changed the pose as I went. Once the pose had changed to the point where it took on less confidence and more a kind of naivety, I found it endearing and couldn't bring myself to change it.  :)

Offline dpixel

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #29 on: December 11, 2009, 02:08:22 am

Jad's idea to make her stance wider is definitely a good way to go. Wide stance is a power stance, assertive, fits the personality you're going for. Chin up as well (though that's kind of moving it into arrogant territory). It's either that or make her look very comfortable and relaxed with where she is and what shes doing. Move her weight onto one leg and bring some curves into the spine.

That's exactly what I was thinking.




Sorry, I guess it was just eating at me a little and I couldn't help but write it. There's just so many things I see every day that push sexual objectivity of women (be it games, advertising, art, ...) that I've developed a knee-jerk reaction to seeing it.  D: It was more referring to the earlier versions where her skirt was so high you could see her underwear.

Yeah, the underwear was a bit much for this.   :-[

Offline dpixel

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #30 on: December 15, 2009, 03:47:17 am
I roughly scratched out another idea for a background to add more depth and interest.  I know the horizon line is at her eye level.  Is there something wrong with that?  I have her on her own layer so I can move her around a little.

Offline Kcilc

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #31 on: December 15, 2009, 06:19:40 pm
A slutty woods girl that knows how to shoot a rifle, and still manages to remember the lipstick every morning. Surely there have been many times others have tried to take advantage of her, but ended up with the short stick. If I were in her shoes, I'd have a don't-trust-nobody-just-shoot-them attitude, I'd have an ice cold heart, and I think I'd have a perpetual scowl to ward off any offenders that didn't run at the sight of my heat; her face can say a lot more than her stance, and I think it could use some extra expression.

Right now your character has a lot of noise, and not too much priority. If you look at your piece, you'll notice that the brightest brights and darkest darks are scattered all over the girl, and actually make her look flatter than if you had only used them sparingly and in places that need the most attention. Take her dress for example, her breasts are just as light as her shoulders and hips, and my eyes get really confused when I look at them because the shadow indicates that they should be protruding from her frame, but the highlight (or lack of) says that they're on the same plane as her waste, hips, and shoulders. Her hair also looks a little bit like dread locks because each strand is sharing the same about of light and shadow. I think if you used your highlights and deep shadows only where you thought the absolute most extreme lighting was apparent, and where you wanted the viewer's eyes to go, it would look much better.

As for your background, I think it would be smart to increase the size of the canvas since right now everything is kinda squished together.

Here's a quick edit to illustrate what I'm saying;

Also, take time to block in the basic values (like sculpting the basic shape of a clay figurine) before you start with the details because it will save you a billion headaches and hours of redrawing in the end.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 06:22:15 pm by Kcilc »

Offline dpixel

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #32 on: December 15, 2009, 08:33:35 pm
Also, take time to block in the basic values (like sculpting the basic shape of a clay figurine) before you start with the details because it will save you a billion headaches and hours of redrawing in the end.

This is something I need to work on. That's actually what I did on the last background edit.  I will work on that some more.  I'm sure they teach that in art school, which I never attended, so I need practice on that. 

Anyway, love the edit.  Love the story   ;D 

Well, back to the drawing board...literally   :ouch:

Offline TheOne

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Re: [WIP] Hunter girl

Reply #33 on: December 17, 2009, 10:42:02 am
i suggest simplify the backdrop. A hat and cloak will make her look more intimidating:



Pay attention to hand size and position of fingers.

Examples of good highlander portraits:

http://www.fife.50megs.com/clan-images.htm