Light outside corridor BG ~Outer ruins~ [FINISHED??]

[Gizmonicgamer]

This is the most recent "stable" version where I know what I'm doing.

Basically, it's a kind of Ico/shadow of the colossus-esque corridor, located outside, consisting of a walkway, a ceiling and pillars/archways. The light is very bright; behind the pillars and ontop of the "stairs" would be grass and a few withering trees. Behind that probably a small wall or something, i'm not positive.

Any comments, critique or suggestions thus far would be pretty helpful. I'm still not entirely sure how exactly I should go about the lighting of the pillars (being on the inside) in contrast with the stairs and floor. I want them to have more of a grey-ish tint and not be quite as contrasted as the stairs and the floor but I'm not sure exactly. I'm also not sure where I'm going with the empty space between the archways and the ceiling.

it was inspired by:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/shadowofcolossus/images/f/f5/Secret_Garden_image.jpg

C+C?

EDIT:
(presumably) Final version:

EDIT 2:
didn't like the easter tones so I browned it a little.

[Gizmonicgamer]

update/conceptual "forethought" into where i'm going with this peice

I'm not too sure about the lighting as a whole; the forward lighting makes a little more sense but I'm wondering if maybe adjusting it to be more centralized (at least on the pillars) would make look better.

C+C so far?

[Phones]

The perspective seems a bit off to me. While I feel like I'm looking at the pillars straight on, the floor tilings seem to be viewed from above. It's very bothersome.

[crab2selout.png]

It think it would be helpful to look up some references for that kind of architecture. I believe a series of arches supported by columns is called an arcade, so I did some googling and ended up with this wiki full of interesting drawings from a french book on architecture.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Dictionary_of_French_Architecture_from_the_11th_to_16th_Century/Volume_1/Blind_Arcade?match=fr

Columns can have plenty of interesting styles. A good picture reference here on the classical orders
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_order

There's a picture of the Santa Sabina here, whch uses composite order columns to support the arches.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Santa_Sabina.JPG

[Tobe]

I'm not sure about this, but I don't think you can get the kinda light effects with a black outline...? The light supposes to be there due to glare, and the idea of having a black line in glaring light didn't seem right in my head. Any takers?

[Zoggles]

I'm not sure about this, but I don't think you can get the kinda light effects with a black outline...? The light supposes to be there due to glare, and the idea of having a black line in glaring light didn't seem right in my head. Any takers?

I was thinking exactly the same thing when I was looking at it - then scrolled down to read the comments.

It seems really awkward having that black outline separate the intense light and the glow on the pillars. The top curvature of the archways could be better too and the few upwards streaks of light at the top seem strange.


-Z-

[Rydin]

To show that the light is coming from the outside to the inside, you could show the light coming through and hitting the floor.

Quick photoshop illustration of what I mean:


Also, if you do this, make sure that the light on the floor conforms to the shape of the archway, and that the light is coming in at the same angle as the shading on the pillars (my poor example doesn't do this).

[Gizmonicgamer]

Most importantly, thanks everyone for their comments and critique!

It think it would be helpful to look up some references for that kind of architecture. I believe a series of arches supported by columns is called an arcade, so I did some googling and ended up with this wiki full of interesting drawings from a french book on architecture.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Dictionary_of_French_Architecture_from_the_11th_to_16th_Century/Volume_1/Blind_Arcade?match=fr

Columns can have plenty of interesting styles. A good picture reference here on the classical orders
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_order

There's a picture of the Santa Sabina here, whch uses composite order columns to support the arches.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Santa_Sabina.JPG

Thanks a lot for the references! I'll see if I can't put them to use. While these are a bit more standard european than I was originally intending (I actually had a bit more of a mayan, maybe indian (or spanish??) kind of style in mind) it's been a great help in defining what exactly I should do.

I'm not sure about this, but I don't think you can get the kinda light effects with a black outline...? The light supposes to be there due to glare, and the idea of having a black line in glaring light didn't seem right in my head. Any takers?

Yeah, it's not done; the background isn't going to be pure white nor is the outline going to be black. I just haven't drawn the background behind that yet, that's all.

The top curvature of the archways could be better too and the few upwards streaks of light at the top seem strange.

Yeah, that curvature bothers me slightly. I've touched upon it slightly, but I'm not sure if I'm going to get too much more out of it. And I wasn't sure what I was doing with anything above the arch itself so I hadn't done anything about those yet; in fact I'm still not absolutely positive about that part, specifically.

To show that the light is coming from the outside to the inside, you could show the light coming through and hitting the floor.

Yeah, I was planning on doing that in-game so that I could add a hint of motion to it as you move through the room, and maybe have it shine on the character as well. But I took your suggestion to heart and in the most recent version I've touched upon it slightly on the floor.




Is this any better? I've added a bit of lighting to the floor and I've started trying to define the archs a bit more (with some help from crab2selout) while trying to retain the more simplistic style I was going for.

Obviously still a WIP; as evidenced by the white bars on the right side where I had to move the pillars because somehow they became uneven while I was copying and pasting them.

C+C please? Any thoughts on the direction thus far? Should I try and study architecture a bit more as to better deal with the archs?

[Gizmonicgamer]

update.

Not sure how I feel about it, really. Especially the angled light source. I'm thinking of maybe undoing that and going with something a bit more centralized, as far as the 'arcade' is concerned.

[Photocopier]

the pillars don't cast shadows? 

[Gizmonicgamer]

Enhanced the shadows on the floor, shaded the top a bit more. Wondering if I should have; I initially imagined it being a bit more clean than this.

[Ben2theEdge]

Right now there is a LOT of ambient light in this image - by ambient light I mean it has no source, it's just there. If the primary light is coming from outside, the side of the pillars facing us should be in shade and they should in turn be casting shadows on the ground.

Areas in the shade should be much lower contrast than areas in direct light. Shadows work differently when there are different amounts of light available. Look at how subtle the details are in the shadowed areas here.

[Gizmonicgamer]

Can you explain where you're seeing ambient lighting? Because the only spots that I can see any are possibly the light coming up from the arcade (the light shouldn't be going up that much?), and the tiles on the floor. The shadows are lower contrast than the light areas, its just that they are contrasted with eachother (as shown in that image)~

[CrazyMLC]

Just a quick edit:

Don't put black outlines when you want something to look like its glowing.
The lack of shadows makes it just look like there's a white patch on the other side of the pillars.

Hope it helps!

[Manupix]

You probably did this before, but in case not, check some refs of cloisters:
http://images.google.fr/images?hl=fr&source=hp&q=cloitre&btnG=Recherche+d%27images&gbv=1

Some have strong direct sunlight, some not (either because of weather, north-facing side, night).

What Ben2theEdge calls 'ambient light' is diffuse light, with 2 possible sources: the sky + reflected light from the ground and walls.
They can be noticeably distinct, mainly by their color as can be seen in some images.


I agree with CrazyMLC about the outlines, though it may depend on your bg.


The arches look weirdly irregular, in a not too realistic way (esp since the columns are very straight).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arch

The keystones look like they recess into the arch (probably a by-product of your circle line): this never happens, they should either be level or project inside.
The stones and joints look much better on the columns than arches.

The paving repeats with a too short interval (at least some elements), and it looks sideways. Maybe this is intentional, but it doesn't fit with the arches.

[TVboyCanti]

You still haven't fixed the black outlines on your backlit pillars, nor have you added the shadows that they should be casting, the two things everyone keeps telling you to change.

[Gizmonicgamer]

You still haven't fixed the black outlines on your backlit pillars, nor have you added the shadows that they should be casting, the two things everyone keeps telling you to change.

As I alluded too before, the outlines stay until a background is determined or completed to a reasonable extent. That's the primary reason they exist in the first place.

Shadows existed behind the pillars, they were just more subtle than I would have liked and did not extend to the brickwork which exists underneath the platform.

Anyway thanks for the comments; I updated it and I think I ended up at least slightly addressing most of the points people brought up.
I tried to neaten out the arch itself somewhat, i strengthened the shadows behind the pillars (although they feel too... angled?)

although I did forget to address the keystone issue that Manupix brought up, I intend on dealing with that soon

probably the two main things that are bugging me now is that it feels as if the openings are too small in relation to the amount of standard dark wallspace and that the "darkness" is suffocating the light
and the angle of the shadows on the bricks

[Gizmonicgamer]

Added some differentiation, finished the main foreground and started on the background (after shifting around some ideas).

Looks pretty okay now, I think. Background still isn't entirely finished so I'm still playing with the outline on the pillars.

EDIT:

Tried finishing the background; upped the lighting/contrast to make it seem more exaggerated as the foreground pillars would suggest but it still doesn't really seem quite right.

C+C?

[Ryumaru]

It may just be me, but I don't know what you could be dissatisfied with. I've noticed that you make a lot of little changes way past the time when changes actually "mattered".
Something that applies to all art forms is that there is a time when you just need to move on.

If you want that next gen "bloom" effect, then you will want to get rid of all outlines of the foreground pillars and replace them with light.

[Gizmonicgamer]

Thanks!  
I can be a little bit too "perfectionist" with my stuff, yeah, it can be a bit bothersome sometimes. But other times its very helpful, so I tend to just roll with it usually. I should probably try and tone it down though. I remember when I first finished the background I was freaking out because I was used to just the white and it looked too "cluttered". I think sometimes I just need to finish and do something else for a while.

It was probably the really light "easter" like effect that the colors had that I was dissatisfied with, so I tried fixing that.


I altered the colors and while I'll probably play with the saturation (its a little saturated for the game at the moment) a little bit later on when I have more done for the game its basically "done" now. As far as "bloom" goes I was planning on having a lighting effect behind the pillars, like rays of sunshine or something.  But thats going to be done in-game. At this point I'm putting it down, unless anyone else have some valid criticism or things they'd like to bring up in which case I might try fixing that.

Thanks for the comment, Ryumaru. Nice to see a familiar face, too; I haven't seen you since you stopped going to PT.

[Mathias]

I do think the result is pretty cool. Good job


a few things,

-Ground tiles don't seem to imply any sort of diminishing perspective, giving a flat look.

-First and last pilllar blend into the walls very oddly. What exactly is going on there? Seems like a little more effort and some archeology ref would benefit things a lot.

-Bg pillars have different spacing, don't occur in groups of four like the foreground and are all white. Why white? The immediately adjacent ground isn't washed in nearly as much light.

-You use dark/black shades in the foreground floor stones yet leave the upper regions, inside, above the pillars, beyond the diffusion of outside light, lighter than those little dark details? I'd expect the upper area to be the darkest of all. My eye is drawn up there for no reason. There are no interesting details in the stonework, just flat nothingness. Feels like an accidental void.