AuthorTopic: Anybody have any questions?  (Read 25119 times)

Offline Jeremy

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Re: Anybody have any questions?

Reply #30 on: December 01, 2009, 06:33:26 am
Not to derail this really interesting discussion, I've got a question about something that's a major obstacle in almost every pixel I do: Large planes (especially flat ones). I almost invariably find myself adding meaningless texture or something to break it up, but that doesn't always work for what I'm trying to do.

How do the rest of you handle large surfaces? Just have the foresight to non include them?  :P



(Fantastic thread btw)

Offline JJ Naas

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Re: Anybody have any questions?

Reply #31 on: December 01, 2009, 09:43:55 am
Not to derail this really interesting discussion, I've got a question about something that's a major obstacle in almost every pixel I do: Large planes (especially flat ones). I almost invariably find myself adding meaningless texture or something to break it up, but that doesn't always work for what I'm trying to do.

(Fantastic thread btw)

That's what I thought I should ask as well. Take the Another World/Out of This World backgrounds. How to balance small areas of high detail against large empty planes?

Offline QuickSilva

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Re: Anybody have any questions?

Reply #32 on: December 02, 2009, 07:33:13 pm
I have a question, how do you, Helm go about creating your volumes for your pixel art? I find it especially hard to visualise at a pixel scale. Maybe my traditional skills need more work but I would still like to hear how you tackle the subject if you have some time. It is quite hard to create realistic volumes at this level and things seem to work better if you go for simplicity in my eyes.

Cheers for reading,
Jason.

Offline Helm

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Re: Anybody have any questions?

Reply #33 on: December 03, 2009, 09:07:10 am
Quicksilva: What I do is pretty simple. In whatever I draw which I will then fully shade or color (meaning I don't do this for comic art, which is very high contrast and has different inking and shading tropes most of the time)  after I have my general shapes and lineart pretty much there I faux-3d render it by hand. Meaning I actually connect tris from point to point and make the geometry more complex step by step.

I mocked something up very fast because I should actually be doing comics instead of tutorials, but a few images are worth more than just dry text. Let's take the below doodle:



Then I start doing this, just more detailed. Once you're used to it a bit it's pretty mindless. I might not go to as much detail for simpler bits where I know how I'll behave. The key point in all of this isn't to just do this every time, it's to *think* it even when you're not doing it. Abstraction of something we're used to think as a bunch of symbols to pure geometric planes. Less polygons are better than more polygons.



Then select just a few shades and group polygons that, according to the lightsource would be closer to the same shade than the next jump towards darker or brighter. This is pretty basic, they teach this at any fine art course (of course not this computery and much more proficiently, but I learned by myself pretty much so)



I won't keep going for the whole thing, just some explanations of how I handle basic volumes. Once all value range has been applied then according to whatever style I'm going for I might blend between triangles or I might not. In pixel art that's usually where I start dithering between clusters.



This is the later without the lineart. Obviously there needs to be more of a bridge between the higher values and the middle values, like 2-3 colors but I don't have the time to do this, I hope the concept is clear enough as it is.


Offline QuickSilva

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Re: Anybody have any questions?

Reply #34 on: December 03, 2009, 04:28:45 pm
Thanks Helm for the explanation and for taking the time to show it so clearly (complete with nice drawings, much appreciated :) ) I`ve seen people doing a similar technique before but you`ve just made it so much clearer. I must give this method a try. Thanks again. I have a feeling that it is going to be trickier than it looks though... Incidentally, do you do any 3D modelling that you base this technique on?

Jason.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 07:15:07 pm by QuickSilva »

Offline Helm

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Re: Anybody have any questions?

Reply #35 on: December 04, 2009, 09:03:15 am
no, not at all. Which is why also my faux-wireframe looks so bad in realistic 3d modelling terms.

The key thing for this approach to work is the next step after you have the wireframe. It's when you choose 2-3 tones and have to 'group' polys together by approximation and say 'these'll all be darkest shade, these middle shade, these highlight'. That's where the most intuitive jumps your brain will do are, but ONLY if the piece is solid on that level, when you go in and add more intermediate shades, will the piece retain its solidness.

Offline Manupix

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Re: Anybody have any questions?

Reply #36 on: December 12, 2009, 08:11:51 pm
Got one, not pixel specific though.

@ Ben2theEdge: what is negative space?
(I'm asking you specifically because from the search I did, it looks you actually mention it the most, but I'll gladly read anybody else's views too!)

I've been reminded of it about a piece in my PJ gallery (sorry to link to my own work, just convenient here) (wink @ ska!).
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/48570.htm

I feel I got the point about composition in that piece (have I?), but the general notion is eluding me.

Is there more to it than "a nice empty space for good composition"?

Offline Jeremy

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Re: Anybody have any questions?

Reply #37 on: December 13, 2009, 01:52:16 am
I'll have a go at an answer, as my Art teacher's tried to beat it into my skull :P

Negative space is the detail-less bit around the tree, often the "negative" of the colours next to it. Wikipedia

In that piece that ska linked to the negative space plays a really big part, if the house were to just have a same-width border around the idea of the piece would not be conveyed. You've almost got that going on in your piece but it could be more drastic, something like this

THe eye immediately sees black in the sea of pale pink, then zooms further to the red and then is like "Oh cool, it's a bird"

It's just about balance of emptiness and detail to convey your message :)
« Last Edit: December 13, 2009, 01:54:54 am by Jeremy »

Offline bgill31

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Re: Anybody have any questions?

Reply #38 on: December 13, 2009, 05:57:07 am
Hey helm.  It's been killing me.  How do we define something like a base being 3/4 top down perspective?  I've been trying and trying but I can't get it right.

Here are some of my previous tries



I think I'm starting to get it with my latest




I thought the shading would be more rounded if viewed from the top.

Offline Manupix

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Re: Anybody have any questions?

Reply #39 on: December 13, 2009, 11:36:21 am
Thanks Jeremy!
Shame on me for not having searched wikipedia.  :(