AuthorTopic: Anybody have any questions?  (Read 18952 times)

Offline Helm

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Re: Anybody have any questions?

Reply #40 on: December 14, 2009, 03:14:52 pm
Hey helm.  It's been killing me.  How do we define something like a base being 3/4 top down perspective?  I've been trying and trying but I can't get it right.

I'm not sure what you mean?

Offline bgill31

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Re: Anybody have any questions?

Reply #41 on: December 14, 2009, 04:09:13 pm
I need help showing that a sprite is in top down perspective.  Like in gba rpgs like zelda.

Offline Helm

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Re: Anybody have any questions?

Reply #42 on: December 14, 2009, 06:32:45 pm
I don't have any experience with top-down games but here's a few thoughts.

First of all, the first sprite is top-down enough.

Second, it comes down to context. Make some tiles and mockups and put the character on them with his shadow and whatnot and you'll see if it works or not. For these sorts of games I feel the main character having personality and being distinctive is much more important than perfect technical axonometric projection or whatever. Look at Phantasy Star IV for the Genesis. Those sprites are basically side-view, on a top-down overview and it works fine. I don't think the visual disparity is anything anyone got held up on.

Other users (Gil, Adarias, others) have much more experience with actually drawing these types of sprites, I have never made a sinlge top-down overworld sprite if my memory serves.

Offline Pawige

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Re: Anybody have any questions?

Reply #43 on: December 14, 2009, 06:55:40 pm
If it helps, I've taken a little goblin I've got modeled here and spun him around with a camera looking down at him from 60 degrees up. It might help you visualize it at least, even if you don't follow anything exactly, which I would suggest you do not do.



(BTW, his proportions are close to correct, his feet and hands and head are a bit bigger than a normal human, and the arms a tad long.)

Offline Gil

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Re: Anybody have any questions?

Reply #44 on: December 14, 2009, 08:56:26 pm
I use something aking to side view, but with enough tilt to give it that top down look. Basically, for mid-size sprites, it tends to look better if they're not too much top down. Pawige's render is an excellent example though, if you want the big inclination.

Right now, I use this (30?):

Offline Dr D

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Re: Anybody have any questions?

Reply #45 on: December 19, 2009, 09:49:00 pm
Has anyone noticed that with the RPG views, it doesn't seem to be correct. As in, most objects retain their front view, while the top of the object gets skewed more towards the camera. The front doesn't get skewed away. That may be why I think most sprites in this perspective are more frontal than they are top-down. Is it supposed to be like this? I'm guessing not, but it's a choice that is made to easily convey more important information.

Offline Atnas

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Re: Anybody have any questions?

Reply #46 on: December 19, 2009, 10:33:46 pm
I think a lot of it has to do with the artist's ability to use perspective. That, or it's just so ingrained in the genre that artists use it just because most everything before it has used it. There is the fact that it's a game and it's easier to have the information of entrances, exits, and player locations easy to see... But in most RPGs that doesn't hold water because there's not too much action when you're viewing things from this perspective.

It is still art, though, so it's subject to a lot of stylization in the first place.

The last time I did topdown rpg stuff with buildings I think I did the "correct perspective" on both structures and characters, so take what you will from that!

Offline Dusty

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Re: Anybody have any questions?

Reply #47 on: December 19, 2009, 10:54:40 pm
Honestly, the 'right' perspective on the first example in my opinion looks horrible. It just seems wrong, even if it's not, that the whole back of the roof is missing -- very empty.

Offline Gil

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Re: Anybody have any questions?

Reply #48 on: December 19, 2009, 11:28:08 pm
There's two kinds of perspective used in RPGs, which is something you have to keep in mind. Both are constructed differently. Novice artists use both mixed, don't know what they're doing, though.

First off, you have the perspective you show as "Correct". Orthographic projection, camera pointing 45 down. (Your measurements seem off, but I see you get the point)

There IS another one that's very commonly used and just as correct though. It's a variation of the cavalier perspective. Cavalier is where you take a normal front view (x & y are normal front view) and draw the z axis at a 45 angle out to the left or right to make it visible. The RPG variation draws the Z axis out to the top. The result is the "Traditional/Common RPG view" you reference. You also have to pick a foreshortening ratio for the Z axis (all values are valid, you just pick one and stick with it). Traditionally in RPGs, this value tends to be 1:2, meaning the lines running parallel to the z axis are drawn at 1/2 lenghth. Some go up to 1:1 though (which looks strangely elongated though).This is an equally valid oblique projection.

If my text isn't clear, I'll create some examples. The advantage of the second is that you can show the fronts of buildings normally, sprites are easier to construct, etc.

Offline Jad

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Re: Anybody have any questions?

Reply #49 on: December 20, 2009, 04:50:41 am
Aaand then there's the 'zelda perspective' where you just fudge everything but make sure to keep perspectives that express what is important about the environment.
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